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Tuesday, August 21, 2007


Re-post from last thread...

From the Phils doctor:

Hamels will have an MRI and miss at least one start and perhaps three weeks. (If a doc says maybe three weeks, he probably means "we know it's at least three weeks.")

Utley will likely have a weekend rehab assignment and could return to the Phils on Monday if there are no set backs.

Victorino could retun to the Phils by tomorrow.

Bourn is likely two to three more weeks away.

Zagurski is done for the season.

Madson could be back for the final week of the season.

Eaton will throw in a bullpen session Wednesday. (He's the reason why I don't think Gillick will look at the waiver trade wire... I think Eaton moves into Hamels spot in the rotation and every crosses their fingers.)

I pray for good MRI news

What a bummer! Anybody other than our stopper. Eaton Crap!

Congrats to Carlos Carrasco for a 6 inning no hitter tonight at Reading.

No, folks Eaton is NOT our next best option. He hasn't pitched a good game in weeks and was so bad, he lost his spot in the rotation to a guy who was released twice this year, a guy who was called up from AA ball and a guy with 12 losses. All were/are pitching much, much better than him.

The best (and only) option right now is Happ. He has 5 straight really good starts going at AAA. He is throwing strikes and striking out 1 hitter per inning in the last month. He was regarded as a better prospect than Kendrick by most everyone. At this point, if it comes to it, why not give him a few starts? With the way the year has gone, it just might work out. Eaton had chance after chance after chance to show something. He failed.

The unheralded (i.e. cheap) guys have kept this team afloat all year long. Time to try another one (at least for 1 start).

Jason - Hamels pitched 181.3 innings last year including his time in the minors. He's just at 167.3 this year.

I'm thinking the Carrasco-Barrajas battery replaces Eaton-Barrajas battery. The former is perfect since it is a no hit all around - Carrasco allows no hits and Badarajas gets no hits as well.

Seriously, I agree Happ is probably the guy since he is on the 40 man roster and is mature and has been strong of late. But I'd love to see Gary Knotts get a shot. He, Coste, Dobbs, the youngsters, the past their prime Bullpenners, a re-energized Burrell, a base-stealing Howard it is definitely a team that Philly fans would love to see battle for a spot. Much of the team would view this as their only shot or last chance. It is a feel-good story and another Chris Coste book waiting to happen.

One more note, even though Rowand and Ruiz never made it to the dl both were banged up and unavailable for a few games as was El Pulpo and his sore foot.

Nice headline, by the way. Whatever happened to that "Everybody hits!" guy?

In the new stadium, the "everybody hits" guy no longer has a seat near a microphone. Phillies broadcasts have not been the same since.

Phillies are back in first in the Wild Card and that's in spite of the fact that Manuel did his typical let the pitcher hit one inning and then immediately pull him, because he left him in too long, then go to an ineffectual reliever (this time Mesa).... Luckily Romero, Gordon, and Myers were having nothing of it and shut down the Dodgers the rest of the way.

The Phillies have played around with this Wild Card so many ways over the last four seasons, I've got a great new idea, how about hold onto it every day for the last 45 days of the season - that would be both new and refreshing - here's hoping it will happen - Go get 'em again tomorrow Phils!

If Garcia is more healthy than he was, he is the best option when ready. I hate saying it. He obviously doesnt care about the team, but he will want to show he can pitch as will want a decent contract next year.

And Denny B is right - we know what Eaton can do. It isnt good. Id rather give Happ a 2nd chance.

""The unheralded (i.e. cheap) guys have kept this team afloat all year long. Time to try another one (at least for 1 start).""

It was mentioned that Kendricks would get hit harder tonight as it was the second time for the Dodgers to see him. That was true but he held in there.

The unheralded MisPhits seem like the best option as players have never seen them.

Marty Bystrom lives...

Well, I went to see the game, and the only insight I can offer is that it was very cold and wet. Hopefully Hamels is alright.

