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Wednesday, July 18, 2007


Great non-save by Gordon. That's the big win from my perspective. Tonight's game will be key considering how Manuel gave up on Monday and the performance last night. Let's see if this team has any carry over.

I may have only been watching the Phillies for about 20 years, but I think it's fair to say this is the most ridiculous team we've ever fielded.

Wow. The Real Deal Durbin pitched a lot like his nickname suggests...even if it is completely tounge in cheek. Why even pinch hit Nunez anymore? The Phils have the red hot bat of JD on the bench.

This "scrape and paste" style of personel acquisition by Gillick may just pay off in this guy's case.

King: I agree with you. It's nuts!

"You seem to think that Gillick being here will somehow make a difference, as does 'from the district'."


Please take note that from the district has repented from his position as a PG apologist. I was blinded by my need to be eternally optimistic about my baseball team. Call me a flip flopper but I can admit when I am wrong. Pat Gillick sucks, just not as much as some people here think. But he sucks none the less.

or nonetheless

Willard, I felt a lot better about Gordon before reading today's Daily News story (link is at right). After a year, the Phillies are finally coming clean about his injury, a "slight tear" in his labrum. You really should read the whole thing to get the mealy-mouthed flavor of Ruben Jr.'s take on it. Short version: He feels it most when pitching on consecutive days. IMHO, that points to a tag-team approach between Gordon and Myers. Unusual circumstances require creative thinking; is management up to that challenge?

I don't know about everybody else, but if, in some unbelievable fashion, this patchwork pitching staff catches lightning in a bottle and helps the team to a playoff spot, I'd be offended as a fan of baseball.

Granted, I'd be the happiest Philadelphia sports fan you'll ever see, but a team with this kind of pitching personnel shouldn't even sniff a playoff spot, "Bronx Bombers, Philadelphia style" or not. I know they have little to no flexibility, thanks to bonehead moves and economic "limitations", but any team that employs Mesa, Durbin, Sanchez, Condrey and co. for more than an emergency game or two should be automatically banished from the postseason.

With that said, go Phils.

Alby, thanks for the heads up on the article. Unfortunately, I can't say that I am shocked that the Phils (or maybe just Gordon?) haven't been forthcoming about the severity of an injury and have been playing the "wait and see" game. Nauseating.

Funny, but the tone of the article suggests that Gordon KNOWS he can't be effective, but he doesn't want to miss out on another potential contract. Are we sure we even want to roll the dice with this guy. Forget even thinking about Gordon in a set-up or, God forbid, a closer role. He outwardly states that it hurts to pitch on consecutive nights!!!

Then again, I suppose the closer on a .500 team could just about get away with not having to pitch on consecutive nights.

from the district, gotcha.

I would modify you opinion somewhat. I don't think Pat Gillick "sucks" per se, but the job he has done since he arrived in Philadelphia has been "sucky", or in palin English, not very good.

He, by his own admission in an interview earlier this year, rated the job he has done as "average". I think he is being extremely generous to himself.

The difficulty I have with the job he has done is that he was hired to get this team, with the core of excellent young players it has, over the top NOW, the way Ed Wade never seemed to be able to.

Unfortunately, the pitching staff he has assembled (along with no depth) is not up to the task of getting this team to the playoffs, unless...

they average an incredible number of RPG.

That's a lot of pressure to put on hitters night in and night out. Hey, if they average 9 RPG the rest of the season I think they could win the division, but is that realistic? I don't think so.

As good as this team is offensively, I don't think they can overcome the lack of pitching. you and many others on this board, I still hold out hope, however unfounded, that they'll make the playoffs somehow. But realistically, no team with a league high ERA and -RPG has a chance.

John Heyman of CNNSI listed the biggest busts of the season and neither Garcia nor Eaton earned a mention. Instead, he counted Washington's Jason Simontacchi as a disappointment. Huh? Simontacchi is a total nobody who spent last season in the Atlantic League and was a non-roster invitee. What was he expecting? He's 6-7 with a 6.37 ERA. I'd call that a fairly reasonable effort from the guy.

I dont blame Gillick for the minor league system to be devoid of any 'ready' pitching ing talent, or any position player prospects. I give him credit for '86ing Abreu and saving money and working out a good deal on Thome, but ... giving Gio back to get a banged up Freddy Garcia is an idiotic move. You not only fail to exercise due diligence by getting an MRI (which they did for Borowski and voided their offer to him), but you wasted 10 million in the process. We are stuck with Burrell, not you PG's fault. But for the love of the game and money did he have to go out and get Barajas, a.k.a. the Sal Fasano Sequel. Another waste of money. I find no fault in Helms (even though like Nunez he was coming of a career year and could not have reasonably fulfilled thirdbase expectations), but the $15 million + spent on these deadbeats could have been used more productively - or even pocketed until the trade deadline. I hope PG has the sene in this offseason to go out and get some legit pitchers ... no position players needed (I'll take Dobbs at third base) ... thats right spend all the money on pitching ...

