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Sunday, July 22, 2007


bay_area_phan -- As I said briefly above, RSB made a legitimate point, the essence of which you stated in the last thread.

Alby and Clout -- I must say that I was surprised by the Jose Molina trade to the Yankees for minor leaguer Jeff Kinnard -- in that the Yankees paid so little value for Molina. Jose Molina, a 32-year-old defensive specialist who has been in the big leagues since 1999, playing in MLB 373 games, with a .237 lifetime BA. Jose, however, is the middle brother of the "catching Molinas", with Yadier being about seven years younger. One partial explanation might be Molina's $1.35-million 2007 salary, up from the $850,000 that Molina made in 2006. But if that was deemed too expensive for the Angels to pay for a backup catcher who has played in 40 games so far, what does it say about Barajas costing the Phillies $3-million for a one-year commitment?

In light of the Molina-Kennard trade, it seems to me that there is no way that the Phillies would be able to get rid of Barajas, until and unless some other club loses their first *two* catchers.

Clout: No doubt, the salary relief from the Abreu trade was used stupidly. That's yet another reason why that was such a disastrous trade. In fact, at bottom, it is the main reason the trade was such a disaster. If a move is made purely as a salary dump, I don't see any other way to fully grade the move except by looking at what the money was subsequently used for.

When they made the Abreu trade, my first reaction was horror. My second reaction was: well, maybe it will turn out ok, if they use Abreu's salary to improve the team in other areas. If they had used it, for instance, to sign Iwamura & Suppan, I would absolutely have gone back & revised my view of the original trade. But, since they used it instead to sign Adam Eaton, Wes Helms, & Rod Barajas, no such revision is required.


I'm really just teasing you. 99% of what you've written about Chris Coste, I agree with. So I definitely think you've devoted your energy to a worthy cause. I just think you should expand the breadth of your cause a little bit. Your criticisms of the Germano trade are a good start.

I enjoyed the beautiful weather in San Diego last evening at the game.

A few observations:

1. Howard really is clicking, and the locals were in awe that someone could hit two HRs in that park as easily as he did.

2. Moyer pitched well, but seemed to tire in the 7th. He was over 120 pitches then, and knowing the bullpen, I'm not surprised Cholly left him in.

3. Madson, not Alfonseca, was warming up to close the game before the ninth inning explosion. As soon as we tacked on a few runs, Madson sat down and Condrey started warming up.

4. If you heard two distant boos on as Mesa came in to pitch, that was my brother and me. :)

5. I actually feel good that we can beat Peavy this afternoon. Everyone, even Wes Helms, was clicking last night. The Padres fans sitting near me were really surprised Wells was being knocked around like he was.

Getting back to the trade-deadline quandary - which will likely be re-emphasized after Durbin's outing today, unless lightning somehow strikes twice (breathe, J.D. In. Out. Gooood.) - even you will have to admit, clout, that this is pretty complex stuff. You said you didn't think the Phils would re-sign Rowand, yet you'd still be willing to trade Bourn? How many opportunities will the Phillies have over the next several seasons to insert a dirt-cheap position player into the lineup without resorting to wasting further resources on expensive stopgaps? If Rowand leaves, and Bourn is also gone, that's three positions in which the Phillies will be void of a legitimate starting player. You're the one talking about needing to get equal value, but this is all about selling your soul to the devil in exchange for a remote shot at glory. The other side gets perhaps the fastest runner in the sport, with a cheap contract, and with the potential to be being an everyday CF/leadoff hitter for a decade; the Phillies get a mediocre pitcher who may or may not last them more than nine weeks. I agree with what BAP said regarding 'equal value' in trades - often, the financial climate in baseball dictates value more than servicability - but at the trade deadline, equal value simply doesn't - can't - come into the equation. Sometimes it makes sense for a team on the cusp, and sometimes it's just not worth it. This would appear to me a case where it is not worth it. I simply do not believe that the average reliever or starter who could possibly be had for the price of Bourn could make enough of a difference for this team *now* to justify the loss of someone who can offer what Bourn can for this team. And I'm not saying Bourn is a sure thing. He might never pan out. But I personally believe he has a better chance to be more Kenny Lofton than Jeff Stone, and considering the state of the farm system - which must always be the foremost consideration, regardless of your 49-48 major league team - I think they have to keep him. I hear your point about draft picks and 'prospects' rarely fulfilling potentials, but the Phillies have been in this 'win-now' mode for five straight seasons without having won anything, and again on the outside looking in. I for one am tired of this illusory charade. The only way this team gets off its treadmill is by ceasing to compromise the future for the sake of a very dubious present and an impatient fan base.

