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Tuesday, August 28, 2007


Awesome line.
"Guys like Rollins and Howard weren't built to spend Octobers at home."

But it just makes me hate you bc we know there's no reason for it but it just keeps on happening, and it probably will again.

- Wow! Phillies bullpen outpitching the Mets bullpen. Who'd of thunk it.

- Maybe Eaton should ONLY pitch against the Mets the rest of the year. His best pitch of the night though, was at Beltrans ribs. Wonder if Carlos will play tonite?

- Somebody out there in Phillies land must be reading Beerleaguer, 'cause all we've been asking for weeks is why can't Meyers pitch more than one inning. Now we have our answer.

- As I posted in the last thread; Isn't it amazing how Ryan Howard hits as soon as Chase is back in the lineup?

- We need a fresh Moyer tonight (Wed), not the tired 45 year old Jamie of late. This is his chance to show the Phillies why they shouldn't shy away from obtaining pitchers who pitch, not just flame throwers who rear back and fire it.

Only a matter of time before it hits 1,000.

Still haven't read the comments.. but does anyway know if Eaton intentionally beaned Beltran (ump sure thought that) and if so, why did he?

will the Padres freaking lose already, we can't buy a break with them.

The way the Padres are playing lately, maybe it would be in the Phillies best interest to have them catch the Snakes.

In fact, they're lineup and pitching scares me a lot less than SD.

er...their lineup, not they're lineup.

It's late...sorry.

Well their lineup and pitching should scare you less, they've been outscored on the season for heaven sakes. I can't make any sense of that team. But if they can't even beat them with Webb going against Germano, they will lose that division.

As good a win tonight as bad as Saturday's loss was against SD. Howard could be about ready for the same kind of September he had last year. He wasn't as off-balance with his stance and swing the past few nights. When he drives the ball back up the middle and to left, look out.

3 out of 4 was the goal coming in, and that still should be the bare minimum of what the Phils get out of this series. Just gotta keep Reyes off the bases again tomorrow. If he gets on against Moyer, just give him 2nd (and maybe 3rd). Reyes is like Rollins. When he gets on and hits, the Mets usually win. When he doesn't, they struggle to score.

The Mets bullpen is probably in worse shape than the Phils right now. No one for them is piching well. Mota has been a disaster. Heliman has been very inconsistant. Feliciano has struggled against the Phils. Schoeneweis has been bad all year. Wagner has a tired arm.

Get to Perez early tomorrow and get into that bullpen again. The Phils likely won't have Myers available, so it should be Alf as the closer tomorrow, with Flash setting up. Moyer has to pitch better tomorrow, doesn't he? I don't know if Romero will be able to go for a 3rd straight day. The lack of another lefty down in the pen could really hurt the Phils tomorrow.

And, why is Mesa still on this roster? He has no business pitching in any close game the rest of the way and is too old to pitch multiple innings in middle relief. Get him out of here and get another lefty in that pen pronto. The rosters expand Saturday, so you can make more additions then. But the next 2 days games are vital, and the pen got a workout the last 2 nights. And, with no off-days coming anytime soon and trips to Florida (hot and humid) and Atlanta (see above), we need all the fresh arms down there we can find.

Just got home from the game. You all can thank my friend and I. We were in left field, waving the ball into the stands.

I have to say, the quote of the (last) thread with regards to Howard's HR has to be:


Well done, parker!

is everyone back from the edge now? not trading howard anymore? not calling the season over?

this team is right around good enough to make the playoffs. whether or not they do is a diffrent question, but they won't go down without a pretty good fight.

Myers only had 10 or 12 pitches in the 9th inning. That's why he could go two. Normally it takes him 25 pitches to close it out..

Many spent time on his blog earlier criticizing Pat Burrell.

Yes, Victorino tied the game with his legs, and broke Mota's rhythm with his legs later on, forcing him to slidestep when pitching to Howard in the 10th.

But, it was Burrell who drew the walk. It was Burrell who got on base. That set the rest of it up.

Pat has his flaws, but OBP isn't one of them. A walk was as good as a base hit in that situation, we needed a base runner, and Burrell came through.

No walk, maybe no tie and no win. Give him credit.

Another Padre win, another save for Trevor Hoffman. On and on it goes.

