Game chat: Hamels returns to hill tonight in St. Louis

Ace left-hander Cole Hamels makes his first start in over a month as the Phillies and Cardinals continue their series at Busch Stadium. Meanwhile, the Cardinals' starter is still listed as a game-time decision.

Hamels (14-5, 3.50 ERA) has been sidelined since August 17 with a strained left elbow. Representing the team’s first home-grown All-Star pitcher since Randy Wolf, the 23-year-old notched 156 strikeouts in 25 starts before going on the shelf. His last start came Aug. 16 at Washington, shutting out the Nats over 6 2-3 innings for the win. Hamels tossed a 55-pitch bullpen session last Saturday and indicated all systems were go.

The offense tries to continue its torrid hitting against St. Louis’ mystery pitcher. The Phils jumped all over the Cards to take 11-0 and 12-3 leads through 6.0 innings before the Cardinals came back to score 6 runs in the 7th inning and 2 more in the 8th. The sluggfest included two Ryan Howard homers, including his second grand slam of 2007. Aaron Rowand went 3-for-5 with two homers. Jimmy Rollins also belted a three-run shot.

Best of the press notes: In their last 60 games against the NL Central, the Phillies are 39-21 (.650), dating to last season ... For his career, opponents are hitting .215 (51-237) against Hamels with RISP, including .163 (13-80) in his last 18 starts (Phillies are 13-5) ... Rollins is hitting .324 (71-219), 7 HR, 29 RBI, 43 R in his last 49 road games.

Comments

[J.R. King]

If Hamels pitches like Hamels tonight (and feels fine tomorrow morning), I'd go to a 4-man rotation down the stretch. What do you all think?

[Jeff]

I think we should go with the 2 man rotation: Hamels and Rollins. That's right.

[kdon]

From last post:

AWH,
Rowand won't be in Boston.

They have good ol' Covelli Crisp signed through 2009, and their top position prospect (Ellsbury) is also a CF.

[denny b.]

"If Hamels pitches like Hamels tonight (and feels fine tomorrow morning), I'd go to a 4-man rotation down the stretch. What do you all think?"

Sounds good in theory, but it won't work with this staff.

Hamels is still on a pitch count tonight.

Kendrick has now thrown 190 innings this year and they want to be careful with him.

Moyer is 45 years old.

Lohse is only good for about 6 innings on regular rest.

Keep those 4 guys on regular rest, dump Eaton out of the rotation (and put him in the pen; where he would be in the playoffs anyway) and start Happ against Washington on Friday and against Atlanta next Thursday. That's what SHOULD be done.

[denny b.]

BTW, LoDuca ripped his teammates today and was upset about being taken out of the game last night.

The Mets are definitly feeling the heat. That weekend series took a lot of steam out of them. Keep on winning and see what happens.

[curt]

Yeah, but 8 million x 3 reasons Happ won't be happening.

[Rusty E]

denny b. - Stop making sense. You are being to logical

Has anyone from the Phillies commented on Happ's status? When is the last time he has thrown? I am guessing the last game he threw was on or around Labor Day. If that is the case, I doubt we will see him.

Last night's game reminded me of a Divison III baseball contest. Felt like it was a loser's bracket game of a double elimination tournament or the second game of a sunday doubleheader of a weekend full of conference games. So many top arms unavailable and anyone that can get throw strikes and get a a batter out stays in the game.

A Division III bullpen. That's how i have view the Phillies pen after the top three guys. That's how a bullpen is managed. You pitch well in one game (Castro and Rosario), you get your number called the next time. You fail, (Condrey and Mesa), you become an after thought until everyone messed up again.

[ae]

I think a lack of confidence in Happ would prevent him from taking Eaton's spot, not Eaton's salary. management and/or Manuel had no problem dropping him from the rotation just a few weeks ago.

[denny b.]

El Duque is likely done for the rest of the regular season. Serious case of bunyons. He will be in a boot for 7-10 days.

As for Happ, why not try him? He might get bombed too, but so will Eaton. He might pitch well too. Eaton won't.