On a completely unrelated note, I thought this tidbit in the Zo Zone was kind of cool: no major league player had ever had four extra-base hits in two separate games during the same month before Aaron Rowand, July 2007.

"The fact is, the Phils are playing better than the Mets, the Mets aren’t playing as well as they did earlier, and thus, the Phils have been able to slowly nibble away at their earlier lead.

Reality check:

Games behind NYM:

July 22 5
July 15 5
July 1 5
June 15 3
June 1 8.5
May 15 5.5
May 1 3.5

Each team is 6-4 over last 10 games.
The season is 60% over, not half.
Oh, & BTW, the Braves & Fish haven't gone away either.

rsb - Can't believe it isn't obvious that you don't dump a potential impact starter for a 9 week rental of a bad pitcher.

BAP: I agree.

Jason or anyone: Wasn't Matt Beech one of the 4 young Phillies starters that made the cover of a magazine (maybe Baseball America) around 1997? I think the headline was "Phillies Young Guns" and I think Dave Coggin was one of the others. These were 4 highly touted, can't-miss, pitching prospects who'd done well in the minors. My memory is that none of them ever panned out.

This appeared in today's Inquirer article:

Moyer, who threw a season-high 122 pitches, said he changed his workout routine during the week and thought it helped. He said he still felt strong in the seventh inning.

"I did everything the same - I just did it on different days to try to fool my body a bit," Moyer said. "I've done that before. You get to that point in the season when you're doing stuff . . . it's been - what - almost six months now? I've been doing it the same way. I think sometimes tricking your body a little bit refreshes you or reinvigorates you."

Translation - Moyer is a classy veteran who will not show his teammates in the bullpen or question a dumb decision by Cholly in print.

Clout - If I remember right, Beech and Coggin were both more highly touted by the Phils organization than MLB at large. A case of where the Phils were desperate to some good buzz on those horrendous late 1990s teams.

I looked it up and Coggin was the Phils' 1st round pick in the 1995 draft. Beech was a 7th round in the 1994 draft. Beech never really did much of anything before he had TJ surgery that derailed his career. Beech tried a comeback but I think he had TJ surgery on the same arm. Pretty much was the end for him. What ever happened to Coggin? I think he got injured too.

MG basically summed up my recollection of those mid-90s pitching prospects as more or less a deperate attempt for good buzz. I'm trying to remember some of the other guys. Brad Baisley was thought to be the Little Unit and was ruined by injury. There was decent buzz for Anthony Shumaker for a little while, but that was all generated by the Phils.

Hello everyone after a long absence I'm back..darn shouldn't say back. Inside joke, I had back surgery. Took me a few days to read all the posts and as always a good read.

Many good points have been raised and discussed to death on things that are no longer relevant. Still a good read. Should we or should we not sign Borowski is kind of moot point, just like trading Jack Sanford for Valmy Thomas and Ruben Gomez doesn't seem extremely important these days.

Whether Gillick has been right or wrong in the past is exactly that...the past. Ed Wade is gone, Lee Thomas...gone, Paul Owens...gone...John Quinn...gone. The discussion we have moving forward should be focused on the future and not the past.

One key question comes to mind as we look to the future. Do the Phils have a chance to win the division? [IMHO, they will not grab a wildcard]. That said, are we buyers or sellers?

What do we have to sell? The value is in the core of the team, little to offer from the AA or AAA teams. What can we buy? Not much with what we have to offer. Or do we just sit this one out and hope the offense carries the team?