3 back in the WC, 4 back in the division.

Denny, I'm buying what your selling. Keep the pressure on their pen. I approve of them sticking it to them with late runs on Monday.

I'll share a frightening statistic. Guess who has the best winning percentage in the NL East against their division rivals?


I'm beginning to think an arizona collapse out west is our best chance this year (though i'm not giving up on the division). webb did not look too good tonight, and that team is young and inexperienced.

Well at this point we probably do have a better shot at the division than the wild card, 3 back of the Padres and just a half ahead of the Dodgers, but we do now take a 2.5 game lead over the Rockies so they're a little further out of the picture. It's very tough to be optimistic about this team given the state of the rotation and the fact that there are just 2 reliable arms in the pen - but our offense should be really good going forward. At least after the past few games a really hot September is starting to look conceivable.

We're four back of the Snakes. We just need to catch up to one of them. Or just get rid of the NL Central auto bid. Man, we play so much better baseball than all of those failures, and they get one in the dance.

I don't think you can justify a system where a team can get shut out of the playoffs in favor of a team with a worse record, but it'll be years before anything changes. If you don't have auto bids for division winners, what's the point of divisional play at all? They'd have to scrap the whole system as it currently stands.

Ah F' it... let's win the division... .

Great win tonight... I had a feeling... Mostly because the Mets couldn't score more than 2 runs today.

The key has been shutting reyes down.

@AWF -- Great point re: Burrell Walk.

Friday and Saturday night sucked royally... the last 3 games have made up for that...

let's take this momentum... onward...

I was in a bar watching the game. There is nothing better than hearing an entire bar ERUPT with a WALK-OFF homer.

Well... except for being at the ballpark I guess!!!

Regarding on the best playoff option...

I think the division and wild card opportunities are pretty even right now.

4 back of the Mets. The Mets have a tough schedule up until mid September. They play 5 more games with the Phils, 6 more games with Atlanta and a 3 game road series against Cincy (who has been playing very well lately and can score a ton of runs). But, if they can hold onto the lead until Mid September, they will probably be OK. They finish with a lot of Florida and Washington on the schedule the last 2 weeks of the season. They won't lose many games to those teams. If the Phils are to catch the Mets, it better be in the next 2 weeks.

As for the wild card, both AZ and SD face similar schedules. Both play the Pitiful Pirates. Both have multiple games with the Giants. They play each other again next week in Arizona. AZ has a series in Pittsburgh the last week of the season. SD goes to Milwaukee to close out the season. For Phillie fans sake, better hope the Brewers are still in the playoff hunt. They will likely lay down if the Cubs have already wrapped up the division. I think San Diego is the better team, with the better all around pitching and more veteran players. I think they will win the division, but I think Arizona is going to be right there for the wild card.

Philly's schedule worries me a bit in September. The stretch (all on the road) of the Mets (for 3) the Cardinals (for 3) and the Nats (for 4) in mid September will tell the story. The Cardinals could end up being right in the hunt for the NL Central title, so they will still be playing hard and playing their veterans. And, the Nats always play the Phils tough, especially at RFK. If the Phils can somehow get through that tough 10 game road trip, and they are within a game at worst of the WC, I like their chances down the stretch. 6 straight home games against Atlanta and Washington to finish it out. If Atlanta is out of it by then, who knows who will be in their rotation by then. Smoltz may not even be pitching anymore by that time. And, if you can't take care of business at home against the Nats, then you don't deserve to make the playoffs.

But as always, the Phils just have to take care of what they can control and that is their games and see where the chips fall in the end.

Coolstandings has the Phils playoff chances back up to 36.5%. After Saturday night, they were down at 13%.

I agree with Bridoc & Elliott that it would actually be to our advantage to have the Padres pass the D-Backs. The Padres are an experienced team that has been in the playoffs 2 years in a row; plus, they proved in last year's race that they know how to play good ball when they're in a playoff chase. The D-Backs are very young & inexperienced and a good bet to falter in a close race -- although the schedule makers did do them a pretty big favor with a soft September schedule.

If we can somehow sweep the Mets -- of which I'm skeptical -- we'll be 2 out in the division race and no worse than 2 out in the WC race. That's a pretty nice position to be in at the start of September. And it doesn't hurt at all that a lot of these other WC contenders, like Colorado, Atlanta, & the Brewers are starting to fade.

