Part of

« Break up the Rockies: Colorado takes 3-0 NLCS lead | Main | News: Cardinals expected to make a run at Rowand »

Monday, October 15, 2007


I look forward to reading more of Savery's blog. I was thoroughly entertained by the minor league blog written during the year by the Padres' Dirk Hayhurst. It's an interesting perspective and a great look into the world of professional baseball. Thanks for linking it.

How has Costanzo fielding been. I know he has been an all or nothing batter, but what have been the reports about his field work. Would he be a liability at 3rd?

Also, not to be too redundant but please support our cause: Sign the petition for the Phillies & new ownership courtship.

Go to this site & sign!:

Still very raw but improving. What most don't know is Costanzo played very little third before the Phillies drafted him.

Do they broadcast these games on or

b_a_p, in reponding to you from the previous thread, you need glasses.

The article on the Rockies originally appeared on 6/1/2006.

Check the USA Today archives.

As a matter of fact, here's the link:

You'll note the date is contained therein.

"get real, guys. the comment by "bob" was the only completely unconstructive comment on the whole rockies/religion controversy. nobody in this topic was bashing religion."

bathtub, amen!

This blog has a disturbing nature to favor knee-jerk, uniformed, and pithy one sentence comments over actual analysis. Bob clearly had no idea what we were talking about, and said nothing at all related to the argument, or that referenced the article. No one even remotely "bashed" religion."

He then gets a "right on" from RSB, followed by Jason's endorsement of that "right on." If you don't want to talk about the issue, then don't, but don't stifle discussion when you don't have an informed opinion.

And RSB, this comment is so beside the point that it is hilarious:

"When you watch the games, they act like baseball players. I don't see crosses being waved in anyone's faces, or 'John 3:16' scrawled on batting gloves."

You know what, I never saw anyone at the Texaco gas station call someone the "n-word", but when I heard that this was common practice at executive board meanings, I decided to take my business elsewhere.

The fact that the Rockies have a discriminatory hiring practice based on religion is worthy of discussion. You and Jason need to get your heads out of your asses and see what is going on, or refrain from commenting. Your posts on the issue are an embarrasment.

AWH, I was looking at the date on the top right-hand side of the article. I didn't see the date underneath the headline. But, as I've already said, the date is immaterial. As you are generally an intelligent poster, you surely don't believe that the absence of a lawsuit proves the team has done nothing wrong.

If the team has a policy of hiring players based on religion, then they are breaking the law. This is a matter of black & white, for which there's no room for debate. Just read the statute. Now, whether or not the Rocies are actually doing this is a different story. Just because some writer makes an assertion does not make it true. The Rockies could very well point to their success this year as evidence that they hire players based on ability, not religion.

Those interested in Howard's actual consistency vs. their own perception of said consistency may want to check out the work of Kahneman and Tversky et. al., the authors of, for instance, the hot hand in basketball and other works in the psychology of prediction and probability judgment. Statistical and probabilistic thinking is a relatively new feature of the intellectual landscape, and their work consistently shows how we err in our perception of probability.

Where do I get a Peoria Saguaros hat? Sure to be a great conversation starter.

Kdon: Lighten up.

"Holiday still hasn't touched home plate"

Yeah, big deal. And enough already. Any reasonably well-informed fan knows that (1) umps blow calls all the time -it's a part of the game; (2) the Pods put the ump in a position to decide the WC; (3) the Rocks won fair and square.

ae: Saw your link from last post and am only now commenting. I'm surprised, frankly, because I think if you polled the average Phillies fan, they'd suggest Howard is remarkably streaky. It turns out, he's not, at least not when compared to the other top power hitters.

I, personally, think it's a good thing. It shows Howard's power likely isn't limited to small bunches against bad pitchers or during just home games.

I guess I could be reading too much into this, but it's not likely a bad thing.

curt: Point 3 is certainly worthy of discussion. :-) Fair in square usually involved calling players safe only when they touch the plate. They won, the umps made a mistake, it happens... let's leave it at that.

er... in = and

cj - the mistake wasn't the Rocks fault. They played by the rules until the umps said game over - that's winning fair and square. Ir might be different if the Rocks paid the umps to blow the call.