One other thing, it is my understanding that teams have never given routine physicals to players involved in a trade. Doctors talk to doctors and that's pretty much the extent of it. I doubt very much that the White Sox gave Gavin Floyd a test on the strength of his mental capacity to pitch in the bigs. Free agents are always given physicals. Can we put this one to bed?

I'm in no position to offer solutions, so maybe I shouldn't say anything. Last winter I was preaching pitching, pitching and more pitching. That's still my mindset, but I've been out of the loop. I can't think of a small quick fix for the bullpen...maybe someone can?

It is time for the Phillies to sell and reload for 2008.

So let's each provide a realistic list of candidates to move. Each player must have some value given their contract, health and performance--so Burrell, Eaton, Gordon and Barajas are out. Here's my list:

Helms or Dobbs (but not both)
and, only for a promising young starter (Garza from the Twins, etc.), Victorino.

Yes, most of the players on this list of trade bait would not yield more than a 'B' level prospect by themselves. But B level prospects provide depth for winning teams--and a repeat of Cormier for Germano would work just fine, thank you.

I would keep Rowand unless an offer exceeded the value of the draft picks the Phils will get when he walks this fall.

'it is my understanding that teams have never given routine physicals to players involved in a trade.'

That isn't my understanding. I can't specifically cite any at the moment, but it's fairly commonplace to read that a trade is "pending the results of _________'s physical."

I disagree that the Phillies need to 'sell'. Everyone on that list can help the Phillies beyond this season, especially Madson and...Kendrick?!

I'm just trying to divorce my stance from this kind of notion. I don't think the Phillies should be giving anyone up cheaply.

RSB: I think the biggest difference here is our evaluation of Bourn. You think he can be Kenny Lofton. I think there is ZERO, as in NO, chance that he can be that good. Or even 75% that good. And I love the kid. But this team hasn't gone to the playoffs in 14 years. After this year, it could be another long while. The Tigers gave up John Smoltz to get Doyle Alexander and they won a World Series because of it.

RSB, I know I've seen that with the NFL, but can't recall it in relation to MLB. I could be wrong, just my understanding.

RSB, Kendrick reminds me of a young, healthy David Coggin--plenty of guts and athleticism, but no plus pitches and hence nothing more than a number 5 starter.

How many number 5 starters can the Phillies afford when they have at least two more (Moyer and Eaton) signed for 2008?

Mathieson can, and should, replace Madson in 2008.

The more I looked at this game on paper, the more it does not seem to be a total mismatch.

Peavy has been hittable at home this year while nearly untouchable (ERA under 1.00) on the road. Peavy has better a little bit better at Petco the past few seasons than on the road but not that much. Peavy is just a really good pitcher regardless of where he pitches.

Peavy has also annihilated right-handed bats this season to an OPS of .493 with a brutal slider (his money pitch) that breaks in on righties and freezes them. Left-handed bats have generally had more a bit more success against him. Besides his slider, Peavy also predominantly throws a mid to high 90s fastball, a changeup, and a seldom used curveball.

Knowing that Peavy destroys right-handed bats, I would start Dobbs at 3B and Bourn in LF. Hopefully these guys, (especially Dobbs), can catch up to one of the heaters that Peavy throws early in the count. Nunez at 3B might be a consideration because Durbin's ability to induce grounders but that is just giving away 3 ABs. I would also roll the dice at C again and see if Coste can cox another decent outing from Durbin.

As for Durbin, I highly doubt he can duplicate his last outing. Hopefully he is able to induce a fair amount of grounders, gets 4 or 5 strikeouts, and keep the Phils in the game until the 6th.

Basically this game comes down to what Durbin does. I think the Phils will be get to score a few runs (3 or 4) off Peavy but he needs to keep them in the game.

Key matchups:

1. Howard vs. Peavy - should be a lot of fun to watch this one but I see 1 or 2 Ks here.
2. Durbin vs. strike zone (again)

clout: as good as Lofton, probably not. What I was trying to say is that his career might well turn out to be *closer* to Lofton than to Jeff Stone's.