At least they haven't given up, especially after last weekend,

At least they haven't given up, especially after last weekend,

I just looked at the remaining 31 as well. I'll tell you what series gives me the willies - St. Louis. I can just see Rolen and Pujols lighting up against the bullpen. The WC will only come out of the East or West.

I'm also ready to count out Atlanta. 19 strikeouts tonight is a small slice of their season. Jeff Francoeur with a platinum sombrero and getting tossed... seriously, this cannot be a playoff team.

I don't think any of the remaining series will be a cakewalk. Not at this point in the season.

let's hope no one on the Phillies roster actually reads Beerleaguer, because they'd be amazed at how quickly the venom can turn to praise, and vice versa. for the record, though, and mostly since no one else is saying it, i'd like to see some more clutch hitting from Coste. he's light years better than Barajas, but a hit with the bases loaded would be nice.

The DBacks and Padres have the same number of losses. We just have to keep winning, but like I said yesterday, our 1-5 record vs AZ this year could come back to just kill us in the end.

dennyb - Good point about the next two weeks. Given the Mets soft schedule the last two weeks of the season, the Phils can write off the division if they aren't at least even with the Mets after leaving Shea on Sept. 16th.

The only break in the schedule is that the Phils last off-day on Sept. 24th while the Mets don't have an off-day after Sept. 13th. Those off-days tend to be a big deal in Sept.

With Webb losing tonight, there is a good chance the Dbacks are going to get swept by the Padres this week and the Padres will be in first place. It will leave the Padres 74-59 and the Dbacks 74-61.

Figuring the Phils take 1 of the final 2 in this series. It would leave the Phils at 70-63 and 4 back behind the Mets and still 3 back in the WC.

These last two games have made me greedy. If the homestand can really be called a success, then the Phils have to take these last 2 games against the Mets to make the NL East a real race again since they fudged their chances against the Padres in the WC chase.

3 of 4 against the Mets would be nice but it will still leave the Phils 4 back in the NL East and just 5-5 on this 10-game homestand.

Off topic but i was at the Mariners game tonight and caught a Rick White sighting. He is sporting some kind of bleach blonde moustache-less goatee. He came in with the bases loaded and Vlad Guerrero coming up. I knew that was trouble.

ok official recap from the money pit!
fist of all, as always, mets fans are the worst in baseball!! for years they were celler dwellers with us and no one ever heard a peep out of them but as soon as they put together one winning season all of new jersey comes to philadelphia. yes new jersey not new york. we all know that there are no mets fans in new york!!! not only do they fudge their origin, but they show up here yap for 6 innings and disappear. i was at shea for the 3 game sweep in june and i was booted from the park due to cry baby mets fans. no mets fans got run today, but that was for the best because had they been run i wouldn't have had the chance to see them cry their way back to jersey. infact i believe the delaware river is at flood level due to all the tears falling in from the walt whitman bridge tonight.
not only are they bad fans with no knowledge of the game, but they are gross. easily the fattest, uggliest fans in all of baseball. gross gross gross...
regardless, my one regret was that wagner never seriously warmed up. he tossed twice and heard it "RAT RAT RAT!!!" i didn't have a gun but i can say with confidence he never topped 100.
in all seriousness, there was a real energy after the 6th. lets go phillies was the chant of the evening. its that time of year when every game is the biggest.
go phills!!

Well, I missed the game tonight but you have to love any game where Adam Eaton beats Tom Glavine. God bless the Philadelphia Phillies.

not only did he beat glavine but he won on joe west beind the plate night. not to say we are out of the woods yet, but we won with the jerk at first and home which are probably the spot he can do the most damage.

Its been a great couple of days. Howard walk-offs are the best.

Weel done all and congratulations Beerleaguer on setting a new posts record.

From Bob Ford's column today:

"Still, there are miles to go. If the Phillies are to win 90 games this season - it seems to be a magic number in this division - they need to finish up with a 21-10 run. (The Mets need to finish 17-13 to hit the mark.) That is possible for the Phils, but hardly likely."

"90" has been my mantra all season long and I totally agree the Phils will walk into the playoffs with they can get somehow get there.

I have a bad feeling though it will be in the 85-87 win range yet again and I just don't think that will be enough.

