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Monday, June 11, 2007


did they announce whose place kendrick will take? well, i guess they won't till wednesday....

I imagine it will be Condrey's place.

Maybe we should all be glad we're not Reds fans. Then again, maybe Phils ownership thinks their doing a good job when they compare themselves to the Reds.

This, from the Chicago Tribune blog site:

"Here's a not-so-flattering factoid about the Cubs' scouting and player development system: Corey Patterson is the only player listed on the All-Star ballot who started his pro career with the Cubs. There were 15 players who originally signed or were drafted by Toronto and 14 by Atlanta. … If you don't think success in the draft is important for an organization, consider this comparison. In the last 10 years, Cincinnati got only six of 60 players it picked in the first five rounds of the draft to the big leagues, the lowest total in the majors. Detroit, meanwhile, advanced the most players, 23 of 58 players."

Link here:,1,2958739,print.column?coll=cs-home-headlines

Anyone know where the Phils rank. I suspect somewhere in the middle.

But according to the Hagen article, the Puppet says we can all have a "different baseball experience" if we just patronize the Bank.

He's our 15th best prospect? What about the first 14? Any pitchers among those guys?

I am very curious to see how Eaton pitches tonight at CBP. Honestly I have really don't have any good gut feelings on it. Have to hope that Chicago's weak lineup cancels out Eaton's horrible home numbers this year. It will be interesting.

It's Condrey or Mesa for me. I've seen just about all I need to see from Mesa.

Chris, they rate the prospects by what they think they'll eventually do at the MLB level. There are pitchers rated higher than him, but some are at lower levels in the minors. Kyle Drabek is one example -single A Lakewood.

AWH, Of the Phillies picks in Rounds 1-5, between the years 1997 and 2006, I counted 14 guys that have gotten to the big leagues. Of these 14 players, 4 have had nothing more than a cup of coffee (Zach Segovia, Gavin Floyd, Joe Saunders, & Michael Bourn). A fifth, Eric Valent, had 270 ABs for the Mets in 2004 but has otherwise never had more than 43 ABs in a season. That leaves only 9 guys that I would call real major leaguers: Hamels, Howard, Utley, Myers, Burrell, Michaels, Drew, Wolf & Turnbow. Since neither Drew nor Turnbow ever played a game for the Phillies, that makes 7 useful selections from the first 5 rounds of the last 10 drafts.

My guess is that if each major league team picked their top 7 players from the first five rounds of the last 10 drafts, our list would look pretty good. However, I also suspect that most teams would be able to point to a lot more than 7 useful draft choices from the first 5 rounds of the last 10 drafts.



I think tonight's lineup (minus Barajas) is about the best they can put out there and wih Rowand finally established in the 5 hole everyone is in the right slot in the order.

Note: this is the 64th game of the season and I'm pretty sure the 1st time Cholly has put out this exact lineup. So he's really on top of things.

Nice job by Pat going out for that one. And as I write that, Eaton almost puts one over.

Now THAT would have been nice...

Wow. Nice one, big fella.

so, will eaton bat here and then be removed after facing 2 batters next inning? not that he shouldn't bat considering how we probably would have a mesa-zagurski-alfonseca BP tonight......

I won't object to the long balls, but it would be nice to have at least one with someone on base!

It was a close call on whether to let him hit. He does have a shutout going but he showed signs of losing it last inning, with all the wildness. It always seems to take Cholly about 5 ABs longer than everyone else to recognize the warnings signs that a pitcher is losing it.

Say it with me, fellas - "No Mesa! No Mesa! No Mesa!!!"

considering our bench ph options, eaton hitting for himself is not wating an at bat.

It's not so much that I thought Cholly should have pinch hit for Eaton (I didn't). It's that Eaton was really starting to show signs of losing it last inning. He should be on a short rope.

Thanks for stopping by, Wes.

thanks wes helms!

gotta tell ya, i'd rather eaton have gone there, and have zagurski and geary up.

that's how bad or bench is.

