Breaking news: Chase Utley out with broken hand

The Phillies have announced that second baseman Chase Utley broke his right hand after being hit by a pitch from Nationals rookie John Lannan. [Link]

Details are still unclear, although Phillies assistant general manager Ruben Amaro Jr. said he expects Utley to return before the end of the season. Which we all know is meaningless coming from Amaro. Utley, who was having an MVP-caliber season and ranked among league leaders in all major offensive categories, can thank Lannan for ending those hopes and sending the Phillies' playoff aspirations into a tailspin. Lannan was ejected for hitting Utley and Howard in consecutive at bats.

Beerleaguer officially wishes the 22-year-old nothing but the best following his memorable debut, and looks forward to future meetings with the left-hander at Citizens Bank Park.

The Inquirer reported Utley's injury as a break to the fourth metatarsal, but they may have meant fourth "metacarpal." Beerleaguer contributor, Clout, offered an insight into the injury:

"The key here is whether it's a clean break or a shatter. If it's a shatter it will require pins and then you're looking at 6 weeks minimum. The 4th metacarpal (below the 4th finger) isn't as bad as if were beneath the index finger, so 3 weeks might be doable if it's a clean break."

Comments

[MG]

From the previous thread:

Do you think Amaro used this infamous line to Gillick today after getting the news on Utley -"That's it man, game over man, game over! What the f@ck are we gonna do now?

[CJ]

Well f$%# it then. No sense dealing anyone of significance.

Does this move Rowand into the 3 hole and Burrell into the 5 hole? Who plays second... and don't tell me Nunez?

[joe]

sell. sell. sell. sell.

[J. Weitzel]

No sense in retaliation, seeing the Nationals field nobody of any importance.

[CJ]

Joe: Who are we selling, exactly?

[clout]

Introducing your new everyday Phillies secondbaseman, Abe Nunez!

Nunez defense at 3B has been consistently overrated by posters here, but he really is pretty good at 2B, which has always been his best position.

[MG]

I would trade Barajas just to clear off his 500k buyout for next season. No brainer.

[CJ]

MG: Trading requires two partners. Who is trading for Barajas?

[CJ]

The "No Chase" Lineup:

SS: Rollins
LF: Victorino
CF: Rowand
1B: Howard
RF: Burrell
3B: Helms
CA: Ruiz
2B: Nunez

Boy does losing Chase take a lot out of us. I guess that's what we get for talking about having two MVP candidates.

[Mike Cunningham]

Boy so glad Manuel started Utley today.

[CJ]

Come on Mike... you bench a guy because he might get injured? That's even dumber than Manuel's moves the last two games.

There's no reason why Utley should have been on the bench today. We have to win every game. Period.

[primodudes]

Wes Helms played a "great" game today. Three runs were directly attributable to that clown today. He is a liability at third to say the least.
If they can trade him, get rid of him. Maybe the Yankees will take him. Same with Barajas.

[J. Weitzel]

Inquirer reported it was Utley's "Fourth Metatarsal" but I think they may have meant "Metacarpal." I'm no doctor, but the Metatarsal appears to be a foot bone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_metacarpal_bone

Utley's right hand is his throwing hand BTW.

[ROB D]

This sure does make it easy for Gillick, Amaro and the rest of the whiny mgmt. If Chase didnt... we would have landed a...(fill in the names of the best available deal in the world). Now we can TRULY "stand Pat".. Actually, I can't stand him at all.

[bay_area_phan]

Mike: I hope and assume that was an attempt to inject some ironic humor into our earlier debate. If it was, it wasn't half bad. Please tell me you aren't being serious . . .

[CJ]

Why would the Yankees trade for a third baseman? I think they have a pretty good guy there... um... what's his name?

[clout]

Jason: The key here is whether it's a clean break or a shatter. If it's a shatter it will require pins and then you're looking at 6 weeks minimum. The 4th metacarpal (below the 4th finger) isn't as bad as if were beneath the index finger, so 3 weeks might be doable if it's a clean break. Unless they get pitching help, it won't matter anyway.

[Mike Cunningham]

Of course, I know that Utley breaking his hand is a random occurence. But is it?? He was hit last night. When you get hit 17 times on the season... eventually you are going to get hurt. 17 out of 100 games!!!!