"mets fans are the worst in baseball!!"

mike nutter, you forgot "rude, obnoxious, front-running, bandwagon-jumping, 'unable to hold their beer', and 'ungentlemanly'. Did I miss anything?

Also, you forgot to mention that the food at Shea is the worst in baseball. Total crap.

Awesome game!

Cowboy Joe West was screwing us with the strikezone all night, but we overcame it.

Rollins quite possibly may be the NL MVP, or if Utley can play regularly down the stretch here and the Phils sneak into the playoffs, he too could be considered for the award. Even Ryan Howard with a very productive September could get consideration. We have 3 amazing offensive talents on our club, and Vic/Burrell are doing a fine job complimenting them.

Grand Pappy Moyer needs to come through with a fine pitching performance tonight and we need to rattle Ollie's cage because he can lose his composure in a hurry.

MG, for them to win 21, the offense will have to go absolutely NUTS. 7-8 RPG the rest of the way. Possible, but....

Still, they are fun to watch when they win, and maddening when they don't.

Carson, even Mitch Williams said openly in the postgame that West seems to be losing it...time to retire.

Unfortunately, all teams have to deal with umpires that are slipping.

"rude, obnoxious, front-running, bandwagon-jumping, 'unable to hold their beer', and 'ungentlemanly'. Did I miss anything?"


yeah i saw that post game last night where Mitch was saying it was time for Cowboy Joe to hang it up because he's not letting pitchers pitch and because of the ball that got away from Eaton and hit Beltran that he warned both benches even though it was unintentional.

I think Moyer will have a good night tonight, I think the Mets are going to be over-aggressive at the plate to try and take this game but with the way Jamie changes speeds he's going to frustrate them.

"Mets are going to be over-aggressive at the plate to try and take this game"

Ahhh... thank you Michael. I was looking for something (kinda sorta) realistic to build some hope on. This is it. They will be swingin from their socks and that 65 mph fastball oughta be nigh unhittable.

Well, looks like the "Garcia as September savior" thing won't be happpening:

"There was no official report on the condition of pitcher Freddy Garcia, who was in Alabama to have his injured right shoulder examined by orthopedist James Andrews. Phillies officials expect that Garcia will opt for surgery and move on to another organization next season..."

AWH, LOL, nice comment on the Muts fans. I am still trying to figure out how being "gentelmanly" and "holding your beer" go together. Lol. Nice.

Reyes: Was watching Mike and Mike in the Morning and they did a segment on voting for which MVP cantidates that they should make an MVP song for. In case you don't watch the show, they make up a goofy song for MVP cantidates near the end of the season. They had one for Ryno last year and they replayed that. This begs the question: Since when did slap hitting, base stealers, hitting under .300, get considered for the MVP? And Louis Castillo has a question for them as well: Where you been my entire career? Maybe it helps if you play in New York, and not in Florida/Minnesota. By the way, neither Ryno nor Uts were options. They can shove it.

Garth Brooks/Scott Linebrink: I hate to invoke Garth Brooks under any circumstances, but his song: "Thank God, for unanswered Prayers" seems really appropriate in light of the non-trade of Rowand for Linebrink earlier in the year. Linebrink is stinking up the joint in Milwaukee, while Aaron Rowand is, in the words of The other Kevin: "Making Citizen's Bank Park's dirt" famous. Good call Mr. Gillick.

Iguchi: While his role may have been limited with Utley's return, I think he is a great piece to this team down the stretch. One more guy with World Series championship experience, who is patient and will take the ball the other way. Plus he has some pop as well and is a good D replacement at a couple of positions (1B, 2B, 3B if we get desperate) if necessary.

So why hasn't anyone given any credit to Manual yet? If we are going to crucify him for bad moves, we have to praise him for games like last night. He brought Victorino in and he left Myers in for 2 innings. Looking back it is easy to say, "well that's what he should have done," but I'll bet some of you were unhappy when you saw Vic. run out to first base to pinch run. It is true, sometimes moves just work and sometimes they just don't but Manual definitely pulled the right strings last night and it worked.

Good 2 wins for you guys. Tonight will depend if hitters are patient enough to make Perez throw strikes. Reyes not getting any hits is a big reason why the Met offense has been quiet. Everything he does is contagious, so when he doesn't hit, everyone else seems to follow suit.

