Part of

« Seven-run seventh sinks Phillies’ chance of series win | Main | Hand specialist clears Utley to start swinging the bat »

Monday, August 20, 2007


Tickets for sale (from last thread)

Going Once, Going Twice:
2 tickets available for Thursday's Phils Dodgers game at 1:05. Section 137, row 5, seats 1 & 2 - $50 each (or best offer). Need to know by 4:00 today. Email me at

Mathieson actually was moved up from GCL to Clearwater, where he pitched an inning on Sunday: 1 IN, 1 H, 2 R, 1 ER, 2 BB, 1 K

Thanks for the update.

Get well Barajas!!!

We can't trade you to the Mets and submarine their divisional run-away without your health.

Glad to see Eaton is long-tossing, also. I guess that ego heals up quicker than I would have thought.

Barajas will go to the Mets and become the next coming of Endy Chavez.

Ken Rosenthal is reporting that Johnny Damon is interested in waving his no-trade clause for 2008 - the Phils are a potential destination.
If the Yankees paid 1/2 his contract, would you take Johnny Damon (assuming that the Phils fail to sign Rowand, which they most likely will)?
He can't throw, but he still has decent outfield range and would be a nice #2 or #6 hitter - would give the lineup some flexibility.

I'm not that excited about Damon. If we were to sign him, I would hope its only as an insurance policy in case Bourn doesn't pan out.

If we do get Damon, I hope he regrows his beard.

I wouldn't go that direction, either. That's old Phillies thinking. Damon is a player so clearly on the downslide of his career.

But wouldn't that fit in to the Phillies line of thinking perfectly?! They are getting a guy who at one time was a front line player. So what if he is getting a little old and slow and throws like a girl. The front office is out there going after stars to fill this lineup. If the Yankees are going to pay half of his salary, I really wouldn't be surprised if the Phillies did it. Especially if Gillick really is on his way out - he may bow to the "marketing dream" that is Damon.

I'm not saying I think they should do it, because I think they should run in the absolute opposite direction but the Phillies are getting a guy that will sell tickets, can be touted as a top shelf guy and is coming with part of his salary taken care? That's win-win-win from management's perspective.

I don't think you can really tout Damon as a top-shelf guy anymore. Most baseball fans are more knowledgable than that.

Damon? No no no no no no no.



This is the same managment that traded for a guy who's velocity was down considerably and told us (knowledgeable baseball fans) that his arm was fine.

Again I don't want any part of Damon but this just seems like bargain hunting (he makes too much to be part of the Value Village) that management would try and sell to the fans as trying to win. Because this would be their only move. Maybe I've just become very cynical about this ownership group.

Johnny Damon used to be good. Not anymore. Next!

For the record, I'm a lapsed Yankees fan. I was born and raised a fan of the Yanks, and my father and I used to go every Sunday. And this was during their awful 1986-1991 period.

I started losing interest in '99 when they traded Wells for Clemens. They got Giambi with the money that they extorted from people (through the YES network). This deal also made it so a quarter of Yankee fans (me included) could no longer get the games. THEN they made it their top priority to get every ass-headed ballplayer they could conceive of. Alex Rodriguez, Bobby Abreu, and that turncoat Johnny Damon.

How do you go from the Red Sox to the Yankees? F- him.

Not that anyone cared. I'm just still bitter.

Damon (w/ beard): looks like Jesus, throws like Mary. There's got to be somebody better if Rowand walks.

Um, I'd be very happy if my team got the best pitcher and best hitter of our time, but maybe that's just me.

Tray - the problem is neither of them have any character. You'll note how many rings A-Rod has. And Clemens only got his because the core of that 2000 team.

I posted the Damon thought b/c it was an intriguing idea to me, as I wouldn't have thought the Phils to be interested.
I will say that we have taken other outfielders on the downside of their careers (Kenny Lofton, David Dellucci) who were productive while here.
His attitude also seems like it would be inline with the attitudes of the current clubhouse.

Brio said it best..."throws like Mary".

The Mets got Jeff Conine. Now all they need is Barajas and the division is theirs!

Brio forgot the whole line:

Looks like Jesus
Acts like Judas
Throws like Mary

Well, you can blame A-Rod for signing with the Rangers, I guess, but it's not his fault that neither the Rangers nor the Yankees have put together very good pitching staffs in the years he's played for them. One player doesn't determine whether a team wins a World Series.