Seeing the words Cole Hamels LEFT ELBOW TENDERNESS-was the equivelent of seeing your fiance/future wife pop up in a porn movie you are watching + Mike Wallace(60 minutes)showing up at your doorstep w/ a film crew. PURE TERROR!Get well Cole-your in our prayers. If I hear the words Tommy John tomorrow I may seek refuge in cancun w/ the hurricane.

here's what i'd do for thursday. remember last year when aaron fultz started a game? i'd do that same sort of thing, but have castro start and expect maybe 4-5 innings tops, keep him on an extremely short leash, and have condrey ready. this is assuming real deal gets us at least 6 tomorrow, otherwise condrey gets used then and happ probably gets called up.

I disagree..I dont even want Castro in for mop up duty

"It was mentioned that Kendricks would get hit harder tonight as it was the second time for the Dodgers to see him. That was true but he held in there."

Seems to me Kendrick was actually better tonight than he was in his earlier outing against L.A., in which he took the loss after allowing 7 hits and 5 runs over 5.1 innings. Tonight, he gave up the same number of hits but 1 fewer run over 6.2 innings. And it's worth mentioning that two of tonight's hits were fairly weak, and one of them should have at least been kept in the infield by Iguchi to save a run.

Not saying Kendrick was phenomenal tonight, but he deserves more credit than the above, especially because it was the second time around for most of the Dodgers' hitters.

The Phils would be hovering at .500 if it wasnt for Kendrick. He has had one outing that was not good (first time against LAD). Other than that, he has kept us in every single start at least that I can remember. Actually, we still almost won that game in LA where he started.

Myers, Hamels, Eaton, Moyer, Garcia
Kendrick, Moyer, Loshe, Durbin and someone.


The following five players have started every August game so far (18 games). Here are their lines:

Rollins - .250 BA, .356 OBP, 2 HR, 7 RBI, 18 R, 8 K
Iguchi - .295 BA, .333 OBP, 0 HR, 5 RBI, 7 R, 15 K
Burrell - .281 BA, .382 OBP, 5 HR, 13 RBI, 9 R, 19 K
Howard - .206 BA, .303 OBP, 4 HR, 13 RBI, 10 R, 29 K
Rowand - .212 BA, .316 OBP, 6 HR, 11 RBI, 15 R, 23 K

Rollins is about the only one doing well - he's getting on base and has scored a run per game. Iguchi is hitting well, but not with much pop, and I wish his OBP was higher. He's also not scoring much. Burrell is getting on base but not driving in a lot of runs. Howard and Rowand have been atrocious, but went a combined 3-for-8 last night, when Howard did not strike out once. They both really need to step it up a bit. Meanwhile, the bottom four spots in the order collectively has 42 RBIs for August, compared with the top five's 49.

Casey: Dang me! You're right. Thanks for the correction. Totally forgot to include his minor league service for 2006.

I liked what Mitch Williams had to say about the Hamels' injury following the game. Basically he said that he didn't agree with the "innings" theory because 167 innings isn't all that much, because pitchers used to go 300 a season and even he himself pitched 107 in relief one year. He also said it's a big concern because injuries around the elbow can mean very bad things. And we all know the Phils haven't exactly been forthcoming with truth.

I seriously wonder if the Phils make an offer to David Wells now or try to get Steve Traschel for a month rental...not that I think that's a good idea.

ajc1: Just as an indication of how powerful this offense is, those mediocre RBI rates for Burrell and Howard would project to 117 for 162 games.

I can't believe this nonsense. I hope it's just a precaution and he misses only a start.

If he's gone for 3 weeks, then it's time for everybody to panic.

Bludgeon 'em boys !!

This has to fire you up !

The injury totals are rather incredible. Someone mentioned the Mets have had injuries, but no team has lost all but one of its pitchers in the starting rotation except for one like the Phillies. Moyer is the only one in the opening day rotation to not be on the DL or hurt at some point. Strange that the guy is 45 years old.