That meant he had a 17% chance of getting hit today... So it was really just a matter of time.

And I know you never want to ask for retaliation... But the Phillies are second only to the Reds in hitting batters with 47... while as a team they've been hit 56 times. I don't know if it's a matter that our staff is retaliating or just not good. The Reds have a terrible staff save for Harang I guess.

[CJ]

clout: The question, however, if whether you pursue pitching help knowing you won't have Chase for an extended period.

[Mike Cunningham]

@bap... just trying to inject some humor...

[clout]

CJ: You are right and that is a tough question. We may be in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation here.

[CJ]

clout: Frankly, if you can get a cheap bullpen part... do it. Otherwise, I'm not interested in dealing anything for a starting pitcher. Losing Chase is HUGE. If we can stay within striking distance with Kendrick and Durbin until Chase gets back, I'll be amazed. But if the injury goes from 3 weeks to 4... then from 4 to 6... well, any move we make will mean we wasted a prospect.

[ROB D]

This season isn't "over" but if Rowand bats 3rd and Burrell 5th, I see about 50- 60 more walks for Ryan--40 intentional.. This injury eliminates Utley AND Howard.. Burrell is Still not fearsome despite a good month of July.. I think It's time to sell for prospects.. Keep Bourn and just do some salary dumping if you can.. Go Eagles!

[J. Weitzel]

Clout: Excellent insight. I should put it in the header.

Just think, if the Phillies don't make the playoffs now, Gillick and Co. have the perfect excuse.

[CJ]

Rob D: I'll ask again. Who are we selling for prospects and which salaries are we dumping?

[Todd]

How about this:

Victorino
Nunez
Rowand
Howard
Rollins
Pat the Shat
Helms/Dobbs
Ruiz
Pitcher

[MG]

Phillies never say die! Nevermind that was the Goonies.

Sadly, this might be end of a season was that been enjoyable despite the horrid pitching. Real shame because even though this team is fatally flawed, it is an easy team to root for.

I see this team having a tough time staying above .500 let alone keeping pace in the playoff race.

[ROB D]

For prospects (and/or minor league filler)... Rowand,Madson,Barajas, maybe even Dobbs

[ROB D]

Of course, now the Phils will appear desperate at the deadline..not a good thing

[Tom]

Some food for thought: Mark Teixeira is guaranteed to be moved. I understand we don't have much to give up, but if you land him and sign him, there is your third baseman to solidify a fantastic young infield. Nunez can play second until Utley is back, while Teixeira, a lefty, becomes Utley's instant offensive replacement. Only problem is that is a heavy lefthanded line up when Chase comes back.

[Brian G]

The other problem is Teixera plays first base, not third.

[Billy Mac]

I cannot see the Phils being sellers as long as they are in striking distance of a playoff spot by the trade deadline. And the ownership is concerned about filling up the stadium and the message this would send.
Although pitching is a larger need does it make sense for the Phils to acquire a 2b ? It seems there may an inexpensive option out there that is an improvement over Nunez.

[Billy Mac]

With regards to the lineup without Utley, I prefer Howard third with Rowand 4th and Burrell 5th.

[clout]

I looked at Ottawa and Reading and there is nothing there that would even be an improvement over Nunez. It's all career minor leaguers like Joe Thurston or crap failed prospects like Danny Sandoval. Have to hope that Nuni gets hot.

[MG]

If the Phils are buyers at the break now, they are dopes.

[loctastic]

Yep, Eagles season has officially begun.

[gophils88x]

Long time reader,but I thought in this upcoming disaster I might make my first post. The only thing we as fans can hope for is that Utley is out the min, and that he can come back in finish where he started. If anyone can man it out, its Chase, however I dont want him risking his career for this waste of a season. When Ryan was out for those two weeks, the phils kinda held above water, but in my opinion Chase is more important to this offense that Ryan. The phillies can survive without Utley, but it will be very difficult without some help. This is now the true test of PG's worth, can he somehow makes a move to hold us above water untill Chase gets back or is this season completly lost. As a phillies fan, I hope that everything goes right and we somehow make the playoffs even with this happening, yet as a true phillies fan would say, there's always next year ;)

[AWH]

If the past two games didn't convince you that this team wasn't going to make the playoffs unless the pitching, particulary the bullpen, improved - whether Gordon and Myers bolstered it - Durbin, Kendrick and Eaton pitched over their heads - or Seattle Stew actually pulled a trade off, then you are either a cock-eyed optinist or delusional.