I'm willing to give Manuel pretty big credit for the win.

Put it this way: Manuel is doing more to raise his stock as manager of the year than not at this point.

Tray: Glad to see you finally came around to my way of thinking. :-)

denny b: Quickie Quiz for you: Wich team has been the best in baseball over the past 10 games?

Some real pink eyeglass readers in this thread. Guys writing about Eaton beating Glavine, huh? Glavine was leading 2-0 when he left the game, after Eaton Crap was sitting on the pines.

Another guy praises Cholly. I think Cholly has enough turds in his managerial Phillies resume, that winning this game won't help him. He still has to go.

I also have no confidence about tonight. Moyer has been lit up a lot lately. I expect more of the same tonight.

Perez has had some real horror shows against the Phils. Howard hit that grand slam up in Shea off him. And didn't he walk 7 guys earlier this season?

I'm just saying at the moment we have a better shot at the division. Long-term I still think the Padres/Diamondbacks will be easier to catch. By the way, how many people here would still look at trading Howard for Hughes and Chamberlain?

To the poster calling himself "Mike Nutter": I think you're right about Mets fans, but if you are from Philly, calling someone else "fat and ugly" puts you on shaky ground.

BedBeard: I tyhink that's on the money. Garcia will miss all of 2008 with shoulder surgery. Some team will sign him once he rehabs, probably to an incentive-laden 1-year deal. His one win for us this year was costly: $10 million.

Tray: I still think catching one team is easier than beating four teams and frankly, I think the Padres and D'backs are both better teams than the Phils and will finish with better records. As I've been saying for months now, I think the Mets pitchers have been all smoke and mirrors this season and if they revert to career norms, that team can be beat. Let's hope Ollie reverts to career form tonight.

P.S. Great comment about Howard & Hughes. Some people act like prospects are sure things. Posters projecting the 2009 Phillies rotation should take heed.

I too will give Charlie some credit. While I still think someone else could make A LOT better in-game decisions, Charlie has gotten things right the past 3 games (well 2 if you count his ejection on Monday). Hopefully he will keep listening to whomever is helping him out.

BTW, on Baseball Tonight last night, Peter Gammons was talking about a survey they did on who may win the Manager of the Year award. According to their tallies, Acta received the highest number of votes (by large margin).

Phillies now have 4 walk-off homers this year: Ruiz vs. Brewers; Victorino vs. Giants; and Howard twice vs. Nationals and vs. Mets. I was there for Chase's walk-off last year on Labor Day against Houston and Abreu had one for the first win of the year vs. the Dodgers last April. Did the Phils have any other ones last year? I know Howard had one in 2005 against LA.

"So why hasn't anyone given any credit to Manual yet? If we are going to crucify him for bad moves, we have to praise him for games like last night. He brought Victorino in and he left Myers in for 2 innings."

Good grief. Have expectations really gotten this low? Re Vic: Phillies were down a run in the bottom of the 8th. Lemme see, I can have the slowest or fastest runner in the game try to tie things up, what shall I do?
Re Myers: Lemme see, I can use my best pitcher who's thrown 12 pitches tonight and just 1 inning in the past week, or use some castoff, cripple, or AAA guy, what shall I do?

I realize Cholly barely has 2 brain cells to rub together, but even in West Virginia those are what you call no-brainers.

"Padres and D'backs are both better teams than the Phils"

They both have better pitching staffs. But hitting? bench? Not so sure I'd agree with you overall.

My singular beef about last night was Coste in the 8th. Previous batter walked on 4 pitches to load the bases and the Phils had a shot to do more damage. What does he do? Swings at the 1st pitch and nubs a comebacker to the mound. Somebody needs to teach plate discipline.

Andy: At season's end we get to find out who's right and who's wrong.

Exactly Brio. It was as if Ruiz was up there. Take a freaking strike, please!

Andy: I also think the Dodgers are better than they've been playing.

I'm with Fred ...Moyer has been pounded his last two times out, that doesn't inspire confidence.

I don't know about Perez, but I will say the Mets don't look that great, they're not playing now the way they were last time they came in here and won 3 of 4 a couple of months ago.

I think it's a bit too early to be watching the scoreboard SO closely.