Equally incredible is the determination and grit that this team has shown when it would be very easy to get down. I think the clubhouse leadership of Utley, Moyer, other vets has made this team stick in there. One might assume that the veteran bullpen is less likely to be shaken after horrid nights like those in Pittsburg. The offseason moves (for position players) at this point, while not jaw dropping have worked relatively well. Interchangeable parts like Werth and Dobbs are really filling in well. Barajas and Helms have been dissapointments, but they have been substantially replaced. Burrell coming around is like we added a power bat at the deadline. Maybe Gillick has one more card up the sleves for these moments under the gun (Hamels injury). If he could pull another starter from his backside and Hamels can rest up till later in the season, this team could do this. Insert Utley, move Iguchi to third base, and the Phillies have he best infield in the National League (If they didn't with Uts, Howard, Rollins anyway). Outfield looking good once vic returns. Werth has been a godsend recently, and hopefully can translate it to the bench role. Aaron Freaking Rowand, man this guy has come up for us this year. Cheers to muscle magazines Mr. Shoulders. He's putting a lot more weight on them than we all thought was possible to begin the year.

Basically he said that he didn't agree with the "innings" theory because 167 innings isn't all that much, because pitchers used to go 300 a season

That's what I was asking about last night. Lefty threw over 300 at least once or twice. And Hamels best pitch by all accounts is his change; it's not like he's rearing back to throw 97-mph on every pitch. 167 innings is nothing compared to what pitchers used to throw routinely.

Oh, and let's follow this over the next couple of weeks: if, for instance, Hamels goes on the 15 day and misses, say, 3 starts, we should chart the record of those three starts. How many games does his injury end up costing them? One? Two? Does it reverberate further in the bullpen having to be used more?

That's how we'll measure. In the meantime, here's praying to the FSM that the MRI turns up the minimal possible. (Although I fear that CJ is right that when the doctor says up to three weeks he knows at least three weeks ...)

Werth has surprised me. He's done very well since his return. .809 OPS, 6 homers on the season is pretty decent for a bench guy with only 140-some at bats. Along with Dobbs, you can't complain about the fill-ins. They've proven to be more important parts than Wes Helms, who was supposed to be a difference maker. Take Barajas out of the equation, and realizing the limitations of Nunez, and you've got yourself a pretty sold bench this season, including Coste, Bourn, Helms, Dobbs, Werth and now Branyan.

Back to the Madson anticipated date of return, who comes up with that he may be back for the last week of the season?? Seems like a random date at best.

Anyway, I hope everything with Cole is minor and that he will be back on the mound sooner rather than later.

~ Get Well Soon Hamels ~

~ Thanks for all you have done for us so far ~

i agree that happ is the best option. that said, i would be surprised if eaton didn't replace hamels.

Jon, regarding Madson, this was in Todd Zoelecki's notes:

Ryan Madson (strained right shoulder) has not started to throw. Based on a strength test, Madson said his shoulder is about 50 percent. "He's a good ways out yet," Manuel said. Ciccotti said that if Madson returned, it could be for the final week to 10 days of the season.

best thing about adam eaton is that we can't see him until monday. his DL stint was retroactive to august 12, so the earliest we could see him is august 27.

My level of optimism surrounding Madson and his ability to help the club this season and beyond is next to none. The combination of workload, mechanics and frequent trips to the DL spells trouble.

Unless somebody changes his name to Marty Bystrom, we're screwed.

I'm just hoping we still have some live bodies left between now and the roster expansions. Beyond that if Cole ends on the DL today, I'd rather take my chances with Happ then a washed up vet. In all honesty, the "kids" have held this season together more than I would have expected.

Spahn and Sain and pray for rain might have worked for the Boston Braves, but for the Phils is down to "pray."

parker: Your belief that Iguchi can play 3B is based on what exactly?

Kells, that was funny dude.

Clout, you are right no evidence in Iguchi's past that he can play 3B. Not much evidence this year for Helms either. Dobbs can play some, but his range and arm aren't the best. We have Nunez, but someone needs to explain to him that the bat is meant to hit the ball. Can Iguchi play third? I don't know, but I'd sure give it a try.

Thanks Gramps.

It's amazing the amount of times No-Hit Nunez swings at the first pitch and hits a weak ground ball out...he disgusts me!

Any word on Victorino for tonight?