[control13]

Despite their perceived unraveling, the Muts have their best starter Maine going tonight. It seems tough for the Nats unless the Muts have really completely gone to pieces.

Happ should start in place of Eaton and Mateo should be called up. I say that never having seen either one of them pitch.

[ae]

sure, I would give Happ a try, especially if he starts @ RFK against the Nats' offense.

I'm just saying that if he doesn't, I think it's because management (right or wrong) doesn't trust him, not because of Eaton's contract.

[curt]

Happ & Mateo are currently fly fishing north of Denver. Each night they piss off everyone at the lodge when they tune in the Phils, drink Coors and cackle at the stiffs on the mound. Kanester...Condrey...Ennis?

[from the district]

denny-b

7-10 days? where'd you hear that?

that would be very good if true.

[CJ]

from the district:

I heard it as well. There's concern El Duque may have thrown his last inning this year.

[clout]

Happ is at least as good as Matt Chico. Start him in RFK.

[CJ]

More Mets notes from this article:

El Duque has bunion issues.
Pedro needs five days rest between starts instead of the normal four.
Delgado will miss at least another series and might return this weekend in Florida.

[clout]

To follow up on some comments on previous thread: I'm with Alby on the 3B situation. Spend some money, sign Lowell AND get as much pitching as you can. Helms is signed thru '08 but that doesn't mean he has to start. He'd be backup at 1B and 3B and top righty PH.

[CJ]

clout: To be clear... if a choice has to be made between a new third baseman or help in the rotation or bullpen, what would you choose?

[BENTZ]

I played DIII baseball and all four of my years our bullpen was better than the Phillies (well, not really, but more consistent for sure at our level). In fact one of the major reasons we were good was that our bullpen was so strong. My senior year we began having bullpen problems and despite a great everyday lineup, we were in trouble any time one of our starters got touched up. The guys who did the job in 2003 didn't do it in 2004.

[RSB]

LoDuca is the worst excuse for a 'team leader' I've ever seen. I guess they figure Wright is too young to assume that position, but LoDuca's example is not the one you want.

[Willard Preacher]

The funniest part about that Mets article is the magic number ad on the left hand side. 11 with 13 games to play isn't exactly a gimmee.

At the risk of jinxing this team, I propose that if the Phillies win the division this year, Jason W. should be allowed to take control of Metsblog.com for an entire day, whereby guests could be greated with a welcoming "TEAM TO BEAT" headline accompanied by the requisite Phils celebration photo for a solid 24 hours.

[Dan]

At least it's nice to see the Mets face some adversity. It has been soooooo annoying listen to their TV crew fawn all over this club. They looked pretty demoralized last night. Willie is catching a lot of heat for not doing enough to stop the bleeding. I don't know how much can be done on his end when the team commits 10 errors in two games.

Maine was their best pitched in the first half, but hasn't done much lately. I expect them to win tonight, but you never know. Reyes is like Rollins in that as he goes, so does the team. Jose Jose Jose is in a serious funk. And hopefully that continues tonight. I'll watch them and the Yanks, while getting ESPN bottom line phils updates and texts from my GF in phila...seeing as i have yet to get a new comp for my apt

[CJ]

Marlon Anderson suspended two games for arguing balls and strikes.

[Willard Preacher]

clout, I like your thinking on Helms. He's not terrible, in the Nunez sense, he's just a terrible everyday 3B. Lowell would alleviate that need for daily late inning defensive replacement, as well.

Now, if only we could find a utility player that could fill in for Utley and Rollins on occasion, that is actually worthy of making the major league minimum....

[ajc1]

Rockies up on Dodgers 3-1 after 7 ... first game of twin bill ...

[Ben Keeler]

LA on Jody Mac just now said there is no question in his mind that Eaton will be skipped if (when) he gets lit up against WSH on Friday. Hopefully it isnt one start too late.

He definetly didnt take the company line when talking about Eaton and what a disapointment he has been. It was nice to hear.