I'd rather — as bad as he's been lately — see Nunez in that position instead of Helms. Then you can bring Nunez in at 3B and the pitcher hits at Dobbs' spot.

But of course, that would never happen. Not with this team.

Just for sh*ts and giggles, I almost hope we see Mesa here.

Nunez? Helms? Why wouldn't you use Coste to pinch hit in that situation? Oh, wait a minute . . .

Got a conference in the city tomorrow. Where can I get a good cheesesteak near Rittenhouse.

Greg S. in Lanc

P.S. Going to the game after the conference.

Well, this is one way to win (Six Fingers willing) without leaving men on base. I just saw somewhere about a 2-0 American League game where the winning team had two solo HRs and no other hits or walks, meaning they won without a single baserunner all night.

We've almost done that here.

Good cheesesteak near Rittenhouse? Uhh...not even sure. Closest really good steak place is Jim's on South St., but that isn't exactly around the corner...

And can someone please enlighten me as to this "happy day" crap ESPN throws around whenever the Phils win?

Everytime I think I'm out ...

They don't call him Alfon-sava for nothing!

according to radio, sounds like freddy is going to the land of rotator cuff surgery.

if you're going to a tourist trap, at least hit pat's or geno's.

why the happy day crap? 7-3 in 10 games is a good stretch. even if one was a laugher.

and, i'm liking me some zagurski!

Thanks Confirmed my suspicion about no cheesesteaks near Rittenhouse. I'll just get some sushi.
Can't stand Pats and Genos. Used to like Ishkabibbles on South. Is that still there?

Yay, Phils win. Let's make it two in a row. I'll be in section 109 cheering 'em on.

Nothing puts a smile on my face like an Alfonseca save.

Just your typical effortless 3-0 victory where three pitchers are solid the whole way through. Could it be the White Sox offense stinks? Nah.

Very nice win nevertheless. Shutout ball from Eaton is in everyone's best interest. And Howard is back and was probably back days ago.

Funny you should say that, Will. Alfonseca is about as popular on this board as a Muslim at a Republican Round Table.

Well, South St. has Jim's, as I said, which is touristy as well, but has better steaks than the two traps.

And I didn't mean why the happy day crap today; one of the ESPN anchors (I think it's either Scott Van Pelt or Neil Everett) says "Oh, happy day!" after a Phils win during a highlight. It's every time they win too. Like we're shtick.

Great outing from Eaton tonight. Easily his best start of the year.

I really have no idea what to expect from him when he goes out on to the mound. It wouldn't surprise me if he goes 6 or 7 innings and shuts the other team down or gets lite up and doesn't even make it to the 4th.

A better hitting team would have made him pay for those baserunners he put on in a few innings. Still, we'll take what we can get.

There's a Tony Luke's not far from Rittenhouse, somewhere in the 20's around Chestnut, Samson, etc.

wow first win when we score 3 runs or less. 1-18 in that situation. Speaks volumes about our pitching especially pen blowing leads. Slow posting nite I guess everyone was too busy checking out Erin Andrews on ESPN. If the only purpose she serves on a broadcast is to provide guys with him hot piece of ass to look at then someone please tell me why they had her up in the upper deck some 400 ft away from the camera one of the times i saw her on tv. I'd much rather have her right behind the plate rather than dumbass kid on a cell phone waving to his friends.

Speaking of c0*k teases i forgot to mention the effort of Eaton tonite. Typical cause the guy is about as unpredicable as the rest of the team as a whole. Up & down, up & down. But he did show some glimpse of why he was a #1 pick and why the Padres considered him a potential top of the rotation guy with a higher ceiling than Peavy for a few yrs

For all the heat Manuel gets I think for once he wasn't the dumbest manager on the field tonight. His stupidity must have rubbed off on Guillen before the game cause I can't believe he went with an almost entirely right handed hitting lineup and couldn't find one spot in the late innings, especially the 9th, to pinch hit Thome for someone. If Manuel did that he would've been murdered here by us.