The best - and only - thing this team can do is to keep winning ballgames. We've blown our head-to-head chances against both AZ and SD. What we haven't done is blown those against the Mets. Keep winning ballgames and good things will happen.

Last night was fantastic! I was watching the game with my less-than-enthused-we're-watching-baseball fiancee, and called the walk-off. "He's going to end it right here," I said to her.

I was thrilled to see it come true!

I'm off to Ireland tonight for 10 days. I'm sure Phillies' news will be a little hard to come by. I hope to return on September 9th to see them leading the WC and nipping at the Mets heals.

If Moyer gets hit again tonight, do you consider sitting him and keeping both Durbin and Eaton in the rotation? Granted, Eaton only had one semi-respectable appearance last night, and could revert to 6.26 ERA guy the next time around, but perhaps it really was an indication that his bruised ego was, in fact, able to heal a bit during his time on the DL. Moyer has not been fooling anybody lately and has not been getting the benefit of the doubt from the umps on his corner painting attempts -- how many more times do you put him out there if he gets hit again tonight?

If he gets hard, I can see him getting the Mike Mussina(or Adam Eaton) treatment: skipped start. It'd be hard to keep sending him out there.

I made the same exact call to my less-than-enthused-we're-watching-baseball wife. I said, if we don't win it here, we aint winnin it.

Last night was one of the best games I have watched and one of the best Phils wins in recent memory.

Good thing is that the Phils have WON with Reyes & Wright struggling. It is must-win when those guys have no offensive input -- and the Phils did exactly what it took last night to make it happen.

if moyer gets slammed tonight, i would absolutely sit him. you can't have any starting pitcher take you completely out of three consecutive starts at this point in the season.

i feel like they're going to keep eaton in the rotation. if moyer is lousy tonight, i see no good reason to pull durbin out and leave him in.

frankly, i would really like to see moyer retire after this season. i don't like the idea of penciling him in the rotation next year.

As far as the Utley MVP talk goes, I've said it before and I'll say it again: you can forget it. Being on the DL will effectively disqualify him in the eyes of too many voters for it to matter. Baseball writers have too many checkboxes when they're voting for things like this, and in their minds that'll be one that they can't check off. I don't like it and I think it's small-minded and stupid, but I believe it's there.

As for Howard, I think he's going to get dinged when they compare this year's numbers to last year's. Again, it's a stupid argument, but then, most baseball writers aren't known for being the brightest guys in the room, if you know what I mean.

Actually, I think you could make a real strong case for Jimmy as well. Certainly much stronger than Jose freakin' Reyes.

Based on nothing but gut feeling, if Moyer keeps struggling, I can see him retiring and not sticking around for the money. Hopefully, Gordon does the same thing.

@BENTZ -- according to baseball-reference, those were the only 2 game ending homers (Abreu/Utley) last year.

I hate Bomani Jones:

After Aaron Rowand's swinging bunt tickled the third-base line like a perfectly tossed battery, Ryan Howard's 10th-inning shot off Guillermo Mota gave the Phillies a 4-2 victory over the Mets. The Phils are now four games off the NL East lead, close enough that Phillies fans are starting to get their hopes up. They may not have looked this happy since before Game 6 of the '93 World Series -- you know, the game when Joe Carter stomped on the hearts of Philadelphians with a Series-ending home run off Mitch Williams. Yeah, that one must have hurt real, real bad. And, on a somewhat related note, go Braves! (That's right, I'm hating. The trade deadline seems oh so long ago.)

On the Moyers discussion, I too, believe this is his last season.

RE: Bomani Jones: I guess 1 World Series win with 14 playoff appearances under Cox hurts a lot more than you'd think.

Hating on the Phillies??? I don't get it.

Mike Cunningham - thanks. I thought those were the only two. I have an unhealthy obsession with walk-off home runs. Maybe it's because I played all through high school and college and never had a walk-off hit of any type in my life (game-winners yes, walk-off no). Fortunately I saw Utley's and Ruiz's in person - first two I had ever seen in person except for one during my junior year of college for my collegiate team.

Anyone NOT better than the Phils?
(just kidding)

My doubt actually is that I don't think it's so cut and dry. The Pods and Snakes don't hit too good (or too well, either). But we all know that pitching wins championships, and both teams (along with the Dodgers) are better than the Phils in those categories.