I hate to see Chase hurt. Hate it. No more fun watching opposing pitchers wet their pants whenever Chase and Ryan came up with runners on.

But this team wasn't going to make the playoffs before he was hurt. The pitching wasn't good enough. That hasn't changed.

[slackerjoe]

When the Eagles lost McNabb last year, you knew there was no way that they were going to accomplish their goal of winning the Super Bowl.

Unlike football though, in baseball one player can only contribute so much. They will only bat 4 or 5 times a game, and make a similar small number of defensive plays.

Losing Utley deifnitely hurts, but I'm not willing to give up on this season. First off, let's see how long he's going to be out. Secondly, let's see how this team responds to losing arguably its best player. We know how they responded last season when the team traded Abreu and we know they battled through when Howard was out for a stretch.

I'm not giving up yet.

*Unless they lose 2 of 3 to the Pirates; then I'm done.

[gophils88x]

Of course this team wasnt going to make the playoffs even with Utley without some pitching help or if the mets and/or braves completly imploded. However, with all their faults they were fun to watch, and I hope continue being that way with or without Utley.
And yes I am slightly delusional, be it as the last and only time the phils won a championship I wasnt even born yet, they only phillies I have ever known completly sucked or finished 2 games out of the wildcard.

[phanatics brother]

Its been a tough day as a Phightin's Phan.

"no sense in retaliation" ???

Jason my man. come on !!

We have to drill that mo fo in his first appearance against us.

He needs to get whats comin to him in a mean way !!

Only problem with that is we will lose our starting pitcher and the game along with it.

Struggling bullpen.? A struggling Bullpen is a good bullpen having problems.

The only ones struggling now is us listening to these games being handed over to the opponents like Birthday presents.

omfg !
o
m
f
g

I hate this bullpen !!

its been a tough day fellas.

[Tray]

What about trading for Mark Loretta? It's tough to go into sell-mode when Howard and Rowand and Hamels are having such great years.

[slackerjoe]

I wouldn't mind going after Ray Durham on the Giants. Not sure what he would cost though.

Plus, aren't the Mets in the market for a 2B too?

I'm thinking the price is probably too high.

[P O'Neil]

Get Wilson Betimet for 3b, No-hit Nunez to 2b and hope for the best.

[Jon]

Man, what an extremely tough blow...

Anyway chance we could pawn someone like a Marcus Giles off of the Pads for some minor league filler? I know he isn't doing much this year, but maybe we could catch a little lightning for relatively little.

[Tray]

Mark Grudzielanek could also be a possibility. Hitting .303 on the season, .426 this month. He's with KC. No power and doesn't walk much, but he's supposedly a great clubhouse guy and a grinder, for what it's worth.

[Jon]

Loretta is a nice name too. The Phils clearly need something more than No Hit Nuni (who is in classic Nuni form, going 2 for his last 15 - an astounding .133 clip)...

[RSB]

I agree, tray. I don't know if Loretta will be available, but if the Phillies are going to be able trade for anyone, it might have to be a competent infielder. Calling up Sandoval, the original no-talent ass-clown, is simply not an option here.

I don't think losing Utley means the season is done. I think if they lost Hamels, the season would be done. But obviously, it doesn't exactly help the cause. The Phillies were are are totally unprepared for an injury to Utley or Rollins, and fortunately it hadn't ever been an issue until now.

Reminds me of what happened to Jeff Bagwell a few years back...he was having an unbelievable season, on pace to put up earth-shattering numbers, and some pitcher broke his hand late in the season. Far as I'm concerned, that's the real tragedy here because I was looking forward to seeing just how many doubles, hits, and RBI Utley was going to amass this year (as opposed to looking forward to some improbable march to the playoffs).

But there's no need here to be angry at Lannon or the Nationals. It was the guy's first game. It happens.

Stay angry at Charlie Manuel instead. He's the nimrod who neglected to insert Nunez for defense with the lead in the late innings; Helms' error led to the Flores' HR being a 3-runner instead of a 2-runner, and the Phils lost by a run. Even if Manuel can double-talk his way around the bullpen decisions, there simply no way he defend his negligence there. And it is long past time this team recognized that Helms CANNOT PLAY THIRD BASE. He put up good numbers last year, but as a first baseman. Gillick completely erred by thinking he could fill a hole at third. Much like the bullpen, he's managed to be worse than anyone originally feared.