"Sometimes, I wonder whether this league actually exists, or whether it’s fabricated by Baseball America and to sell copies and drive traffic during the off-season."

I kind of wonder the same thing. On a more serious note, I wonder if the additional wear/tear on a prospect out ways any benefit they get in playing in the AFL.

Seems to me that an athlete would benefit from rest or at the very least engaging in different forms of physical activity than baseball.

I have heard from orthopedic surgeons that you are seeing much higher incidences of certain types of injuries due to teen playing the same sport year-round and not giving their bodies a chance to rest.

I wonder if they converted Matsui to a Christian religion?

curt: There's a difference between saying the Rockies are to blame and saying it wasn't fair. I'm not blaming Colorado. They are the beneficiaries of a bad call.

the rockies practice with regards to Christianity is just plain wrong, and certainly has motivated me to root against them more than I otherwise would have.

Moreover, it is absolutely worthy of discussion. Whether they discriminate or not, the rockies have essentally adopted a particular faith and branded themselves with it. That doesn't belong in the workplace, and I am disgusted by it.

Also, I don't think anyone was bashing religion. That said, I believe people have a right to if they so choose.

Just watch out if they win tonight, cause we'll have to hear about god helped them do it (cause apparently this alleged entity loves them more than the d-backs).

Right on elliott...

anyways, i agree it's time to forget about the holliday call. does anyone really believe the rockies aren't a better team than the padres? the best teams should be in the playoffs, and it worked out as it should.

Enough. Tied of rehashing the stupid religion comments over and over again.

I was really, really, really hoping this stupid discussion over the Rockies religion of choice didn't spread over to a new thread.

But I wasn't quite that lucky.

Who cares? So some sportswriters think the Rockies discriminate based on religion. Then let someone sue. Until then, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Yeah, we should all know how I feel by now (after all i introduced the article on this blog), but I'm ready to let it die.

Let's get back to baseball.

Anyone know how bad the mathieson setback is?

"As you are generally an intelligent poster, you surely don't believe that the absence of a lawsuit proves the team has done nothing wrong."

b_a_p, one question: Which society do you live in, the fantasy world without lawyers, or the United States of America, where law schools have graduated 3 people for every 2 jobs available since 1970?

Consequently, we live in a litigation society, where plastic bags have to have warnings printed on them to limit the manufacturer's liability in case some moron pulls one over his head, and lawyers hire PIs to investigate companies and interview people BEFORE a lawsuit is filed.

You are a generally intelligent poster as well, but you comment wreaks of foolish naivete.

Excuse me, reeks of foolish...

And to all of you who feel that the Rockies' and religion is worthy of discussion, I agree.

What I wrote was that your ""righteous indignation" was a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing".

CJ, thanks! (Blah, blah,blah...).

Back to baseball:

Jason, your comment:

"GM Pat Gillick said it won’t, but he’s not to be trusted"

is unusually harsh, for you. Normally, you are much more reserved and diplomatic.

Are you saying that in his time with the Phillies he has contracted the dreaded disease that afflicts other members of management?

I believe it's called "ANTS": Amaro Non-Truth Syndrome.

AWH: Hmmmm... I'm not sure it's a specific indictment of Gillick. It seems to me that management in general should not be trusted because they don't get paid to tell the media or the fans the truth. Gillick's job is to find the best players to put on the field. If he thinks he can generate some kind of leverage by saying his young guys aren't in the plans, he'll say it whether it's true or not.

Anyone have an injury update on Mathieson? I know that he ended his rehab stint after a setback but have not heard anything about the severity or implications for next season.

AWH: I'd like to get back to talking baseball too. But just because we live in a litigious society doesn't mean that, if there hasn't been a lawsuit, there wasn't a wrong. There are countless reasons why a lawsuit might not have happened.

Again, I express no opinion on whether this stuff about the Rockies is or is not true. But the fact that there hasn't been a lawsuit means nothing.

I want Lowell.

Spend the $.

Does anyone have the link from a while back to watch MLB online, I lost the link.


bap - Even if there hasn't been a lawsuit yet, I'd imagine that this is the sort of thing that the ACLU would be all over.