Detroit fans will be happy to know that they won the World Series in '87, by the way...all this time they'd been thinking they lost the ALCS in 5 games to the Twins! That doesn't weaken your point, I realize, but look at what happened to the Tigers after '87. You think they still would have made that deal just because Doyle Alexander gave them a great stretch run, if they knew they were giving up a Hall of Famer and that they wouldn't win again for 20 years? How do Boston fans feel about Larry Andersen? How dis they feel in Montreal about Mark Langston? Etc, etc.

Lofton's a career .300 hitter, an All-Star for many years, and the 13th best base stealer of all time. Maybe Otis Nixon would be a better comparison.

Oh, forgot to give a score. Closer game than most think but the Peavy is just too strong for the Phils and Durbin falters a bit. Pads 5-3.

fightins - I don't disagree with you about Kendrick, by why on earth would a pitching-starved team trade a 22-year old starter who's at least shown the ability to win games in the majors? And how do you know that Mathieson will come back healthy, much less able to throw either of his two pitches for strikes? He's never even been a reliever. You can't just assume that he would 'replace' Madson. There's no way they can trade Madson, even as average as he's been. Average in the Phillies bullpen makes you a commodity.

Tray - ugh, I hated Otis Nixon, but you're right. So, a young, cheap Otis Nixon at the top of the lineup. I'd still take that for any number of seasons.

Fightins - I'd like to agree with RSB, Kendrick would not be on my trade block. I think he could be a solid 4 or 5 starter. Not all starters are overpowering, it's nice to have one in the rotation, just not 3. Moyer had a nice career with less than the best stuff. Mathieson remains an unknown until he proves he's back. Madson, for all his flaws is still a keeper for now.

Have to say I can't see the Phils moving Kendrick, Madson, or Zagurski. I would imagine each of these guys is going to be counted on to round out the '08 pitching staff and beyond.

RSB: My bad. I was thinking Alexander was traded to the 1984 team not the 1987 team, but you get the point. If you have a chance to go to the post-season, you take it. This team squandered its chance last season by pulling the plug too soon. Next season, odds are against them being in this situation again. I say go for it.

Let's look at the Braves two major deals of the offseason: Ramirez for Soriano, then LaRoche for Gonzalez. Beyond the intent to strengthen the bullpen, the common denominator was the Braves' intent to sell high and move pieces that they believe had no upside.

I think Kendrick and Madson can contribute in 2008 as number 5 starter and middle relief man respectively. I just don't believe they have any upside.

Moreover, I want the Phillies to sell high on players who have reached their peak value. Madson is a Scott Boras client and, even though I think we agree he is competent but nothing more, he is about to become very expensive.

fightins - You have an interesting point, particularly about Kendrick who I don't see being more than a end of the rotation innings-eater. If you trade him though at the deadline, who takes his place in the rotation? Same thing with Madson in the bullpen?

To move Madson, I would want to see that both Gordon and Myers were healthy enough to contribute.

To move Kendrick, I would want to see that Happ was healthy enough to go six innings and 100 to 110 pitches.

Despite his abominable start in that Saturday game against the Mets, I still think Happ has somewhat more upside than Kendrick (as a number 4 versus a 5 starter). Happ strikes batters out at a far higher rate than Kendrick.

And as trade bait, Kendrick has some value now while Happ has none.

the real common denominator in those Braves trades is that Atlanta's farm system is full of players who could easily replace the performance of LaRoche (Thorman didn't work, but Saltalamacchia looks like he will) and Ramirez (Carlyle).

Philadelphia has nobody who can be counted on to replace Kendrick or Madson, as MG says.

ae: Since the Phillies greatest need is pitching, I'm assuming a Kendrick-Madson deal would be for pitching, ideally a starter who's an upgrade over Kendrick. If Gordon & Myers come back healthy, I don't think Madson is all that hard to replace by the best of the replacement guys who've been filling in. I either Godon or Myers can't come back healthy, then I agree, his loss wouldn't make much sense.

fightins: Agree with you 100% on Happ. IF he stays healthy his upside is far higher than Kendrick's.