[P O'Neil]

I know the Mets are looking at Grudz too.

[AWH]

Tray and Jon, you're focusing on the wrong thing. Pitching is still the priority.

I'd wager to say that if this team had either the Pads or Dodgers pitching staffs, even without Utley they could win the division.

To paraphrase another slogan:

It's the pitching, stupid!

[Dukes]

I actually thought Sarge had good commentary. He was very upset that the Nats called that guy up to learn how to pitch in the bigs when he should have clearly been in the minors. He said it wasn't fair to the Phillies, "who are going after a pennant," to lose a player like that because the Nats decided to experiment. Some of that is my paraphrase, but I think I got across what he was saying. I'd like to hear what others think of his comments. I like them - they're fightin' words.

[Jon]

Yes it is the pitching, but No Frickin Hit Nunez is just not going to cut it on a daily basis. If you can get a Giles for filler, why not do it, along with getting an arm or two. I am sure he can be had cheaper than a Loretta, although it would be nice to pull off a move to get him.

[P O'Neil]

AWH, when it comes down to it you're probably right, but the loss of his production and clutch hitting will be devastating. I know that was stating the obvious.

[Tray]

AWH, that's true, but we can't go out and acquire a whole pitching staff. All we can do is add a fifth starter, or at best a Jon Garland, and a middle reliever. There simply aren't any good starters on the market. So, with that minimal pitching upgrade, the return of Myers, and the loss of Utley, probably the MVP of the league this year, I'd say we'd still miss the playoffs, assuming the two roughly cancel each other out, so we also need to get a replacement at second base. Now the question would be, do we have enough assets to get both, and I'm not sure that we do, although, maybe if we dealt with Houston, you could get Loretta and Qualls in a package in return for, say, Bourn and one of our pitching prospects. Or you could go to KC and try to get Grudzielanek and Dotel, though from what I read they don't really want to sell off either, because they're under contract for a few years more and they think in a couple years they can contend.

[Dukes]

Do you think Morandini can still play?

[Mike Cunningham]

Gillick the other day said that he's not worried about the lack of production of the "corners" because of the production from 2b.

Well that's gone for now.

It's time to step up to the plate... Improve 3B now...

If you want to make the playoffs... Losing Rowand is not an option... with Utley gone. Unless you were going to get a Miggy Cabrera...

Pat Burrell needs to continue his pace and pick up for his good buddy.... If there was ever a defining moment for Pat Burrell. It's RIGHT NOW.

And the Bullpen situation is as dire as ever... even with Gordon back and Myers coming back in the next couple of days.

Gillick can't wait until July 31. He has to deal RIGHT now.

[RSB]

Mike: what's Gillick going to deal? Leftover bobblehead dolls? Get real, please.

Matthews' comments about Lannon make no sense. What, every team is supposed to leave their pitching prospects in the minors because they risk injuring big league players? That's not even remotely reasonable. Yeah, it's a shame it happened, but there's no sense in getting all frothed up and angry about it, like someone or something just HAS to be blamed.

[Tray]

You know, when he said this isn't the place to learn how to throw strikes, I thought he meant that we're too tough an offense to be learning how to pitch against, but that's probably just me.

[AWH]

"If there was ever a defining moment for Pat Burrell. It's RIGHT NOW."

MC, we don't often agree, but you're absolutely right about that.

They still nedd pitching, though.

[AWH]

"need" pitching

[AWH]

On the Utley front, maybe some good news:

From SI.com

Utley planned to see specialist Dr. Randall Culp on Friday to determine the first step in his recovery.

"As breaks go, it's not that bad of a break," Utley said. "It's definitely disappointing."

Utley, batting .336 with 17 homers and 82 RBIs, didn't think he'd be sidelined for a month.

"I think it will be sooner than that," he said.

[RSB]

Even still, it's a baseless complaint. If he wants to hold it against the Nationals that they were short a pitcher and had to use Lannan, that's great, but it makes no sense at all. What, since it was the Phillies they need to go out and acquire an all-star pitcher to face them instead of go to the minors? They're supposed to know in advance that Lannan was going to hit batters? No matter that Utley leads the league in HBP. No, it must be the Nationals' fault. Thanks for the insight, Sarge. Next time stick to talking about something you know, like barbecuing or batters clearing their hips.