Of course, if the Rockies make the World Series, this story will probably get bigger (especially if they win the NLCS in 4 or 5 games, leading to a bunch of time to fill with various 'Meet The Rockies' profiles).

AWH: I wouldn't call it harsh. We've seen Gillick downplay certain things in the past, including whether the 2007 team would compete. He said they wouldn't. I wouldn't take what he has to say about prospects seriously. They have several good pitchers.

curt: They won because of a blown call. End of story.

Jason: I have two words for you: Tuffy Goosewisch.

honestly, if the phillies started marketing themselves as a religious team or associating themselves with any religion it would be a huge turnoff. if they were as heavy handed about as the rockies i would probably go to fewer games.
as for lawsuits, sports appear to operate in a different world. for example, a guy couldn't sue for wrongful dismissal if he was released and a similarly qualified guy was kept on.
but lets talk indians. i love this team. kenny lofton is an all-time favorite of mine and their fans are the real deal. an old industrial city that can draw real fans to their games. the drum guy. the love lofton gets as the link to their glory years. its perfect. none of this trumped up red sox marketing BS. curse of the bad accents or whatever it was.

Clout: Huh. They must have made a last-minute switch at catcher and Tim Gradoville wasn't available. Thanks. Now doing the catching for Saguaros: Tuffy Gosewisch.

Moses would not have made that mistake.

clout: please tell me that tuffy has a shot at making it. somehow, someway...i want to see that name in lights!

hey - random thought of the day...
is Citizens Bank Park the only ballpark that doesn't play that goddamn annoying "everybody clap yo' hands!" song to get the crowd into the game??
we've heard it countless times at Shea, i've heard it so far tonight at Cleveland and in the past at Coors field. either way i hate that goddamn beat. and, to top it off, they just played Rocky on the big screen at Jacobs field to get the crowd into it for the 9th inning. Cleveland sucks.

[honestly, if the phillies started marketing themselves as a religious team or associating themselves with any religion it would be a huge turnoff.]

The thing to understand about the Rockies situation is that Colorado has an interesting religious demographic. Colorado Springs is the evangelical capital of the world. Tom Tancredo's congressional district is adjacent, to the south, to the city. Without speaking to any normative or legal matter, the Colorado franchise represents its state in this way. Among other things, that may partly explain why it's not a story.

I think it's an interesting phenomena and should be discussed, but we'll could be a little more civil to one another. This antagonism is unnecessary.

Go Indians. Maybe Bill Simmons will finally shut-up.

Boy, I'm watching this guy Borowski pitch against the Red Sox.

I don't think he could have helped the Phils in '07. (S)

please, those 1-2-3 innings are so overrated

diggitydave - They do (occasionally) play the 'Everybody clap your hands' thing at CBP. I hate it.

Amen stjoehawk (no double meaning intended)...I hate the "Everybody clap your hands."

apparently Kaz Matsui does, in fact, get hits against other teams besides the phillies.
i see most people are cheering on the rockies on beerleaguer... is anyone else a little pissed about the fact that they eliminated us, coupled with the fact that EVERYONE is a rockies fan now?
the worst thing now is having to deal with people from Colorado who all of a sudden are rockies fans. they couldn't have cared less, even 1 month ago...

I am absolutely rooting against the rockies. the fact that they beat us is certainly enough reason. i am surprised this isn't obvious to everyone.

diggity - I was rooting against the Rockies, and I will in the WS. But I think they could give us the first exciting world series since, what?, DBacks Yanks? The DBacks would give us a boring WS.

i agree with you actually. a rockies-indians world series would be really interesting on many levels.
still, there's some part of me that just doesn't like the rox at all.

wow - is anyone else watching this game??
the home run was really, really clutch, but Chip Caray's call on the homer was god-awful!! plus, the announcers have all conceded this inning multiple times the fact that the rockies have swept the d-backs already...

The Dbacks are not done just yet - how in the world did Upton get a triple out of that hit - he's got mad speed!

Chip is a fool. I suppose the Rockies were up 5 with 6 outs to go, though. It would take a very unlikely collapse. OTOH, it's the playoffs and, even if it weren't, you don't talk like they were in the 7th.