[wayne]

With 17 pitchers on the roster you would think that they could get through a 9 inning game. Coste has pitched an inning a couple of times in the minors if they need some help.

[ajc1]

Dodgers lose, 3-1 final

[Lake Fred]

Despite the sad state of our bullpen, I'd make getting a real major league starting third baseman on the same priority level as getting another starter or middle reliever.

[Callison]

According to Baseball Prospectus:
Phils' chance of winning division 10.5%
Chance of winning WC 31.7%
Chance of making playoffs 42.2%
May the most bi-polar, schizophrenic, heat-attack-producing team of '07 make it to October

[clout]

WP: There are any number of AAA veterans who would be an upgrade over Nunez as utility guy. They could probably get a veteran as well, maybe someone like Cesar Izturis, at a reasonable price. Izturis is faster than Nunez and is a far better fielder although it's probably a wash on offense.

[clout]

I would give anything to see Coste pitch a shutout inning in relief just so I could read davthom's post.

[CubeHostage]

now i don't have any major league experience, but isn't it rather bad form not to announce your starter until gametime? i mean, isn't that a real advantage for the cardinals? who did utley study this afternoon?

just seems like a cheap move by LaRussa. but then, what do i know?

[ajc1]

clout - I'd give good money to see a shoutout inning in relief, period. I don't care who pitches it.

[curt]

The Mets/Nats game tonight might give some further hope that we're looking at a 1964-type collapse.

As it is now, the Mutts are still on their season-long pace to win 90 games.

[Dan]

Mets fans are gettin all "Ya Gotta Believe" on us over at metsblog...such snakes...why cant we be in a position to 'believe' in a 1st place team??????? must be nice.

Willie apparently had a closed door meeting a little while ago...lets hope it backfires.

[lucky]

even though the phillies need pitching, i would rather see them get an established third baseman than throw money at another over-priced pitching free agent. zito, schmidt, garcia, eaton -- the list of high-priced pitching disappointments goes on.

since the goal is always to outscore your opponent, i don't see the problem with getting a slugger at third and trying out some of these young arms in the farm system. i'd also like myers to return to the rotation; with him, hamels, moyer and kendrick, i don't view the prospective 2008 staff as in need of serious retooling. just the bullpen.

[rob]

control-- Maine is not the Mutts best starter.. He has had a horrible 2nd half.. Their best starter is probably a toss-up between Glavine and Oliver Perez.. At any rate, LoDuca has always been immature. I call him LoDouchebag.. What is the pitch count for Cole tonight?? 75? anybody know?

[kdon]

Dead on about Maine:

Since the all-star break, he has been damn near Eatonian:

12 GS, 5.46 ERA, Opponents OPS: 802

[nick]

Anybody else see these Mets team meeting pics?

[kells]

LoDucca is a classless punk w/ a noodle arm.The New York papers last year exposed him as a dirtbag off the field as well. He should look in the mirror before he calls out his team.
In regards to Happ-can someone explain why Mesa is on this roster instead of him? Does it effect his service time? I'm baffled.
Does Gillick give interviews anymore?
I would love to hear why Mateo isn't on the expanded roster. I think I heard Arbuckle say his location was bad. My guess is they relized they screwed up signing another wifebeater & don't want to take a PR hit.

[BloodStripes]

From Yahoo baseball pages.....

"Todd Zolecki, of The Philadelphia Inquirer, reports Philadelphia Phillies SP Cole Hamels will likely be on a 65 to 70 pitch count in his start Tuesday, Sept. 18."

[Mr J]

I hope LaRussa doesn't read Zolecki's column. He might have his hitters work long counts and get Cole out by the 4th inning. Then the AAAA bullpen does its thing. Tune in early for this one.

[denny b.]

The Mets have dumped Brian Lawrence (DFA'd) and called up LHP Dave Williams.

Nice to see some teams still making moves to their pitching staff.

[rob]

Denny-- that move is a wash.. both pitchers will be unemployed by oct1

[MG]

One of the absurd notations that seems to be floating around today this notion of a "top 3" in the Phils' bullpen.