Where's Tomas Perez now that we need him? I'll be at the game tomorrow. Please don't tell me Castro will start.
On the free agent front, any thoughts about the Phils going after Carlos Silva? Decent sinker-baller, probably cheap, can't be worse than Eaton.

Where's our liveblogging from the MRI facility! I wanna know when they're injecting the dye! When the arm goes into the machine! Is it making those k-nocking noises? What do they sound like? What kind of expressions are on the technician/doctors faces?

You know, cause otherwise I may have to go and get some work done.

Gramps: This has been posted before, but bears repeating. Iguchi played some 3B in Japan years ago but was moved to SS because of his arm. Gillick has stated flatly that Iguchi won't play 3B. It's a nice fantasy though.

It's settled...

This team WILL make the playoffs. You know...because everyone loves a good underdog story!

Get well, Cole...soon!

Clout, he was a SS and move to 2B after arm surgery. I'd still give it a try. And I wonder if Charlie feels the same as PG on this one. Personally, if I was Cholly and I felt it's worth a try I'd do it...heck my job is on the line either way. If Pat don't like it fire me today. And I reallly think you need a stronger arm at SS than 3B, not often a thirdbasemen needs to make a throw from deep in the hole on the grass in leftfield. And I'd still give it a try.

If I'm not mistaking, hasn't Hamels already had TJ surgery as a kid? I thought i read that here a few months back in some thread?

Can someone have two tj surgeries?

mm - It's possible but rare and the success rate is well below 50%. I don't think Hamels has ever had it though.


He broke his arm in high school, if that's what you're recalling.

Cole has never had TJ surgery.

elbow tenderness is not the end of the world. we need to wait for the mri. yes, t could be tj, but we haven't seen a decrease in velocity, or control, so there is hope that this is just soreness.

You're right, Alby. But here's the August RISP numbers for the five regular starters ...

Rollins .188
Iguchi .250
Burrell .211
Howard .125
Rowand .143

Another person who wnats to bash Charlie over last night?

He actually did a really good job working guys into the game and using the bullpen when needed. The Helms move was good but it just didn't work out.

As one of the biggest Charlie-haters out there, I must admit I thought he did a decent job managing last night's game. One criticism (I'm hoping that someone can shed some light on the subject for me) - why did he pull Kendrick with two outs in the 7th for Mesa (another righty)? Why not let Kendrick face Furcal and bring Romero in to face Pierre if need be (which he did after Mesa walked Furcal). Why bring Mesa in? Was Kendrick's pitch count so high that he couldn't face on more hitter? That's the only criticism I had. Otherwise Charlie didn't do too bad.

Should read "one more hitter?"


The Phillies are tied for the wild card lead despite having injuries now to five of the six pitchers in their preseason rotation (granted, the Hamels injury hasn't technically had an effect yet and the Eaton "injury" may not have been much of an injury) as well as their top two other bullpen arms (Gordon and Madson). They also have lost significant playing time from the 2nd, 3rd and 4th hitters in the lineup.


If I told you our injury list this year would include Hamels, Garcia, Lieber, Myers, Eaton, Gordon, Madson, Howard, Utley, Victorino and Bourn... and all those players would miss significant time (either in length or time of year)... there's little chance any of us would predict they'd have the wins they have today. lists Fabio Castro as the starter for Saturday's game against the Padres. He'll face Greg Maddux.

MPN: i don't see Castro listed on as Saturday's starter. were you looking at the probable pitchers page?

Maddux is pitching Friday.

Clay Hensley is pitching Saturday for SD.

Right now, I have seen Lohse scheduled for both Friday and Saturday's games. Obviously, its the Saturday game that a starter will be needed.

One thought about Eaton: Maybe the Phils plan is to start Castro on Saturday (which I think is foolish, when you have a starter in AAA that is scheduled to pitch on Saturday and has been pitching really well anyway) and give Eaton a start against the Mets early next week (because the one team that Eaton has pitched well against this year is New York).

But, who knows...

If it wou;d be July or something I would be all for giving Iguchi a tryout over at third but considering it will be September and we are real close to being in the playoffs- I'd ratehr take my chances with what we have over there.