As to whether the record will be the sole indicator of who a better team is - since those three have to play each other, they might end with worse records than the Phils and still be better teams.

All academic, though, since we're gonna catch those Muts ;-)

On the Moyers discussion, I too, believe this is his last season.

If that's the case, he should replaced Dubee.

On another topic, is Manuel coming back next season? If the season were to end today, I have no idea what would happen.

Bridoc10, I agree the key from now on is to win and play your hearts out. I can't see a WC coming from the Central. So with AZ, LA, CO and SD all in the race, I'm hoping they beat up on each other up and play .500. We still need to shoot for the division, and take the wildcard as it comes. The division is the only one we can truly control. And have a great time in Ireland.

As to Bomani Jone's comment, who cares, but in case he wants to know the '64 Phils collapse still hurts more, at least we got to the dance in '93.

Sorry folks I'm old.

Thanks, Gramps. Been really looking forward to it. We're going to celebrate my Dad's 65th. It's just Dad, Mom, two brothers and me. I'm 32, so this will be the first 'family' vacation in about 15 years or so.

Back to baseball...I can easily see the NL West teams just beating on each other and opening the door for the Phils. But the division should be our focus.

If the Phils somehow make it into the playoffs, that Victorino steal may turn out to be one of the biggest plays of the year. Everyone in that whole stadium knew he was going...and that he had to go early in the count to give Rowand a legit chance to bring him home. I was a base-stealer when I played, and I can tell you...nothing gets the adrenaline pumping then when you/the catcher/the pitcher all know you are stealing...and you do it anyway.

102: "that Victorino steal may turn out to be one of the biggest plays of the year."


I have a feeling that if the Phils make the play-offs there are going to be (and may have to be) others just as big. We may look back and see all kinds of memorable moments as indicative of extraordinary effort and talents and a smile from the baseball gods.

Actually we have two options with the west. They can beat up on each other or one gets really hot and beats up on the other 3. Worst case is two hot and two cold.

P.S. to Bridoc10, I'm your long lost uncle and would like to see the family again. I had to try.

Just ask the 2004 Red Sox how big a stolen base can be to change a team's fortunes.

Then again I was convinced the Phillies were going to the playoffs in 2005 after David Bell's HR in Cincinnati.

One team in the NL West getting really hot doesn't affect the Phillies. Someone after all has to win the division. One team beating up on everyone else (say SD) could actually be helpful rather than everyone beating each other up. Someone will fall out of the race too - most likely Colorado and the Phils can help that. Someone will pull away - my guess eventually is SD. That leaves AZ and LA.

Come on along, Gramps!

The Padres might be fitting into your "one gets really hot" criteria right about now.

AZ's been doing it with smoke, mirrors and Brandon Webb. Maybe they're starting to fade a bit. And the LAD don't scare me, even if they took 2 of 3 from our boys.

@The Other Kevin -- If Utley finishes with the batting title and the top 10 in RBI, retain the league lead in Doubles, he's going to get votes. Voters look at final stats and rankings. And will be MORE impressed that he was able to stay in the lead or in the top 10s in categories while losing a month.

When Howard won ROY, did they penalize him because he didn't start the season? NO.

This years MVP vote will be interesting because there are so many candidates, but NO overwhelming candidate... which means we may be surprised about. But I'm sure it will come down to, who has the Best September... and after the last 2 nights... Chase, J-Roll, AND Ryno are all making a case for themselves...

But I'm sure it will come down to, who has the Best September... and after the last 2 nights... Chase, J-Roll, AND Ryno are all making a case for themselves...

The problem there is that they may split the vote. One of those three will have to have HUGE month to get the nod.

I couldn't care less if they make the postseason.

I agree with people who have said our most likely way into the playoffs is an arizona collapse. We all know they are not as good as their record indicates, and bullpens are really hard to count on to be dominant through a whole season. San Diego is a better team than we are, and than Arizona is, so I don't see them having a sub-.500 month. But I can see Arizona doing what Milawukee has done in August.

Also, Tray, I would, in fact, trade Howard for Hughes and Chamberlain. Maybe I'm crazy, and I know this is the worst time to bring this up in light of what the Big Guy did last night, but I would happily take 2 A pitching prospects (both aged 21) who anyone can see are both studs for a glorified Adam Dunn. I love Howard, trust me, I do, but I think that any rational GM would do that trade.