They were up 5 with four outs to go and now just 2 with 3 outs to go, but with the way the Rockies have been given every close call by the umpires over the last 4 weeks, I think there is very little chance that will suddenly change in the 9th.

Pinch-hitter, Chris Young, Stephen Drew, Byrnes comin up in the top of the 9th.
The d-backs will make this interesting I think.

a 3-0 pop-up??!?!!?!

That is unforgivable.

I hope Byrnes homers.

I need more drama in my life. I'm sick of waiting for my LSAT score to get back, and the Flyers have too many days off.

What was Drew doing there swinging on a 3-0 count?

Way to swing at the first pitch.

Why aren't they playing Prince?

The Rox made that look easy

Sure, Colorado's fans are happy. But, this would mean so, so much more to us as Phils fans. Oh well.

I hope they lose in 7 games.

well so much for that.
I won't be rooting for the rockies in the series, but they definitely, definitely deserve it.

Heh, why does the crowd almost seem disinterested?

Man, we should be doing this.

But it's so easy to be a Rockies fan, so of course they come off looking good. Ignore your team until September 15th or so, and then they give you absolutely nothing to complain about for four weeks.

break out the holy water!!!!...i mean champagne.

I hope the AL team destroys this club - I have despised them ever since they wouldn't get off their duffs to help their ground crew the way the Phillies did! Go Indians or Sox, whoever!

Also, why the hell are they playing 90's dance pop?

"Tonight is the night, is the night of love/together forever, I can't get enough."


has anyone noticed how dumb todd helton sounds? not just tonight either. i think he's a little slow.

I think Taveras put it best: "Every hero new day"

At least it isn't the Yankees

is that OUR Bill Giles? What a bumbling moron...

Giles definately said Colorado Raw-ees

He's probably smarter than Dusty Baker.

I guess Bill Giles likes his October vacations to other cities so much that he doesn't want to hand out the trophy in Philly. I am beyond sick of this team. Go Indians.

And that's the weakest locker room celebration I've ever seen. It's probably sparkling cider.

ESPN is going on and on about the Rockies home advantage, but still no on mentions Holliday's splits:

301/374/485 - 11 HR

376/435/722 - 25 HR

Guess which one occurred in 81 games in Colorado?

Sophist - i'm hoping the statistic you mentioned will be one of the deciding factors that enables J-roll to win the MVP. That, coupled with J-roll's enormous advantage over Holliday in two out of the five tools (speed, defense) should, IMO, mean Jimmy wins the MVP this year.
It's also worth noting again that the MVP has already been voted for, so the subsequent games after the regular season ended have no bearing on the final outcome.

Let's hope JRoll wins - the Rockies have gotten enough over these last couple of weeks.

diggity - the journalists don't care about the home advantage. they don't. they may have cared about Colorado pre-humidor, but none of those dudes will see this stat and think twice. they will see holliday's ave., his rbi title, his slide, and his hits. holliday will win.

Where's Clout in all of this, to remind us that "Matt Holliday has still not touched home plate"?

Just look at that difference in SLG!!! That is ridiculously stupid.


As for Colorado's "great" fans, they drew 2.3 million to the Phillies' 3.1, 57% of the capacity. MMM sour grapes.

No wonder everyone wanted the Pads to win. The Rox made all of these games look like formalities.

Well, thankfully that brief, forgettable moment in sports history, that LCS snoozefest, has come to a quick and relatively painless end.

I'm not usually a Bill Simmons fan, but I did get a chuckle out of this comment from his recent column:

No matter how much you love baseball, it's nearly impossible to care about the Colorado-Arizona series. You might watch it, you might enjoy it, you might even gamble on it ... but unless you're an absolute baseball nut or a Rockies/D-backs fan, how could you honestly care who wins when neither franchise is older than Jamie-Lynn Spears? It's like going to a wedding in which you don't know anything about the bride or the groom.


Who the hell cares about either team? I'm convinced that sports is all about history. If there's history, it's interesting. If not, who cares? People need the emotional attachment that comes from a lifetime of cheering for the same team -- and especially when their parents rooted for the same franchise."

Of course, that's easy for someone from New England to say, because you basically breathe sports history up there.

laramie - that column just proves that Simmons isn't a baseball fan, only a useless homer with an over-rated knowledge of the popular trivial. Having the Rockies in the WS greatly increases its entertainment value because they are a much better and more competitive team than the DBacks.