Up next
• Thursday: Phillies (Jamie Moyer, 11-9, 4.97) vs. Dodgers (Chad Billingsley, 7-4, 3.63), 1:05 p.m. ET
• Friday: Phillies (Kyle Lohse, 7-12, 4.61) vs. Padres (Justin Germano, 6-7, 4.18), 7:05 p.m. ET
• Saturday: Phillies (Fabio Castro. 0-0, 12.27) vs. Padres (Greg Maddux, 9-9, 3.90), 7:05 p.m. ET

Jason, you mentioned the bunting. There were three excellent bunts by the Phils last night. The execution of small ball at the right time cannot be overstated. If we see similar results, especially from pitchers, they stand a very good chance of "winning by outslugging" that we will need in the next 12 games.

Truth, you nailed it, we are coming up on September and we are close. I respect your sticking with status quo, but status quo has been falling short for how many years? I don't like any of the 3b options, but I wouldn't "not" give Iguchi a chance because it's late August and not July. If it works much the better for the Phils, if not, what was lost from giving it a try?

All of this complaining about injuries... as if injuries aren't to be expected in professional sports. Every team has them, some worse than others. The good teams (the NL East leader) win despite them.

Iguchi will play 3B the day after Coste gets a start there.

I see we're still 5 behind NY, basically where we've been since May. The WC lead is a shock, though, and a testiment to parity in this league. It will be fun to see how long we can hang around with KK-Moyer-Durbin-Lohse-? I'd take the Nat's rotation in a heatbeat over that bunch.

Oh Durbin, what fun will you bring us tonight?

People seem to be underestimating the impact of Hamels missing up to three weeks. Here are the starts Hamels will likely miss if he is out the next 3 weeks:

8/22 Dodgers
8/27 Mets
9/1 @ Marlins
9/7 Marlins
9/12 Rockies

If the Phils move up Durbin into Hamel's spot in the rotation, I see the Phils going 3-2 at best and that is being optimistic. 2-3 and even 1-4 is possible given that their is not any really "gimme" games among those five starts.

So basically Hamels' injury means at least a 1 or 2 game swing in the loss column for the Phils. Additionally, not having Hamels out there means that there is going to be additional wear and tear on this bullpen since Durbin is a 6-inning type guy. No real silver lining here unless Hamels isn't seriously hurt.

One thing that should help the Phils is when the rosters expand on Sept. 1 but they won't have to be creative with shuffling guys between the DL and the 40-man roster.

Eude Brito! Come out, come out, where ever you are!

Will Carroll didn't have much to write about Hamels today, probably because there's not yet any real information, but he did throw this in:

"There's already been some discussion internally on whether he'll need scoping to get a look at that [ulnar collateral] ligament."

@Dave X -- The Mets have not been impacted by injury at the rate and severity that the Phillies have. I'm sorry...

They have 4 pitchers not named Pedro with 21 or more starts. The Phillies have 3 pitchers with more than that. And one of them is Eaton.

Our closer has pitched in 32 games. Theirs? 53.

Of the top 3 infielders on each team. Which team was impacted more by injury? Reyes, Wright, Delgado or Rollins, Utley, Howard???

The Mets outfield has been impacted a little more than the Phillies with Alou and Beltran.

The Mets have been hurt at Catcher but both starting catchers Ruiz (85) and LoDuca (89) have about the same amount of games played. (BTW, for all the Ruiz bashers out there compare his numbers with LoDuca, they are eerily similar.)

But on the whole the Phillies have been impacted MORE. Yet they have only the Phillies are tied for the lead in the Wild Card...

Both teams have had ineffective replacements (Mets have started 10 pitchers, the Phillies 11 which indicates that their replacement pitchers are at least as ineffective as the Phillies.)

Injuries are not excuses. In most sports, it's the HEALTHIEST teams that usually win. The same goes for baseball. Sure some teams can have more depth than others... but it's not really depth that has made the difference, it has been the sheer number and severity of injuries that have made the difference.

That and Adam Eaton has pitched 24 games.

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