So, Gillick won't negotiate with Rowand for the potential home town discount during this season so we can get a streakier, lighter-throwing CF in Damon, while we already have two more CF's waiting in the wings in Victorino and Bourn (both of which I'd rather have starting in CF than JD next season)?????


I don't think that's why Gillick isn't negotiating with Rowand. I like Rowand, but I don't think i'd offer him a big contract, either. Based on nothing but gut feeling, I don't think he matches or comes all that close to his career year he's having.

Happy trails to Ricky “The Short Bus” Ledee” I’m going to miss him.

I should hope that Dr. Culp will be personally reporting to Beerleaguer momentarily?

What recent moves by the Phillies or by Pat Gillick suggest we'd try to trade for Johnny Damon?

If someone can point me towards the trade we've made for an overpriced, aging, declining name at a position we've already got major-league-ready depth in the system, I'll take back my question.

CJ I'm the one who thinks management would try and slide that one through. You're right they haven't traded for overpriced aging talent like Freddy Garcia but they have signed them as free agents like Rod Barajas. My point was not that they would do it or that I have inside information, just that I could see them doing it for these reasons.

Are we such cynics as to believe that the Phillies would really trade for Damon?
Of course, that's why we're discussing it. It is precisely the type of wrong move we continue to make. Like signing Barajas and sending Coste to the minors. Like signing David Bell and keeping David Bell and pinning our hopes on David Bell.

As to getting a 3B, who would you suggest? In the middle of last season, I looked around and thought: "Hmmm... we should give Wes Helms a try." Guess what?

My main fear is that we'll trade people that we shouldn't, like Gio Gonzalez. I could see someone in the organization saying, "Hey, we've got Chase, and really it's no sure thing that Adrian Cardenas will be a star. I'm sure we can get {substitute any name here} {though Damon would work} for him!"

After this past year I'm beginning to perceive the off season with more trepidition than hope.

That being said, I think we really need to get some BP help. Really this time, Pat. Really. Make an effort. get a couple relievers. Seriously. Pat, wake up, Pat. Wake up!!!!

...and send Barajas to the Mets for Colazo and Humber. With our blessings. Before Minaya comes to his senses.

(in my dreams of course.)

The Phils already have two centerfielders.

If they're going to get an outfielder in the offseason (and they should), it will be someone who plays the corners and hits from the right side.

... hopefully, they have picked up a few relief pitchers before they even think about picking up any position players at all.

Anybody think Andruw is worth the gamble (15-18 mill?) instead of paying Aaron 10 Mill? It may not cost too much more and the chance that this yr was an aberration is intriguing.. Or is he on the downside too? he is only 30 yrs old lifetime 263 with an avg of 34 hrs/yr.

sorry 15-18 mill is a bit more than 10 mill

Reposted rom last thread, Mets acquired Jeff Conine from the Reds for 20-year-old shortstop Jose Castro and 22-year-old outfielder Sean Henry, who were playing for Class A Port St. Lucie. I hope he chokes for then in some crucial situation like he did for us last year. I still remember his shoddy fielding from last year.

Zolecki reports that Utley received good news from Culp today, can start swinging again.

Sorry, url got cut off, but it's at the top of the sports section there.

I think Conine struck out about 5 times in extra innings during that 8-7 win over the Nats the last week of the season. I also remember some bad play he made in the field against the Astros where he just dropped a ball in the 9th that almost cost us a game.

awesome news on Utley...

The Mets blew it in getting Conine. If they really wanted to prepare for their up-coming sets against the Phils they should've traded for Kata.

If Rowand walks, don't you think it means they'd prefer to go with Bourn? (Remember him?) Why all this talk about someone on another team on the basis of a single, dubious rumor? I know it's an off day, but jeez, people...

First of all I want to thank Jason for that photo of Ricky Ledee. That look of total bafflement is no accident.

Second, hats off to new poster DJT for his list of pct. of runs scored via HR by team. There's a lot of nonsense on Beerleaguer, but there's also enough thoughtful stuff or revealing stats that make this required reading.

RSB: You don't get enough credit when you're right, probably because it's so rare. But you are 100% correct in your analysis (on prior thread) of Cholly's bullpen moves in yesterday's game.

Final thought: This pitching staff is like a tire with 5 punctures. The guy at the garage (his coveralls had "Pat" above the pocket) plugged them with rubber cement and said you're good for at least the next 100 miles. But you're 200 miles from home. You gotta hope those plugs give you a little more than they were designed for.

