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Sunday, September 23, 2007


@ everyone involved in the cat-fight in the previous thread, because it disturbs me to have us fighting amongst ourselves, and because I didn't realize JW had posted a new thread, a modest proposal (slightly edited for grammar and clarity):

Going into critical reasoning prof mode here (since I am one sometimes), the simple way to avoid all of this is to just *not* engage in ad homeniem remarks against one another. For those who don't know the terminology, an explanation:

Saying "I disagree" or "I think you're wrong" is an attack against someone else's position, but not against them personally. That's fine. There is nothing wrong with attacking each other's positions; that's what arguing is about doing.

Saying 'You consistently miss this point" is a little more ambiguous, but as long as *the point* is what's at stake, we're still good.

However, saying "you're an idiot" or some such definitely crosses the line between objecting to someone's beliefs and attacking them personally.

So the simple way to keep things civil is to stay on *this side* of that line. If you're so frustrated you can't do it, wait, cool off, then post your reasoned objections later. Really, its that simple. All it takes is a little self-discipline on everyone's part.

And Parker, good for you for not taking it personally, but you would have been entirely justified in doing so given the language that was used.

Ed K

put all that aside.....lets go Phils. everyone can agree on that.

anybody know what kind of pitch count cole is on today?


Is Walter Johnson going to be at the game today?

Bullpen update:

Myers - 5 games in 5 days (6.0 IP - 82 pitches); 8 games in 9 days (9.0 IP - 136 piches)

Gordon - 5 games in 5 days (4.2 IP - 56 pitches); 8 games in 9 days (7.2 IP - 97 piches)

Romero - 5 games in 5 days (4.0 IP - 58 pitches); 9 games in 10 days (6.2 IP - 103 piches)

Geary - 4 games in 5 days (5.0 IP - 58 pitches); 5 games in 7 days (7.0 IP - 101 piches)

Condrey - 4 games in 6 days (2.1 IP - 53 pitches)

Durban and Davis - 2 days off

Mesa - 4 days off

Alfonseca, Rosario, Castro - 5 days off

Ennis - 10 days off

Are there some pre-game festivities at RFK delaying this game? 'Cause I tuned in for a game and am instead getting a Charlie Manuel puff piece.

will this game ever start? are they replaying the clubhouse show?

*Yawn* nothing like baseball at 9 am...but I wouldn't miss the last game at RFK for anything. Although, what's this? They announce the starting time as 12:05 TE, and now I get Ron Hansen and Dick Bosman.

Ed K, that's a very useful post. It probably should be pasted at the beginning of every thread on Beerleaguer.

Hamels can't be expected to go more than 5/6 innings today, so prepare to see the usual suspects at the end, plus possibly the reinstated Alfo.

(Make that ET.)

@RSB Thanks.

I missed a cat fight????

Guess that means I don't have much reason to go back and read the rest of that thread.

One guess... it was about Coste?

Honestly, this team has much more interesting things to discuss than whether or not Coste is cutting it right now. And if it wasn't about Coste... well, then ignore what I just wrote ;-)

Rusty: Good post. They need Hamels to go deep into the game, which is unlikely as this is only his second start since DL. Myers, Gordon & Romero are unavailable. That means we need enough runs to allow for some Mesa-Ennis-Alfonseca innings.

Ed K: How about this one, "Your opinion is so devoid of logic or intelligence and so ignorant of the facts that it is a shock to even see such mindless garbage posted here"?

@ Rusty: Somehow, humm, those stats, including who's had days off, also goes a long way towards explaining the sudden consistency of the bullpen.

@clout: *laughs*

God how many pitches did he just throw for a 123 inning? This doesn't seem like a bad thing to me if he keeps doing that.

Anyone see how Batista caught that pop-up all smooth and then kept running to the dugout...except that it was the Phillies dugout?! Oops.

This is a game I'd rather not watch. In three hours, I'd like to see 8-2 Phils win, confirming they took care of business like they were supposed to.

just said cole's pitch count is about 80-85.

but you are going to watch it, aren't you JW?

RSB, I read a report that Cole may be able to go more than that. Have you heard something else? I would certainly understand it.

Dang it Cole is already off on locating his changeup. Hard to be frustrated in the first inning.

He got on base, but Cole's breaking ball looked pretty nasty during that at-bat.

ok 4 pitch walk not five straight balls

You have to worry about the back of the BP here. CGs and such are always unlikely, but at some point the Phillies need to take a risk with Alfie, Rosario, or Castro, however bad that might sound... end-of-season abuse has much longer lasting effects. For example, Friday's game, the Phillies were up 3, Myers has been used hard lately... even Ennis or Eaton or Durbin would've come out with a S in that spot.

These Phils rarely "take care of business." They are more likely to beat someone Hudson 8-2 in a few days rather than do it today.

Double play, Nice work fellas.


And then disaster strikes. Crap.

X - fortunately the Phils are off tomorrow, so I expect all those guys to be available today. That day off could be golden for this team.

This is exactly what I've been afraid of when everyone has been talking about this matchup. *sighs*

Ed K: This is a good test for Jason. Does he watch the Phillies or does he watch the Eagles?

'disaster' is a bit strong, parker.

Oh, well 1 run. Cole needs to get it together.

anybody worried about hamels health, or is it just rust?

Whoo-hoo -- an opportunity for our 46th come from behind victory.

It's just never easy.

parker - true. he certainly has looked rusty these past 4 innings. The National's lineup tonight is pretty weak (as was the STL lineup earlier this week), so he picked two good teams to sharpen up against.

@ clout: Watching the Eagles right now sort of feels like watching the Phillies usually does, doesn't it?

does being down 1-0 after 1 inning and then winning count as a come from behind victory?