"offended as a fan of baseball"? please.

last year's Cardinals had one very good starter (Carpenter), one average starter (Suppan), and a bunch of garbage and rookies. Jason Marquis had a 6.02 ERA and started 33 games. their 4th/5th starter spot was held by the following pitchers: Mark Mulder (7.14), Anthony Reyes (5.06), Jeff Weaver (5.19), and Sidney Ponson (5.24). that rotation was certainly no worse than ours this year.

Suppan is better than average, ae, especially last season. He was a huge reason why the Cards stayed in it and won a title. His second half was very solid ...

exactly ae and they had no were near the hitting we have but it's called lightning in a bottle we just have to stay close get in then catch it. A rookie who hardly pitched for the Cards Wainright got MVP Carrasco?

Suppan's second half ERA was something like 5th or 6th lowest in the NL from what I remember.....In any event, why do they keep calling up Condrey, when he clearly isn't at the big league level?

Jason, I'm not denying that he was a big part of why they won the World Series, or that he was exceptionally good in the second half of the season (not to mention the NLCS). but he's a guy who last year gave up more than a hit an inning, struck out less than 5 per game, and had a 1.45 WHIP/4.12 ERA on the year.

to me, that's an average guy who managed to get hot at the right time.

ae: It's all about getting hot at the right time. Also, while you can make comparisons between the Cards rotation last year and the Phils this year, no such comparison can be made with the bullpens.

It looks like Gordon is going to have to be spotted carefully the rest of the year to be effective. I wouldn't count on him for more than 25 IP, if that. That means Myers and Alfonseca will have to shoulder the load.

This afternoon is another big test for KK. He's survived every pressure situation so far. As for the Phillies red-hot offense, Billingsley is no Mark Hendrickson. This guy brings Grade A gas. His control wavers from time to time, so the key is to be patient. But if he hits his spots with his 95 mph fastball, cutter, hard slider and 12-6 curve, he's no day at the beach. I wish the Phillies had a big stud like that to pair with Hamels.

Our 2009 Rotation

LHP Santana
LHP Hamels
LHP Savery
LHP Drabek
RHP Carrasco

There is a plan everyone. There is a plan.

it's a pretty good bet that Santana will end up pitching in CBP.

of course, he'll be wearing a Mets uniform at the time.

SirAlden: You may be shocked to learn that some prospects don't pan out. And when it comes to pitching prospects, MOST don't pan out. Since you've advocated 2 years of losing (this year and next) all for the greater glory of draft picks, what happens if Savery, Carrasco or Drabek don't pan out or are not ready for 2009? Also, who is that Santana? Julio?

ae - that was perfect.

Bartender! I'll have one of whatever SirAlden is having!

I'd rather the Phillies face a guy who throws 95 than a guy who throws 85 with control. The Phils this year dont really care if you throw 105 - they can catch up to it if you lay one over the plate from time to time

That being said, the act of writing this post just sealed the fact that Billingsly will go 8 innings of one hit ball

The Philadephia Phillies

Runs 1st
Hits 1st
2B 1st
3B 1st
HR 3rd
TB 1st
RBI 1st
BA 1st
OBP 1st
SLG 1st
OPS 1st

Hitting Priceless - Pitching almost Worthless


I should have clarified that the Cardinals offended me as well, not only as a fan of baseball, but as a purist who likes to see actual good teams win championships.

Of course, as I insinuated earlier, if this Phillies team somehow ended up being another mediocre team that steals a championship, my mouth will be instantly slammed shut.

king, fair enough. personally, I like the chance and randomness of the playoffs, but I can understand where you're coming from.

Free Agent Pitching Rarely works out

Carl Pavano anyone? 40 Million
Kevin Millwood anyone? 60 Million
Jason Schmidt anyone? 48 Million
Vincente Padilla anyone? 33 Million
Dannys Baez anyone? 19 Million
Scott Schoeneweis anyone? 11 Million
Joe Borowski anyone? 8 Million

I think SirAlden just called 610

Said he wouldn't trade Victorino for Ben Sheets.


Not to be a killjoy or anything, but your facts are wrong:

The Phillies are NOT 1st in triples, but rather in 4th.


SirAlden, I'm guess that when you put forth a 2008 rotation in April 2006, it no doubt included Floyd and Madson instead of Drabek and Savery. How did that work out?