I for one am going to miss hearing my friend scream "Ledee rhymes with can't play" each and every time he came to town. See you later Ricky

Is anyone following the Marcus Hayes vs. thegoodphight showdown? I'm sure Beerleaguers would be falling all over themselves to excoriate Hayes if they knew how he responded to a blogger there who called him out. Great stuff.

While I don't entirely agree with Hayes here, it will probably surprise no one that I probably agree more strongly than anyone else who frequents this site.

At least it'll get you to stop talking about Johnny Damon.

My favorite Ledee moment? Kevin Milwood's no-hitter. Not only does he hit a home run to score the lone run. And catches the final out.

I don't want to turn this into RSB-is-right day... I don't think that's good for anyone ;-)

But, on the heels of clout's declaration, I'd like to say RSB is right again.

Why are we even discussing other CF's? If the Phils don't re-sign Rowand (and that's increasingly unlikely, I believe), then the next CF of the Phils is already on the roster... either Bourn (if no other OF is signed) or Victorino (if a RF is signed).

There is no way we pursue a CF in the offseason... and certainly not the overpriced, undertalented Andruw Jones or Johnny Damon.

Don't worry guys, once you realize that I'm even partially aligning myself with this, you'll be sure to heap the scorn right back on:

"OBP and OPS are geek numbers, especially for run-producers. I'd rather have my 3-4-5 guys drive the best strike they see rather than wait for the perfect pitch and jog down the baseline.

Sabremetrics are the bastion of wannabes who never could quite figure out which hand the mitt went on, a false industry created and fueled by people whose association with the game always will be vicarious, and, frankly, pathetic.

Offensively, scoring runs and driving runs in matter in baseball. Everything else follows.

That's it.

Ask any player."

How about we talk about something more immediate and thus relevant than any of that. I've brought this up before, but Kyle Kendrick is STILL scheduled to pitch tomorrow, with Hamels going on Wednesday. Now, if they move Hamels up to pitch tomorrow(which would be his regular rest), and then have him pitch every fifth CALENDAR day the rest of the season, he will get NINE more starts. If not, he will get 8 more starts just like everyone besides Lohse(39 games left). The way the schedule falls, this is the Phillies absolute last chance to do this. The way I worked it out, we'd be trading one Moyer start for an extra Hamels start. For a team that falls one game short of the playoffs every year, that could be a big difference.
Has no one else noticed this? Can someone call Cholly or Gillick? Jason, dedicate a post to this maybe? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills! I think it would be beyond moronic not to get an extra start out of one of the best pitchers in the league.

Two more things... if we don't do this he'd miss the Braves series the final week of the season. And if we do, he'd also be pitching on the last day of the season, so if we clinch before that, we skip him and he slides to our Game 1 starter.

Brian G - yes you are absolutely right of course. Seems like there should have been some way to use the day off to skip their fifth starter (heck, they should have been using every day off this year that way.)

Meanwhile Braves are winning 11-2 right now, so they'll be tied with the Phils again.

Assuming under your scenario we don't clinch until the last day of the season. Who opens the playoffs for you?

I'd have to go back and look, but I believe it could be Kendrick or Lohse.

And after 14 years... I honestly don't give a sh*t... I just want to get in and we'll figure it out from there.

Pitching lines from the minors tonight...

AAA- Happ: 6 IP, 6 H, 2 ER, 6 K's (left with lead, A. Garcia blows lead, no decision; outpitched former Indian LH stud Cliff Lee).

AA- Outman: 8 IP, 4 H, 0 ER, 4 K's (still one inning to go; likely will not go 9; he also went 3 for 4 with 2 RBI's at the plate).

You gotta get to the playoffs before worrying about who throws that first game. You put your ace in that last game to put yourself in the best position to win...I am vehemently against "saving" your ace for the first game of the playoffs, especially when I trust no one else in that role to win one game.

Alright you want some blue collar reporting? Or, at least, you know, some extensive googling around?

The following is a link to the Lakewood Blueclaws box score from tonight.

What may be interesting to folks here, of course, is the guy batting second (with apologies for the lack of formatting):

Victorino DH 5 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 .200

That's five at-bats, and a hit, and a run, which sounds like all parts were working okay.

Oh, and the Blueclaws won.

Even more detail (play by play available for every minor league game! God bless the internets!)