For all the heat Manuel gets I think for once he wasn't the dumbest manager on the field tonight. His stupidity must have rubbed off on Guillen before the game cause I can't believe he went with an almost entirely right handed hitting lineup and couldn't find one spot in the late innings, especially the 9th, to pinch hit Thome for someone. If Manuel did that he would've been murdered here by us.

I want to see if i can single handedly get this thread to 100 posts tonite. I'll watch General Hospital on SoapNet and give you play by play for the next hour if nobody else starts posting.

"Funny you should say that, Will. Alfonseca is about as popular on this board as a Muslim at a Republican Round Table."

Heh, true -- but who was the last Phillies reliever to start 5 for 5 in save opportunities?...Probably Wagner, but I'm not even sure if he didn't blow one early on.

Oddly enough, the thing that's impressed me about him (Alfonseca) is that he always lets one guy on base, but doesn't get freaked out the way that Madson or Geary usually do with a baserunner.

Alfonseca's opposing OBA this year is .287. Still not sold on him. He may be stranding runners now, but that stuff evens out over time.

Agreed, Tray, I hold my breath until the last out, no matter how good Doc Ock might look on any given batter. But it does illustrate how overrated the Magic Closer Dust is. This is why I'd prefer Myers to come back to the rotation. I'd rather have him give us 20 good starts (or even 15) than 25 saves, because many of those saves would be like tonight's -- games that someone else could nail down just as easily. Then move him to the pen for the playoffs, should we reach them.

Chris, Pblunts is right, there was a Tony Luke's near Rittenhouse, but I think it closed.

Check out

It's kept by a guy who likes greasy spoons. He has a whole section on Philly - rates the various Cheesesteak joints. Skip Sonny's on E Market. He gave it a good writeup, but I thought it was lacking. There is a place called Campo's on East Market that he seems to think is excellent, though I haven't tried it myself.

My personal favorite is Dalessandro's in Roxborough. If you have the time it's worth the 15 minute ride from Center City.

And can someone please explain Wes Helms?

Some how? Some way? Please?

well, while its envitable that at some point alfonseca is going to lose some games for us, as it stands, theres no one better to take his place.

This bullpens only mantra can be "Go with the hot hand" and right now, his hand is as hot as anyones.

we have to beat slumping teams to even be able to pretend to be a contender...this division is more winnable than people give it credit to be. The mets have proving that they can be inconsistent as well...and we can get their number.

Its not over yet, in july sure, but not yet.

What we need is some consistency. Next year, I want to see more players who will be here for more than one year. Right now were playing with 9-10 guys, who might not be back next season. I'd argue, thats too high of a number.

Maybe I'm wrong but..that has to effect us somehow.

Gooey Louie's on 4th is the best bang for your buck in my opinion.

not as bad as the one commentator during the game hoping for victorino to make an error and joking about it.

It would only be great if this team could actually come back and go to the series, it would be great to watch all those jerk sportswriters eat their words.


I dont think the Phillies have blown a save situation and lost a game since Myers went down.....Madson / Alfonseca blew the one on the Sunday game against the Giants but Victorino won it in the bottom of 9. Alfonseca has done better than almost anyone would have thought in that role. Hell, he saved all 3 against the Mets. Wouldnt have bet on that.

And agreed, that at bat by Helms was definetly one of the worst three ABs this season by a Phil....say what you will about Charlie but at least he has him nailed to the bench for the most part anymore.

I second Delassandro's in Rox. Good pickup.

So should I drive from Conn. to Philly for tonight's game? My fam has tickets, and I was slated to go for a Father's Day-type thing for my dad. Will they play with the rain predicted? Anyone? What should I do?

One definitive positive is that Ryan Howard is back to his MVP-type form. Since returning from the DL on May 25th, here are Howard's numbers coming into tonight's game:

16 G, 54 AB, 9 R, 16 H, .296 AVG, 6 HR, 17 RBI, 11 BB, 17 K

Not only is Howard hitting with power but he is getting on base a ton. Just need to some of guys lower in the lineup (Helms, Burrell, Ruiz) to pick it up.