The Phils only have one legit arm out of the pen and that is Myers. Gordon has had a few good outings since he supposedly made a minor adjustment but I certainly don't feel confident when he takes the mound.

Plus, people are really excited about Gordon's strikeouts lately but I am much more concerned that he has basically given up on his offspeed stuff and is almost exclusively relying on his fastball at this point. No reliever can solely rely on a fastball (especially one that tops out at 93 ) and not get tagged pretty badly at some point.

As for Romero, he has been a great story since the Phils picked him up. Incredibly wild at times but he is an ideal bullpen guy for CBP because he keeps the ball down and in the park. Ideally, he would be utilized as a LOOGY but in this bullpen he is forced to be used as a setup guy.

[MG]

Want I want to know is if Gillick is still actually the Phils' GM? When was the last time he made a comment of any substance on the record?

[JMARR]

Hi guys - been on the road - I think we're looking at Real Deal at some point tonight in "long" relief of Cole - which means that we're goint to see Eaton remain in the rotation, (the off day on Monday is intriguing, but I think Charlie and the crew sticks to the "Moyer is 45, Kendrick has pitched more this year than ever before ... so Eaton stays).

With Cole going - he really runs counts deep as a Strike-out guy - I think we'll be very fortunate to get 5 full out of him with a pitch count around 75. (15 per)

[MG]

Any word on the health of the Flyin' Hawaiian? Haven't heard a word lately on his hamstring but he must be really banged up to not even being used as a defensive replacement for Werth at this point.

[parker]

Speaking of AAA pitching, how about those Nats.

2-0 Mets, inning 1.

[CJ]

Lineups are in and its Dobbs, Werth and Ruiz in 6-7-8 again.

[CJ]

I doubt Metsblog will be full of "we're back on track" after getting an early lead tonight. That's what they were rolling with after going up 4-0 last night.

[parker]

And of note: They walked Reyes again. Are the Phillies the only team with any brains? Keep Reyes off base and you chop off the head of the Mets. It is the same thing with the Phillies, but J-Roll is the ultimate pest to opposing teams.

[CJ]

MG: I don't think anyone is saying that Gordon is a shut-down reliever, but there's no doubt he's much more effective right now than most of what we could send out to the hill. My confidence level right now goes like this:

1. Myers
2. Gordon
3. Romero
4. Alfonseca?
5. Geary?
6. Everyon else?

[Tray]

I'm sure Mr. Hanrahan has some brains, but having a good arm is involved too, parker.

[CJ]

4-0 Mets... the Nats have them right where they want them!

[loctastic]

LoDuca is to the Mets as Myers is to the Phillies.

As in, he's a noisy windbag with inconsistent production that nobody listens to.

[parker]

Gordon "sounded" great agains the Mets (I only got to listen to the first two games).

Clout, I am kind of surprised that you are advocating picking up Lowell. While I have no doubt that you are right in assuming that he would be an upgrade over Helms and co. but he is having a career at an advanced age in a contract year. I know it is pure speculation, but I have a feeling that Lowell is a big cantidate to show up on a DL list somewhere for most of next season after he pockets all that cash (those knees seem to have a way of not feeling so good once that contract is signed). If I'm not mistaken, he is injury prone, and has a history of not playing through injuries. The Red Sox have had to let him have a bunch of days off already this season, and that seems like something that he would probably like to avoid, considering the possible impications that would have on his negotiations. If you think that Lowell could be had on the cheap, then I am all for it, but I would rather go with someone younger if it could be done (Not that there is anyone really available).

[ajc1]

CJ - Relief ERA as Phillies this season

Romero 1.65
Myers 2.89*
Durbin 3.65*
Geary 4.50
Alfonseca 5.11
Davis 5.19
Gordon 5.46
Rosario 5.47
Condrey 5.48
Mesa 6.11
Castro 9.00*
Ennis 14.73*
(* does not include innings as starter)

Granted, ERA is only 1 statistic, but there you go. Durbin hasn't been used since his last implosion, er, start, so maybe they start working him in, I dunno.