[AWH]

link here:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/07/26/bc.bbn.nationals.phillies.ap/index.html

[RSB]

"I think it will be sooner than that," he said.

...heard *that* one before.

[Mike Cunningham]

Bourn? Madson?

Dobbs? Coste?

Golson? Cardenas?

Carrasco? Savery?

If none of those folks have value than the next 5 years are going to be very long.

[Malcolm]

That's a completely stupid statement.

[JT in NC]

I want to 2nd Billy Mac's suggestion. The only way to get through this is for Howard to carry the team for the next couple of weeks. The Phils should bat him 3rd with Rowand and PtB behind him and hope Howard can come through with the extra ABs.

[Mike Cunningham]

And perhaps the bobbleheads have some value:

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=cole+hamels+bobblehead&category0=

[College Phan]

I know I was like 8 at the time, but back in '93, Dave Hollins recovered from a broken hand in two weeks. yeah we don't have Kim Batiste to fill in anymore, but Nunez hits a lot better when he's playing every day. Call me an optimist, (and I mean a crazy, look on the brightside, maybe it could happen, what if pigs fly, optimist) but Nunez can contribute. If anyone can get back quickly, it's Utley.

I don't think we sacrifice the future and trade Bourn for a shot here because I agree with AWH. Even with Utley, it comes down to pitching. Utley's amazing. Probably the best 2B this team has EVER seen. But still, pitching wins, and pitching loses, and I don't think this team was going to get to October without making some sort of move to strengthen either the starting pitching or bullpen.

So if we trade for anything, lets get a back of the rotation pitcher who can give us quality starts two out of every three appearances. Is there a guy out there like that? Livan Hernandez and Kyle Lohse are close. Call me crazy but I don't think "Real Deal" Durbin and Kendrick are going to provide enough consistency to keep us in contention until Chase returns.

So who do we trade? Keep Bourn, because he's going to be valuable to spell Burrell after 3 at-bats. Who's left? Madson, Carrasco, Costanzo?, Henry?, Ruiz?, even Drabek?. Ok we have nothing to offer. But maybe stand pat isn't as bad as his previous transactions (Clout, I'm not trying to argue with you, Gillick sucks). If we can somehow get a pitcher, any pitcher not named Joe Table, it's still an improvement.

[Jon]

If we can't land Marcus Giles for filler, maybe we could get Jorge Cantu from the D-Rays for filler. Not saying that these are great options, but I'd take either over Nuni everyday.

[The Other Kevin]

Call me crazy, but I'd bat Burrell in the three hole. He's got a .408 OBP -- might as well put those walks to good use setting the table for Howard and Rowand. Plus, I feel a whole lot better about that than asking him to come through in the more frequent RBI situations batting him fourth or fifth would provide him.

[P O'Neil]

This is not the time to panic and trade Cardenas or Carrasco for a guy to Phill in for Utley.

I wouldn't put Bourne in the untradable category.

[RSB]

Having to play Nunez at 2B isn't going to hurt the team as much as the fact that this will render him unable to sub at third base in the late innings. Maybe it's finally time to give Coste a look at 3B.

[harflan]

TOK: I was thinking the same thing.

[Jon]

If you have to go the Nuni route at 2B, there is no harm in at least trying Coste at third for a game or two. I would be willing to bet he doesn't have the same stone block hands as Wes Helms.

[joe l]

The good news is we can't trade for Jose Mesa. The bad news is that we can't trade away Jose Mesa.

[harflan]

Kendrick, Eaton, and Durbin round out the starters. Mesa, Alfonseca, and Zagurski fill out the bullpen. And Nuni fills in for one of the best players in the game. I don't know how to feel.

[Steve Jeltz]

I'd love to see it for even just one game, but I still think we're about 2 injuries away from seeing Coste get a start at 3B.

If they didn't pull the trigger on that last season when Nuni was crapping the bed in a pennant race, I don't see it now when they have both Dobbs and Helms with Utley maybe only being out 3 weeks or so.

The Phils are too stupid to give it a try, but he can't be any worse defensively than Helms.