Lakewood Bottom 3rd
Quintin Berry strikes out swinging.
Shane Victorino singles on a line drive to left fielder Jared Keel.
Adrian Cardenas doubles (30) on a line drive to left fielder Jared Keel. Shane Victorino to 3rd.
Rod Barajas walks.
Gus Milner out on a sacrifice fly to center fielder Alexander Presley. Shane Victorino scores. Adrian Cardenas to 3rd.
Charlie Yarbrough pops out to catcher Danilo Sanchez in foul territory.

(I'll skip the part where Victorino struck out to a Single-A pitcher in the 7th.)

(And yes, I'll skip the part where Barajas does anything.)

RSB: I'm not sure who made that statement but it's very odd.

The phrase "Offensively, scoring runs and driving runs in matter in baseball." is 100% accurate. It's just common sense. And OBP and OPS are all about measuring the ability to score runs and drive in runs.

The logic of the above (is it from Marcus?) is like saying, "It's light during the daytime and that's all that matters. And people who measure brightness don't know anything about daytime." It makes me think the writer doesn't know what OPS and OBP is. Or maybe he should look up the league leaders in RBI and runs scored and he'll be shocked to find high OPS or high OBP.

Brian G: Your heart's in the right place on Hamels, but no sense in getting worked up about the rotation for the rest of the season. I have one word for you: "rainout."

clout: it was Marcus Hayes. The full statement - which seems to have been ignited by a disagreement over Pat Burrell (can you imagine!) - can be seen over at 'The Good Phight', complete with frantic rebuttal.

Does anyone ever question the makeup and possible lack of a progressive attitude in reference to the Phillies training/medical staff. Obviously Utley's injury could not have been avoided, but how many guys on the disabled list with muscle strains can this team have?? Do they teach these guys how to stretch?? Anyone else agree??? I'd be interested to hear from someone who knows about how the Phillies' organization is regarded in this area as compared to other major league squads.

Clout: valid point (and I can think of plenty of other reasons why there's no point in getting worked up), but it doesn't make sense to not at least set yourself up. Rainouts will probably happen, but they may be made up on off days, or they could have no effect on Hamels schedule. At the very least I'd like to hear a reporter ask the question. I wouldn't even mind if Cholly or Gillick said that he still hasn't thrown this many innings before and they don't want to risk overextending him, but I'd just like to get a sign that they've thought about it or have a clue.

Where's the Hayes/Goodphight fight? Didn't see it on Is it a recent thing?

You can find it here -

Also, I know its old news by now, but I'm sure Conine will come back to bite us in the arse in that mid-september series with the Muts.

BedBeard: It's in the comments section on the 3rd item down. Apparently Marcus was responding to a criticism by jonk of an article he wrote.

I have no idea what jonk's criticism was, but it was obviously of a sabremetric variety, which prompted Marcus' shot at geeks. I really can't take much issue with what Marcus says there, although he does make one absurd statement. He says that for Pat Burrell, "Any season with fewer than 110 RBI is a flat-out failure." I don't even think they set the bar that high for A-Rod. I suspect Phillies amangement would be happy with Burrell driving in 90-100 runs a year from the 5 hole, which he's done the last 2 years hitting behind Utley & Howard, but won't do this year.

You can't take issue with what Hayes said? How come when I say it, it's 'laughable'? Perhaps if I worked for the Daily News my words would have a better standing, too.

Regarding Burrell, Hayes probably has his contract in mind when he says less than 110 RBI is unacceptable. Considering the lineup he's been a part of, that assessment isn't far off at all.

Back from Yosemite and frankly not surprised the Phils imploded this against the Pirates. This bullpen is full of retreads and fringe guys and frankly I was surprised they had pitched so well the past 3 weeks. They were due to have a major burnout at some point. Just hope that they can rebound for what is arguably the most important stretch of the season for the Phils.

August Comparison:
Texiera: 9 homeruns and 25 RBIs
Howard: 25 strikeouts, .188 average

I am literally laughing looking at Howard's August #'s. It just goes to show how extreme he can be in regards to hot and cold. When he's cold- he can't hit a lick, barely makes contact. When he's hot- bombs away!

Mark my words- Conine will haunt us in a Mets series, he always kills the Phils.

Johnny Damon- only if we pay 2 mil of his contract, which means NO THANKS!

Thanks for the link, guys.

The comments to this entry are closed.

EST. 2005

Top Stories


Rotoworld News

Follow on Twitter

Follow on Facebook

Contact Weitzel