[Ribbies]

Looks like tonight's pitcher is Todd Wellemeyer. Don't know anything about him.

[parker]

Here come the Nats, 4-1 Mets.

[Ribbies]

Dobbs, Werth and Ruiz - 5,7,8 for the Phils.

[parker]

Ribbies, Wellmeyer has had some very good games this year, but I don't really know much about his stuff.

[Ribbies]

Sorry, that was supposed to be 6,7,8

[RSB]

It is nearly impossible for the Mets to continue playing as bad as they've been over the last four games, particularly against weak teams. It'd be nice to think they'll collapse, but I really don't think it'll happen. Score a moral victory for scaring the crap out of their fans, at least.

[kdon]

I love it that it only takes two innings for RSB to give up hope!

It's a three run game, and the Mets pen is a joke. Geez.

[parker]

RSB, they have some real problems. It's not like the Mets are just a team that is going through some kind of brain cramp. They have had inconsistent starting pitching, bad defense, and a horrible bullpen. Throw in the fact that other than Reyes and Wright, they are a rather aged team with injuries. One of their supposed big producers is on the bench (Delgado), and is up there in years. If ever there was a team that could blow a division lead, I think the Mets would be the model.

[Jack]

I can't deal with watching the Nats and needing them to win. I've said it before and I'll say it again: we need to win almost every game to get in. The Mets and Padres are GOOD teams, they are gonna win most games. We need to go 9-3 from here in AT THE MINIMUM. It sucks needing good teams ahead of you to lose. As a Phils fan, I'm used to it though.

[Jack]

Kdon: The Mets bullpen may be a joke. So is the Nats bullpen. Except they'll shut us down when we go there. This is the same story, just a new season

[kdon]

Oh, four run game...

[kdon]

9-3 is still right Jack, and that probably just means a playoff game.

Need to win tonight and tomorrow.

[kdon]

BTW, I am ecstatic that LaRussa continues to bat his pitcher 8th.

The guy has some talents, but this is just outsmarting yourself.

[BloodStripes]

Cool stat..... Hamels is 10-1 against NL central teams.

[naylman]

Nats get one back, 5-2.

[parker]

Pujols is not in the lineup.

[Andy]

"Pujols is not in the lineup."

It's probably another one of those LaRussa counter-intuitive moves since Pujols has hit Hamels well.

[parker]

Alright, good job Chase.

[Andy]

Thank you Mr. Utley.

[AFish]

Pujols has strained calf.

[Andy]

"Pujols has strained calf."

I think Gerbers makes that.

[Andy]

Good patience.

[CJ]

5-3 Mets

[AFish]

5-3 Mets.

[parker]

Loaded for Gillick's Gun.

[Andy]

C'mon Dobbs, pretend you're pinch-hitting.

[CJ]

loaded for Dobbs? Hmmmm...

[Spitz]

27 pitches already for Wellemeyer. LEts get a run or two, and this will be a really successful inning

[parker]

Dobb's is a very professional hitter, as far as his approach goes.

[Andy]

Woo-hoo! Everybody walks.

[parker]

Great patience there Dobbsie, not quite the slam, but good enough.

[CJ]

Real good at bat there... didn't ever get anything to hit.

[squatter]

Ten or eleven more and we might win this thing.

[Spitz]

Thoughts on what Cole will do tonight?

I say 6 shutout innings before he hits his pitch count. Everyone knock on wood now

[madubbs]

bad at bat by werth

[Andy]

So, Wellemeyer threw 37 pitches. Which means an early entree into the Card's bullpen. I don't know whether or not that's a good thing.

[parker]

Andy, its a good thing.

[AFish]

Alou got hurt.

[parker]

Is it me, or is Hamels already getting squeezed here?

[Andy]

If I were the Cards I would fine Ryan for swinging 3 - 0.

[parker]

Alright, that is the strangest first inning in a while, no real threat.