I generally prefer historic teams as well. I was rooting for a Phils/Cubs LCS. But honestly, if what we are looking for is true history, the best you can ask for right now is Rockies/AL Team, because history can only be made this year through a highly entertaining WS, and the DBacks would not have offered it.

I'd prefer the Phils or Cubs be the best team in the NL this year, but it's clearly the Rockies. So despite their purple unis, 6 straight losing seasons, and 14 years of history, I think they should be in the WS and I care that they are.

No question that the Rox deserve the trip to the WS. They have been unstoppable.

The Sporting News announced its postseason awards, and Jimmy Rollins, who figures to be a top finisher for National League MVP, was not named the league's best shortstop by his peers.

That honor went to Florida's Hanley Ramirez.

Chase Utley and Aaron Rowand were named the leagues best second baseman and one of the league's best three outfielders, respectively. But it's certainly interesting that the players didn't pick Rollins, although Ramirez also had a tremendous season. But I wouldn't fret too much. I don't think that means much as far as where Rollins will finish in the NL MVP race.

Ira: I'm shocked on two counts. First that Ramirez topped Rollins. Rollins was better than him in all offensive categories save BA, 2Bs and SBs and is clearly the superior defender.

The other shocker is Rowand. They picked him over Pence & Soriano? This sounds more like a popularity contest.

Hippo: I believe Tuffy's mother's name was Goose and his father's name was Liverwisch. To avoid confusion with a sandwich, they combined the names into Goosewisch.

Ramirez was better than Rollins in all 3 of BA/OBP/SLG... although Rollins is a lot better on D

clout - Ramirez also topped Rollins in OBP and SLG.

I agree that Rollins is the superior defensive player, but I don't know if that's enough to make up for Ramirez seeming to have a better year at the plate in 2007.

Took waaaay too long to type that & beaten to the punch by Dave X.

@Tuffy Gosewisch: despite salivating at the name for the perverse Beerleaguer love of messing with peoples' appellations, Mr. G will probably make no Phillies appearances in his short minor league career. There are too many other catchers in the system who have better skills and better prospects. (Marson, Jaramillo, and even D'Arnaud come to mind).

@The faith thing: I want to say a few things before I will never address it again.
1) I view the whole thing as a marketing ploy by Colorado management - whether they're marketing their brand of semi-christian belief or their baseball team may be up for grabs, but they definitely make their noise to get people to buy in to something.
2) The way that it will effect them, if they intensify their efforts to make their players follow their faith expectations, is in the re-signing of players and the acquisition of FAs. Eventually, they may discover that it costs them more to get players willing to put up with the stuff they do. (Wouldn't you rather play in Philadelphia in 1993?)
3) What the owners do with any team is, actually, their choice. If some team decided they were gonna wear pink and lavender uniforms, they could. It would not be a good choice, but they could do it. They could change their name to the Denver "My-Little-Ponies," and it would be stupid, but within their rights.
4) There are many people with strong faith practices who consider themselves Christian who are deeply offended by the type of ostentatious faith-waving triumphalism shown by the Rockies upper management. You can be a follower of Jesus and still want the Rox to lose. Badly.
5) I am deeply sorry for bringing this up, now that the thread seems to have evolved beyond it, and hope that NO ONE answers me, or especially asks questions or otherwise gets the whole thing started again. And I hope when Jason starts a new thread, we can leave it behind and talk about important things like how Tuffy got his FIRST name.

In re: the best *shortstop*
In a close game, in a down to the wire pennant race, who would you want actually playing the position of shortstop? Jimmy "Comes to Play" Rollins or Hanley "I Love Making Errors Against the Mets" Ramirez?

Weitzel: "They have several good pitchers."

And some possibilities we do not hear much about. IMHO: at least one of the staff from Williamsport will develop significantly this year with good prospects for future Major League duty in the near future. Watch for Naylor, Brummett, Chance Chapman or Kissock. They are all big righties with good peripherals.

The comments to this entry are closed.

EST. 2005

Top Stories


Rotoworld News

Follow on Twitter

Follow on Facebook

Contact Weitzel