[Jon]

Like puking?

[harflan]

Hand me a bucket.

[ae]

this has been a pretty ridiculously depressing afternoon. I like hearing Utley's confidence, but I hope he doesn't rush his return. you know he'll want to get back on the field as soon as he can hold a bat, whether he's ready or not.

there actually should be a number of decent options to pick up by trade - better than Nunez at least. of course I'm not talking about someone who would require us to give up quality prospects, but I wouldn't mind us picking up a replacement-level player.

[regalmeans]

Has Coste ever played a position besides catcher for the phillies? Did he ever play 1st base or am I imagining things?

[Steve Jeltz]

I've been to a spring training game where Coste played 1st and I know that wasn't the only ST game they used him there. I think he may have had a game or two there in the regular season, but I know he hasn't played 3rd and I don't think they've used him in the OF either in the regular season.

[Jon]

Coste played a game at fiirst earlier this year. That was his only start when he was first called up. I think he was sent down the next day, after getting 2 hits nonetheless.

[ae]

Coste has played a grand total of 11.3 innings (over 3 games) at first base in the majors.

[Mike]

I wouldn't trade more than a bag of balls for anyone mentioned here to fill in at 2nd. I think they just need to hope that some guys can pick it up and Utley can get back before September. The real tragedy of the situation is not more Nunez at 2nd, it's more Wes "The Butcher" Helms at 3rd. Batting Burrell 3rd is a crazy idea that might possibly work. Uses his on-base and leaves the RBI work to Howard and Rowand, plus he's been hitting much better lately. It'll never happen though. I just hope Manuel's not dumb enough to drop Rollins in the lineup. That idea totally tanked while Howard was out.

[Jon]

Yeah, Coste played 1B on May 24th for the Phils against Florida.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/boxscore;_ylt=AomX48fmEVUPqrmQuV8dEImFCLcF?gid=270524128

And yes he had 2 hits, and didn't play another game for the Phils until June 29th when he took Jorge Sosa yard in the first game of a doubleheader vs. the Muts.

[regalmeans]

Thanks to those who answered me. That's about what I thought. Would be curious to see him start at third - heck I'd be curious to see what he'd do with consistant playing time/more at bats. When you consider our options it certainly isn't an especially dangerous or radical idea... or wouldn't be if Gillick didn't hate him.

FWIW one of the sports reports I saw tonight estimated Utley's DL time as 3 weeks... guess that's the best case scenario at this point!

[bay_area_phan]

Haven't been able to bring myself to post. I was too disgusted by the events of this afternoon.

The Utley injury is really the death knell to their season. I was very skeptical of their chances even before the injury, but at least you could cling to the hope that they might just slug their way into the playoffs. It's not gonna happen now. Even if they somehow manage to stay afloat while Utley is out -- which is highly unlikely -- what will probably happen is that the Phillies will rush him back too soon & he'll struggle mightily. Oh yeah, and our manager's a nincompoop and the bullpen sucks something fierce.

[Jacobin]

I cannot believe I'm saying this, but I think I agree with The Other Kevin. Trying Pat in the third hole might might not be a bad idea. It's not like he's going to clog the bases and keep Howard from stretching any singles into doubles. And with Howard behind him, he's got to see some good pitches (whether he can hit those good pitches is another question...). Trying bat in the three spot might be a decent experiment for the Pirates series. If it doesn't work, it's not as much of a disaster as trying it against a major league roster.

[harflan]

I'm thinking we carry 13 pitchers. Nobody signed Roberto Hernandez, did they?

Coste was part of the reason for the 2nd half run last year. They went out and signed Barajas because they were satisfied with his job. There is no way he sniffs 3rd base. That would mean the Helms and Barajas signings were garbage. So, Coste is now playing 3rd but couldn't fit on the bench for the 1st quarter of the season. Sir Alden, I mean Gillick, wouldn't allow it.

[Frank]

I say trade a prospect or two to tampa for Wiggington. Play him at second til' Utley comes back and then move wiggington to third. Trade nunez for cash or designate him. Can use helms off the bench and probably find dobbs some more at bats, in the process. That might help keep us in it for awhile and then we have an upgrade at third down the stretch when (if) utley comes back. just a thought.

[RSB]

harflan: the Dodgers got R. Hernandez. Oh well. I think Matt Whiteside is still out there.