I'm not sure that the braves are better off for making those deals, but the real sell high guy on our roster is Rowand. Perhaps an offensively weak contender like the Padres, Dodgers, or even Cubs would be willing to give up a reliever in return for renting him. It's a long shot though. Another thing I saw over on espn is that Livan Hernandez may be on the market. He'd be an upgrade over what we've got...

Maloney had a nice game for Reading yesterday.

Tray, I agree that Rowand is having a career year. I just question whether he would bring a package in a trade equal to the value of the compensation draft picks.

Clout: I thought of another possible young gun for your cover - Adam Walker. He was eventually traded to the Mets.

I'll say 8-3 Padres.

The right handers look like they may have a tough time today against Peavy. But the lefties look like they can get some hits...

I'm guessing because Peavy has a decent move... I would have liked to have seen Shano steal a base... in that inning. to put some pressure on.

Padres' tv guys just observed that Rowand just tied a major league record with his three putouts in an inning.

About 1200 feet on those 1st 3 outs.

Watching, and saw this headline stream by on the bottom of the monitor: "Ortiz's remains sidelined."

I certainly wish a speedy recovery to his remains.

Looks like we're getting the wide strike zone today.

Starting Burrell today was just dumb. Peavy eats up right-handed batters and Burrell's bat speed is no match for Peavy's fastball.

I'm a longtime reader and I don't post very often, but I wanted to talk about the Helms/Dobbs/Nunez debate from yesterday. I was at Petco last night and watched Helms in the field. He was positively awful. No range whatsoever. He looked about as fast as Burrell. He just won't fit for this team at that position. Last season, he split time between first and third for the Marlins. Girardi could see that Helms is a liability at 3b. Since Howard is a lock to start at first for a long time for this organization, I don't see the use of keeping Helms around. Without consistent playing time, his offense is spotty.

I haven't personally watched Dobbs at third, and I don't know whether his defense is any more of an upgrade. Nunez however, can play third very well, as has been discussed many times. I think we need to start Dobbs at third full time and use Nunez in late innings as a defensive replacement. Cut Helms loose.

As for the rest of the evening, I made sure that everyone in the stadium knew I was a Phillies fan. I was cheering very loudly for Howard's home runs, and I made sure to boo Burrell and Mesa. None of the Padres fans cared enough to boo those two players, so I did it for them. It was good to see all the Phillies fans last night. Surprising turnout of Red and White (and some nostalgic baby blue).

On a side note, Moyer looked pretty strong after some early trouble. He struck out 4 of 6 batters between the fifth and seventh, until that home run by Bradley. Yes 122 pitches is way too many and I thought he should have left after the sixth, but our bullpen sure sucks. So I can't completely fault Cholly.

Nice clean slide by Dobbs to make Greene just and prevent the DP. Plus, Coste hustled out of the box and ran hard down the line. It is a real joy to see guys play hard.

Coste brings a 7-game hitting streak into this game.

Plus, breaking up that DP brought up Durbin. Now Rollins can lead off the 3rd inning. Might not mean anything but it is those intrinsic things that can make the real difference against a really good pitcher.

mg - I figured PtBB must have had decent career ststs against Peavy. Wrong.

Durbin's on pace to go 9, or more if needed.

Encouraging start by Durbin.

Hope he can keep it up.

Hard-hit ball, but a very makeable play which Dobbs should have made -- charitably classified as a hit by the official scorer. Dobbs has made some good plays at third, but he still must be considered to be a defensive liability -- not in comparison to "iron glove" Helms, however.

Wow. Durbin has gotten absolutely rocked so far. It's unreal he's only given up one hit. Let's hope he can settle down.

What you know . . . Rollins is able to lead off the inning with a HR. Dobbs' slide to break up the DP will never show up in the box score tomorrow but I bet it made a difference.

man, these Padres announcers are whiny as sh1t.

Letting Utley score is the right call; if that ball isn't touched, he's going to cross the plate. The home team isn't supposed to be unjustly enriched by fan interference (not supposed to be and playing in the Bronx are two different things).

