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Thursday, October 25, 2007


Weitzel- good timing on this piece, as I did a Thirsty Thursday on my blog comparing Grand Pappy Moyer to Yuengling beer.

that's a great photo. it looks like they took some kid's homecoming picture and stuck it in one of those computer programs to age it 25 years.

Typical St. Joes guy.

The most optimistic piece on a 45 year-old pitcher I've ever seen. But I agree that Matthew Broderick - er, Jamie Moyer, is a solid starter and it'll be good to watch his craftsmanship at work again next season. I liken him to being the Jim Eisenreich of pitchers; a modest, quiet guy with marginal skills, but who endears himself to the fans by doing everything with textbook correctness on and off the field.

Clout: In response to:

"Parker: How would you compare the performance of the Phillies hitters against the Rockies with the Red Sox hitters?"

I'm not really sure what your comment means. Regardless, my point is that making a statement like "The Red Sox are obviously a better team," while only referring to the number of runs they put up in a single game against a pitcher who was horrible (One start), is silly. The Phillies pounded Francis twice, but did not in the third game. Just because the Red Sox pounded Francis on a night where he looked like Eude Brito is not justification for making a statement like the one above. I would agree with anyone who suggests that the Red Sox probably have a better team overall, but not because of the lineup, but because of the pitching (starters #'s 2-4, and bullpen). This is of course not to suggest that the Phillies would not be capable of beating the Red Sox in a given series. Of course that could be said of any team. Ultimately, I would give the Red Sox the advantage based on pitching, not the lineup. And there is no basis for comparing Beckett and Hamels except regular season statistics.

Curt: Comparing Hamels' one post season start stats against Beckett's career playoff stats is ridiculous. Beckett has had bad post season starts and he has had plenty of bad regular season starts. One game is too small a sample size to determine anything. That being said, I stand by my comment that Hamels and Beckett are a wash in a given hypothetical 7 game matchup. Again I would say the Sox have the advantage over the Phillies after Hamels. And either way, one starter gets you only one win per start, assuming he does win.

I'm a big fan of Moyer too. The way he plays head games with young hitters is terrific too... stepping off the rubber, throwing to first, just all kinds of tricks to get guys off their timing and make them impatient at the plate.

He isn't going to win any Cy Young awards and he's going to get lit up occasionally, but very rarely does he give you no chance to win a baseball game. You could do a heck of a lot worse that far down the rotation, and it looks like the young pitchers, especially Cole, seem to respect him and try to learn from him.

Beckett has had bad post season starts

actually, he hasn't. he's had a bad postseason start (in a game his team won).

I'm not trying to get into this argument here, but it really is incredible how good he's been in the postseason. since giving up 6 runs in 6 IP vs Chicago in 2003, he's gone 6-1 in 8 games with a 1.06 ERA and 68 K and 8 BB in 59 IP. his opponent batting line is .148/.188/.232. he's got the best WHIP of any pitcher, ever, with at least 40 postseason innings - 0.74.

I believe I saw this morning that Beckett has the 3rd best ERA of all-time in the postseason. Mariano Rivera was #1 and I think Schilling was #6. Boston's lucky to have him - if you recall, he was pretty close to being dealt to Texas that off-season for Blalock and a few others before that deal fell apart. If Annibal Sanchez comes back healthy and with the strides Hanley Ramirez is taking, you can't say it was a terrible trade for the Marlins and certainly better than what Texas would've given them.

bentz, I don't think anyone was ever suggesting that. I think people were saying it was a terrible trade for Boston as recently as last year. but with Lowell's good performance and Beckett's adjustment to the AL & Fenway park, it seems to have ended up being pretty good for both teams.

It will go down as one of the fairest trades ever, certainly. Custom fit for the needs of each club.

Right, I wasn't claiming that anyone was thinking it was a bad trade for anyone (though my verbiage may have indicated that). And yes, there was a point where last year you could give Florida the advantage. Now it's pretty balanced. Just much better than what Texas would have given up to get him, but even with Beckett, Texas would still not be a playoff team so it wouldn't have been as noticeable.

Looks like that deal was Beckett and Lowell to Texas for Blalock and either John Danks or Thomas Diamond. Danks ended up going to Chicago for Brandon McCarthy and Diamond missed all of 2007 because of Tommy John surgery. Again, Florida made the better deal with Boston.

RSB: Personality wise, Eisenrich is dead on, but performance, Moyer is far and away more valuable than Eisy ever was.

The batter I'd compare him to: Bernie Williams, Kenny Lofton ... someone like that. Not a HOF guy, but a guy who's been a veteran forever and can up his game when necessary.

Parker: I actually have to concede that you probably aren't that far off in saying that Beckett and Cole are even, when you look at regular season stats. Beckett was certainly better, but not so much so that it would be a complete mismatch. Of course, Beckett has been close to unhittable this postseason, so I think that almost everyone on this board, if their life depended on one game, would choose Beckett over Hamels very quickly. But their stats weren't far off this year:

Beckett: 20-7, 200 IP, 194 K, 40 BB, 3.27 ERA, 1.14 WHIP, 145 ERA+

Hamels: 15-5, 183 IP, 177 K, 43 BB, 3.39 ERA, 1.12 WHIP, 136 ERA+

Hamels was ALMOST as good as Beckett this year. Which is pretty damn impressive. Because he missed a few weeks down the stretch, we shouldn't forget just how good Hamels was this year, and hopefully, he can stay healthy and be even better next year.

I like Jamie Moyer. I'm more than willing to give him another season on the rubber as the 4th or 5th starter.

He'll get us our innings and can keep us in most games. What he did to clinch the division is enough for me to believe he belongs on this team if he wants to pitch next year.

Jamie Moyer is far from our biggest problem.

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