Anyone catching these phucked up commercials on, i'm not sure if its the Nats network or has its own commercials. What's crazy is how risque some of these are: the at&t commercials that starts with a bombing in beirut (a little classless for a commercial, no?) or the one with frank thomas hitting his kids? Jesus!

Ryan, at the moment, we could really use your 43rd hr not the all time strike out record pls, k thx.

@sophist: yes.

umm, ry, not what I had in mind.

oh god "his next two pitches will probably be out of the strike zone if he's going to continue his trend of having a 3-2 count on every hitter....yep" LMAO

Really unhappy with this ump. I hope he starts giving Cole those pitches.

He has a few strike-outs, but they all could easily be walks. He's throwing well on 3-2 counts, and there he got the call.

Hanrahan's cutting that fastball away from the hitters and keeping it down. Impressive so far.

Why do the Phils hit bad pitchers poorly, but good pitchers well?

This is another ST Louis game where they had lots of rookies and beat us in extra innings

Have the Phils faced Hanrahan before?

yes! That's what Cole needs to be doing.

Ok, that looked like old Cole.

Sophist, it's one of those strange Phillies mysteries.

Ok, runs would be nice. Good pitching by Cole. That looked like your typical Cole inning.

Parker, they faced Hanrahan before. The Phils beat him 4-2 on August 16th. He went 5 innings and gave up 2 runs on 4 hits. He had 8 Ks and 4 BB.

I think the Phils must put in double overtime scouting the top arms in the NL. They are accustomed to knowing them inside and out. Then when these random rooks come up to face them, they're like .. whaaaaa???

fljerry - Except the Cards started Wainwright that game, who is one of the better pitches in the league in the second half this year. That STL lineup only score one run against Moyer et. al., but at least then there was more reason to believe the opposing pitcher could shut the Phils down.

Not only Howard, but are the Phils closing in on a strikeout record? It's amazing that they have scored so many runs this year without putting the ball in play more. Seems like they have struck out 100 times this series.

I am thinking of contacting the Nationals and telling them that they have the most annoying play-by-play guy ever. My wife keeps asking me who I am yelling at.

Sophist, I think that it goes to the performance on a day to day basis. A pitcher with good stuff can go out and have great command one day, and totally lose it in their next start. My guess is that this guy will eventually fall into his normal mode, but the Phillies have to keep it close until that happens.

Just shows how strikeouts aren't really that much worse (for the offense) than other outs...

parker - agreed. Especially with all of his 3-2 counts.

Cole, breaking up the perfect game.

Finally! Someone gets a hit.

Cole! Lead the way!

J-Roll, take away some of that Hanrahan mojo.

And JRoll. Keep it going, Chase.

For someone all over the place, Hanrahan sure is getting the borderline pitches...

Drat! Chase didn't look good on that one.

60 pitches through 3 innings. They could get into the pen early if they can keep that rate up.

same pitch he struck out on in 1st and same pitch he launched over the right field wall yesterday

Utley just missed that one. If he throws it there again, it is gone.

Is there something intimidating about Deangelo Jimenez that I don't know about?

he was the first official hitter in CBP history


Advice to Howard: just roll it to second base next time.

sorry to say that that right there is why howard is going to end up in the AL as a DH some day, he just doesn't seem to show the effort in the field sometimes

Seems like Howard has done that a bunch lately.

The bad throw to second that is. There was that game when he hit the runner in the back with the throw and he doesn't seem to be the same guy throwing to second since then.

And he makes a good grab.

Howard absolutely has a mental block about making throws.

Steve Sax syndrome. The man hasn't made a throw anywhere in weeks (months?). Unbelieveable.

Advice to Howard: Practice that throw everyday

Let's get something started here. I wouldn't mind the ol PtBB

Howard needs to start reciting facts about Playboy Playmates when he throws to first.

And Howard ties the single season strike out record!

The crowd goes wild.

I just got in--this Nat scrub has six strikeouts??!

kylej: hey, they used to say the same thing about Thome

Werth's swing looks really long and slow right now....

What, does the rest of the team want Howard to feel in good company with strikeouts? Crap.

inky: Over his career, Werth is very ordinary vs. right-handed pitching

Well, the guy has thrown over 80 pitches after 4 innings, and has gone to many 3-2 counts. In the 3rd and 4th the Phils had two on with 2 out. I would say this guy is pitching just well enough to not be getting blown up. LA on the radio says he's pitching many hittable pitches.

"Just shows how strikeouts aren't really that much worse (for the offense) than other outs..."

Putting the ball in play gives you a better chance to score

Was Victorino limping today?

Thanks clout. I also think he's wearing down a bit since he first when on his tear. He doesn't have the same snap from his hands as he used to. Have to imagine the wrist has something to do with that.

incredible, 7 k's and 1 walk against a guy who previously this year had 34/33 respectively, while his ERA has also dropped from 6.84 before the game to 5.92 now..

LA's not handling the pressure too well. He's been ripping individual Phils pretty regularly these days.

Victorino obviously can't keep that calf in good condition, which is a shame. Werth has done a very commendable job since he took over in RF, but on the whole he is not someone you want to see starting against RH pitching. The best thing he can do up there agsinst most righties is take pitches a la Burrell.

Not to be outdone, Cole's now running up the pitch count (I know it's not his fault).

First pitch swinging for Ruiz. Nice.

Standard Ruiz AB.

Cole had a better AB than Ruiz. Let the Coste-Ruiz banter begin again.

Another fish error.

Also gives you a greater chance to GIDP, reed

Are you watching, Ruiz?

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