What means, "DELAYED: OTHER."

It says that across my GameDay screen. What's going on?

Utley's hustle pays off again.

Hard to believe Howard's already up to .280 - great series.

Dodgers up 1-0 after 2.

Should be a run. On a side note: Scott Franske had not grown on me at all this year. He is generic and never brings any insight into the game. Can remember the last time I heard this season where Franske brought up a keen insight. LA gives them on pitching occasionally (his definite broadcasting strong suite) and even Wheeler gives them every now and then.

Seriously, they could replace Franske with Generic Announcer "X" at this point and I would really care less. At least Matthews' candor can be refreshing at times.

Durbin is throwing strikes, which is the key to everything for him.


I completely agree.

Petco is big enough that he can let the Fathers hit the ball and trust the defense to make the outs.

(He'll just have to limit the drives to left field, at least until Bourn gets in the game.)

Durbin pitch count at the end of three IP -- only 32 pitches.

I absolutely cannot listen to the San Diego announcers anymore. Tony Gwynn's all right, but the other two clowns really need to go. How many times are they going to refer to Bud Black as The Lefthander?

Time to hit mute and throw on some tunes.

MG - I agree, but I don't despise Franske... he's kind of like a non-factor. Although I wasn't overly thrilled by Scott Graham, I enjoyed him more than Franske. The broadcasting changes this year are pretty miserable overall. I loved Sarge as a player and found him to be a very friendly man when I met him in person... that being said, hearing him and Wheels all of the time on the tube makes me nauseous.

Also, on the radio today, LA thinking a trapezoid was a muscle was kind of an odd exchange...

What a play by Utley. You can't tell me he's not the MVP so far this year.

Clout: On your "equal value" theory on trades, I don't necessarily agree with it. Of course you would like all trades to give you at least equal value, but in many cases, you're forced to do the best you can do(like w/Thome). And what you have to ask yourself there is, does it make the team better? And in that case it did. Also, is it the best you can get? And with the situation I also think that was a yes.

The Abreu trade is a different case, and you may be right that it was terrible, but I disagree there too. I think they decided they didn't want to pay Abreu 23 mil for the next year and a half, so they did what they could to get rid of him.

These idiot Padre tv guys actually just accused Durbin of "loading up the baseball" with grease from his hair -- and then the camera panned in for a closeup of the back of Durbin's head.

The Padre tv guys do sound like idiots, but considering Durbin hasn't given up any runs, I'd probably be suspicious too!

51 pitches through 4 innings.

Not an expected turn of events, but I'll take.

If Durbin can give them some quality outings down the stretch, the Phils could be in really good shape.

These announcers (minus gwynn) are jackasses... Durbin, is getting it done

Brian G: Sounds like we disagree. Giving good players away for nothing or for 50-cents on the dollar is not the way to build a winner. The Phillies track record using that philsophy speaks for itself. Of course, if your goal is something besides winning, then that philosophy is just fine.

If I knew ahead of time which days Jimmy was going to show up and which he wasn't, I could make a fortune with my bookie.

Jacobin: That's bizarre. Putting grease on the ball gives it more movement and only really good control pitchers can do that. Durbin has a hard enough time throwing strikes with a clean baseball.

Durbin is tearing it up but this Padres lineup is horrendous. There isn't a single hitter you have to be really careful with.

Howard with 2 more RBIs today and really getting the better of Peavy.

Yes! Dodgers up 2-0 on Mets thru 4.

There is a chance this team could be going home only 4 back. More than ever, Gillick needs to get a pitcher to give this team a lift psychologically and show that management is committed to winning. Durbin and Kendrick have done great jobs as fill-ins but they cannot be expected to continue at this level.

Barrett is a jerk.

Black is doing a good job of freezing durbin... get out of here...

Barrett is a jerk but Peavy has been getting squeezed a bit today. Maybe Barrett and Black's ejections will give some life to the a listless Padres team today.

Clout, I don't even think you made a counter-argument... just your usually weak sophistry to insinuate I don't care about winning or something stupid like that. Restating "the Phillies haven't made the playoffs so whatever they did must be wrong" isn't logic.