There are literally dozens of pitching prospects in the minor leagues who are rated ahead of Drabek by professional talent evaluators (Savery isn't even on the charts yet). The irony of your list is that this is exactly the sort of exercise that Bill Giles used to engage in during the '80s. We spent 13 of 14 seasons below .500 as a result. Sorry, but I'll take intelligence, flexibility and money over "a plan" any day.

Yes, SirAlden, I'll take Borowski for 8 million, please. Oops, what's that? We decided Borowski wasn't healthy but Garcia was? D'oh!

SirAlden: Borowski leads the AL in saves. $8M for the league leader in saves? I'd say that's a pretty good deal. How does Borowski's save rate compare to the Phillies, by the way? How many blown saves in how many opportunities?

"Said he wouldn't trade Victorino for Ben Sheets."

I wasn't listening, so I missed the context in which this was discussed, but why would you trade for a pitcher who just started what is expected to be a 4 to 6 week stay on the DL? If you're talking about today, I wouldn't make that trade either.

I hit "post" before I meant to.
The call was basically "thank goodness we didn't sign/trade for any pitchers in the offseason" The caller neglected to mention Eaton/Garcia.

Re: Sheets for Victorino idiot caller

IF we were giving up for this season, but making moves with an eye on really setting this team up for next year, I'd make that trade right now.

"IF we were giving up for this season, but making moves with an eye on really setting this team up for next year, I'd make that trade right now."

If we were giving up for this season, and triggered it by making such a trade (which I doubt would look as good from Milwaukee's side, and therefore is just another exercise in onanism), I would sell any tickets I had for games later this year. Which is why I don't think you'll see any "giving up for this season" trades anytime soon.


utley now leads the NL in RBIs with 79. he's also posted six straight multi-hit games. he's 15-for-30 (.500) during that stretch and has a 10-game hitting streak.

how long until the mvp chants start at CBP?

At least until they're back in town next Tuesday.

/sorry too easy

how long until the mvp chants start at CBP?

I heard a few of them on Sunday evening.

He's having a monster year. And Ryan has crept near him in the RBI department. It's possible they will be 1-2 in that category in a few days time.

There is no way in hell Johan Santana will be pitching for the Phillies. He is going to want too much money for this management to pay, not to mention CBP has become a pitchers graveyard. Little Leaguers could hit bombs out of this park. Hitters probably hit more out of CBP then out of Coors Field, at least it seems like it.

Alden, you're hysterical. Only the most acute speculation in the universe would have Johan Santana in Phillies pinstripes, and yet you assure everyone that this constitutes a "plan". Someone needs to send you a Beerleaguer dunce cap. Loved your Howard Zinn-ish quote on Gillick from the last thread, though: "He is toiling for all of us." How inspiring!

Also from the last thread: AWH, often the Abreu-Stocker trade is cited as Wede's, but it was actually Lee Thomas's.

king myno: I agree with you completely. But don't worry too much, the Phillies will almost certainly stick to embarrassing us in the usual ways instead of as a hideous excuse for a playoff team.

I don't know what's most impressive about Utley's season, the Gwynn-like average, the RBI total, or the 39 doubles with well over 2 months to go. He has a chance to set club records (and possibly MLB records) for his position that will last a century.

Can we quit killing the Phillies for the "DUE DILLIGENCE" on Garcia. Borowski was a Free Agent with a history of injury. MRI's on trades are rare and are only in cases with players with a history of injury. If hte Phillies made it mandatory for MRI's for all trades... no team in MLB would trade with us, if the potential that a trade might not go through. In addition, besides paying for the MRI you have to shuttle them all in to town. To do your testing... Try doing that during the trade deadline ... or in the offseason when many players are in other countries or in Jim Thome's case duck hunting on a lake somewhere... And there's NO telling what the union would say about this...

The real fault lies not with the White Sox or Gillick, but in Garcia himself, who was hiding his injury so that he could score a big contract.

Mike, that's ridiculous. Physicals are routine as trade contingencies. Your defense doesn't hold water. The Phillies screwed up here, period.

Regarding Utley and the MVP...
If he finishes with the lead league in RBI and stays in the top 3... he should almost be assured of the MVP... but making the playoffs would help... I told my Dad a few years ago... that I thought Utley would win a batting title someday... EVEN though he doesn't walk alot, which hurts him. He's alot closer than I ever expected...

It's also nice to see the Reigning champ make a case for himself...

Mike C: There were stories in the Chicago press last season about Garcia's decreased velocity. If that's a red flag for amateurs like us, it should be for pros like Gillick, no?

Cunningham raises a good point on the difference between trades and signings when it comes to MRIs, but it's still pretty careless to throw away 10 million and a rather good prospect, sight unseen.

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