Dare I mention the Chico Ruiz steal in '64 that did in the Phils [at least for that game] Told you I'm old. I agree, a single stolen base can change a season.

Awards are great for individuals, but the best reward is a ring and those are given to teams. Personally, lets get the rings.

So let me get this straight:

When Manuel does something dumb we are supposed to string him up but when he does the right moves in a game to win we are supposed to ignore that?

As was said- give him credit for last night. And give him credit for taking the opportunity to set the mood for his ballclub Monday night when the chance arose

Mike C – I hope you're right, believe me. However, every MVP discussion I've heard, be it on TV or radio, is already discounting Chase because of the time on the DL. I don't think I'm wrong, but I hope I am. And the ROY argument doesn't really hold water; typically, there are only a few rookies who are even in the discussion. The competition isn't nearly as tight for ROY, nor does it carry nearly as much prestige as the MVP. Guys with only partial seasons are historically almost never discounted.

And, for the record, I agree with Bridoc10 – if I had to pick, I'd much rather make the postseason and let someone else take home the other hardware.


Whether we, as fans, want to admit it or not, this team has had to endure a TON of injuries. I believe that Manuel deserves a lot of credit for keeping this team afloat and putting them in a position to play meaningful baseball in September.

I often scratch my head at his boneheaded double switches and his allegiance to washed up veteran relieves - e.g. Mesa and Gordon - but I think he has a pretty good job overall.

Would Leyland, Torre, or Connie Mack have fared better? I think that's all speculation.

The Other Kevin - If Chase has a monster month and gets 105-110 RBIs, 25-30 home runs and leads the league in hitting, there is no way he is not in the discussion. Everyone knows that tv and radio banter is just that, and talking heads change their tune with whichever direction the wind is blowing

but it would take a monster month. The kind of monster month the Phils need Chase to have to win 21 more games

True story, I was thinking of cancelling my service so I figured I'd log in one last time, not knowing the score and the first thing I see is Howard's bomb to win. I think baseball is fixed, because now MLB will get another month of fees from me lol.

Those who are suddenly praising Cholly really seem to have short memories. As I recall, we just got done losing 3 series in a row, including 2 to our direct WC rivals, & a few of those losses were due in no small part to our manager's odd-ball substitution & bullpen moves. When we wind up losing the WC by a game or two, these losses will be the reason.

Yes, Cholly pushed all the right buttons last night, including the pinch running move -- which finally paid off. However, I have never had a problem with Cholly's pinch running decisions in games where the Phillies are LOSING. When you're losing, there's no real downside risk to pinch-running, so you do whatever you can to increase your odds of scoring. My problem is when he does that same move in games where they're tied or winning by a small margin. In those circumstances, you do have to think about the downstream consequences -- like the fact that, if you pinch run for Burrell, you substantially weaken the batting order later in the game. The move has come back to bite Cholly at least 30 times over the last 3 years because, with the Phillies' horrible bullpen, the other team invariably comes back to tie or take the lead, forcing Burrell's spot in the order to come to the plate in a critical situation.

Curt: Yes, you are supposed to give Manual credit for that. God knows that if Vic. got thrown out stealing or if Meyers gave up a bomb in the 10th that everyone would be saying today that Charlie didn't do it right.

I don't think he makes the best in game moves all the time (no manager does), but I also think that everyone who gets on him so much needs to be acknowledge his good moves as well. If not, it only tells one side of the story.

Rules of Baseball:

1. You are not a fan if you don't believe you can judge talent better than the scouts.

2. You are not a fan if you don't believe you can make better trades than the General Manager.

3. You are not a fan if you don't believe you know the perfect lineup for a game, the exact time to remove a pitcher, the correct pinch-hitter or correct reliever.

4. You are not a fan if two consecutive losses make you lament to the baseball gods that the season is over.

5. You are not a fan if two consectutive wins doesn't make you proclaim to the world "we are the best."

6. You are not a fan if you don't remember every terrible play for your entire life.

7. You are not a fan if you can't enjoy the best damn game in all of sports.

Feel free to take exception or add as you see fit.

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EST. 2005

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