Anyway, what would you have done with Thome? Kept him so we'd have two all star first basemen who can't play anywhere else?

And like I said, freeing up Abreu's money is a decision that can be debated. Spending that money on Eaton was probably the wrong decision, but using that money on pitching was the right idea. We haven't been hurt by the loss of Abreu's bat this year, and we sure did win a lot more games last season without him there, so maybe the attitude and role change helped Utley and Howard step up.

Maybe we sold at the right time on Abreu, but we could've gotten a lot more for him. I read in ESPN magazine today that C.J. Henry is interested in quitting baseball and playing college basketball at Kansas.

Pat opposite field single. I'm hoping he has a little value. Maybe we can trade him and take some struggling pichers big salary - Contreras? Colon?

Brian G: Did the Phillies win the Wild Card last year? Could they have used Abreu's .900 OPS down the stretch?

And again, I ask you, is trading players for nothing or 50-cents on the dollar a smart way to build a winning team? You probably loved the Padilla trade too, right?

Clout: You're right. My expectation of Durbin living up to his 9.00 ERA caused me to callously and snidely suggest that I wouldn't be surprised if he were cheating today. That being said, you are right that the suggested form of cheating would be highly unlikely to help a control-challenged hurler such as Durbin. Perhaps this is just a freak outing, or maybe he's figuring out how to pitch (which I would attribute to being around pitching coach Jamie Moyer rather than smoking Dubee).

How about Pat to the Angels for Ervin Santana and a minor leagueer like Greg Porter.

Jacobin: I must've misunderstood. I thought you said the Padres announcers were accusing him of loading it up and my response was to that.

didn't I read that Durbin had a great won-loss record in the minors?

We could've used a correct home run call on Utley's shot against the Nationals. And it would've been nice if the Dodgers didn't sweep the final week. But whether we made the wild card or not doesn't decide the argument. Who's to say we would've won it with Abreu? Based on that logic, our record certainly was a lot better without him, and we scored a lot more runs per game without him, so that means it was good to get rid of him.

Sometimes you're forced to get rid of a guy. With Thome I don't think it was 50 cents on the dollar at all, but even if it was they HAD to get rid of him and get the best deal they could get back. If Abreu was so incredibly valuable at that price, then how come no other team would take him basically for free, and why did we have to bribe the Yankees with Lidle so even they woudl do so?

Jacobin: Yea, like they'd take $13 mill Pat in exchange for their enigmatic pitching star. Are you an idiot? Enough of these pipe dreams. No one wants Pat but Pat's left hand. We're stuck with him. Learn to love the Pat.

Santana got sent down but I certainly would would take him but my guess is the Angels would want way more than Burrell

I just fail to see what's so awful about a player with the 25th highest OBP in all of baseball.

Mets have tied it up in LA, 2-2 in the 6th.

As long as Durbin keeps believing he's the real deal, he's got a chance. As long as Kendrick, keeps showing guts, he's got a chance. Can they keep it up, I don't know, but they don't look like deer in the headlights. I like that. There is something about that old saying that confidence breeds confidence.

Then there is the 2nd time around the league....

Hey! I never suggested trading Burrell for anything on here. I think you meant to direct your ire at Joe K (for your own future reference, note that the poster of a comment's name is listed after his post not immediately prior to it).

Try not to be an idiot when accusing other of idiocy.

Brian G: Hmmm, the Phillies got hot after they dumped Abreu, therefore dumping Abreu and his .900 OPS was the reason they got hot. And if they had kept him, they would've won fewer games, not more because they weren't hot when they had him, correct? It had nothing to do with any other factors, right? Not Howard getting hot, not the weak opposition, not Lieber pitching well, right?

And, unless you sat in Gillick's office you have no clue what the market for Abreu was or would've been in the offseason had they kept him.

Rowand has had a brutal day at the dish today.

I'd like to see Durbin get through this inning... because 7 innings this strong was more than anyone could have hoped... but we need to go to the bullpen in the 8th and 9th and shut this thing down.

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EST. 2005

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