[Kent]

Wiggington would be a great addition and, frankly, a better play at 3B when Utley comes back. If the price is right, sure. The only concern there is the Yankees potential interest and the question of who would pay more for him. Right now, he's probably cheap enough. With that franchise being so starved for pitching, mid-level arms might get it done.

[harflan]

RSB: I wish I could throw 84.

[J. Weitzel]

The Phillies didn't have enough pitching to get to the post-season back in the glory days of nine hours ago when they had an MVP performer at second and were blowing 5-2 leads to the Nationals.

As bad as Nunez is, the smarter call is to go with Nuni, keep the Helms/Dobbs platoon at third, see some more Coste behind the plate for the added offense, and keep or use their scarce prospects for pitching help if they can. There's no way they should give up a pitching prospect for a second-rate infielder who might become obsolete in four weeks. If it costs only organizational filler, go for it. If not, no thanks.

Look on the bright side. If they call up Thurston, a left-handed hitter, a Thurston/Nunez platoon might even squeeze out a .680 OPS.

Anyone?

Bueller?

[Dave X]

From the reports I've read, the Giants are in full-scale sell mode for their vets, aside from Barry. Durham could probably be had fairly easily if we pay the salary. Which makes that deal unlikely.

Loretta is being sought by clubs with more than we have. I'm not sure about the other oopen 2Bs. The good news is that 2B is generally considered a more challenging position than 3B, so any 2B acquired could likely be shifted over. The offensive bar is higher for 3rd, though.

Utley's bat will be missed, but the Phils will still have an above-average offense without it. They WERE 1st in the league in scoring runs, after all, although Utley is one of the strongest hitters in the league, we'll still be strong with Jimmy, Vic, Howard, Burrell, Rowand, and the occasional contributions from others.

One of the bigger effects - although I'm sure some of the amateur scouts we have here on the board will disagree - is the defense. Although when he was coming up he was generally regarded as a borderline OK 2B, now stats and scouts agree that he has improved greatly and is a good (or, some will say, among the best) defenders at 2B in the league right now. Some people managed to retroactively look at every hit in 2006, and as can be seen in the link below, Utley has no real holes in his defensive game, range wise.

http://www.baseballmusings.com/cgi-bin/DisplayCharts.py?PlayerID=1679&fpos=4&year=2006

Look though our pitching roster and you'll see very few strikeout pitchers. Hamels, Madson, Gordon, and Myers. Other than that, you have some guys who can strike out at a moderate rate, and some who can't at all (Moyer, Kendrick, and all of our bullpen besides the 3 mention above).

[kells]

Frank:I agree Willington would be a great addition. Gillick needs to finally justify his salary & horrid tenure w/ a pickup at the deadline. Find a way to make a small deal to help this club. Each year GM's make it happen.
The thought of Nunez every night is disturbing.
I would actually take a Flyer on M Giles if desperate.
Utley is my favorite player in the leauge but along w/ rollins they both hover over the plate-so I'm not suprised this eventually happened.
I would hit Howard 3rd in the lineup-Burrel needs to stay hot until Chase comes back.
Mets/Brewers/Padres/Cubs/Atlanta all lost today. Opportunity lost.
Thanks again Charlie for being The Village Idiot the past 2 night. As always FU Gillick!

[Kent]

It strictly depends on what your giving up. All pitching prospects are not equal for starters. I was suggesting something closer to filler than Carrasco, or even Happ for that matter. The only place the Phillies could even pretend to have a prospects to deal is on the mound. Do you really think Zach Segovia's the future, for instance? Who knows if that would even get it done. They certainly need to maintain their real chips for pitching help, know one would argue that; however, all reports indicate the chips in potential pitching deals revolve around outfielders, at the moment. So, it's at least worth exploring Wiggington as an option for the right price. He's hitting .277 with 15 homers, 48 RBI and 45 runs. Plus, part of the Wiggington appeal is versatility. He can play three infield positions. He wouldn't become obsolete.

All that said, I'm not sure we completely disagree... simply a question of what's being given up.

[harflan]

Howard, Utley and Rollins missed a combined 9 games last year. We didn't make the playoffs. That's almost impossible to duplicate. Not a sabermatician but that number is 9 and we didn't make the playoffs.