This post from Scott Lauber here:

Looks like Garcia has labrum AND rotator cuff damage. I'm no doctor, but I find it hard to believe that all that occured THIS season, especially since the diminished velocity began LAST season.

No lessons learned from the Majewski/Kearns trade?

No MRI before the trade?

Someone once said:

Smart people learn from their own mistakes.

Geniuses learn from other people's mistakes.

Stupid people never learn.

To which group do Phils ownership/mgmt belong, in light of the fact that they're still trying to justify their actions?

I agree Alby, I'd like to see Myers rejoin the rotation, Alfonseca's been good enough and if we need to move him back to the 8th, make a deal. You can't really expect much from Kendrick.

Helms should just be released if he's not going to hit any better than Nunez. It just doesn't make sense for that guy to be taking a spot on the bench from Coste.

timr, this team won't "man up" and eat the money from 2-year deal they gave him. They'll continues to hope he turns it around, even if he stinks the joint up through 2008.

Contrast that with the Tigers releasing Mesa and swallowing his money.

On another note:

"Charlotte Knights pitcher Gavin Floyd has been named International League Pitcher of the Week for June 4-10. Floyd is the second Knight to be recognized by the league this season. Teammate Josh Fields, currently with Chicago, was named Batter of the Week for May 21-27.
In his last two starts, Floyd is 1-0 with a 1.20 ERA in 15 innings pitched. He allowed 12 hits, allowed only two earned runs and struck out 14. The award follows Floyd's victory against Louisville on Sunday, when he pitched seven innings, striking out eight Louisville batters. For the season, Floyd is 4-3 with a 3.58 ERA and 57 strikeouts."

link here:

My friend just sent me a link to Josa Mesa's player profile on Funniest thing is Mesa's DOB is listed as 05/22/66 but his first child, daughter Yamely, was born on 1/15/74.

Either Mesa started really early or he is probably pushing 50. I wonder if the Phils are going to see if Ricky Bottalico or Turk Wendell are available.

I hate to say it guys, but I think the reason the Philles are winning just happens to be myself. Seems that every game I don't watch or XM listen to we win, and it goes vice versa for the rest.

It was great knowing you guys and throwing in my .02, no matter how sarcastic they were over the past year or so.

Like Steve Bartmann, I will do my best to lurk in the shadows from my one true love.

With Kyle Kendrick coming to the Phillies to start tonight, this would be a good time to clear a roster spot on the 25-man for Chris Coste -- getting rid of dead wood Helms and/or Barajas.

After Coste caught Kendrick's complete game gem in his last start in Reading, Kendrick had this to say about Coste, who has thrown out 60 % of runners attempting to steal:

"It's nice to get a CG," Kendrick said, "but better to get a win, to tell you the truth. (Chris) Coste called a great game behind the plate, my fastball command was pretty good I think it was down most of the time. My slider in the later innings was good, also my changeup in the later innings helped me out too. All around I felt pretty good."



*Eaton didn't pitch great, but giving up ZERO runs is good any way you dice it.

*A few weeks ago I said "Wes Helms sucks" and I got blasted. Just like I was correct in my assessment of No-Hit Nunez, and was also right in this case too.

*Alfonseca needs to be given more credit, as he's be decent besides a 2 week rough patch.

*Hamels vs. worst offense in the's time for that no hitter!

*Kendrick should take the place of Condrey (he's blown his chances).

*No way Jose! Mesa should be cut for Coste.

*Hamels vs. worst offense in the's time for that no hitter!

Calm down, Carson. Let's not do a 'JRoll' here and jinx the guy. The Chisox, despite their offensive woes, have a dangerous lineup. If they all start hitting at the same time...

Funny typo on "Pat Burrell hit career home run No. 196 in the second inning, passing Booby Abreu for seventh place on the Phillies' all-time list." Yeah, that Abreu sure was a boob!

The site is also saying Chooch Ruiz is banged up with a swollen left wrist, hence the Barajas starts.

What does 10 mil get you now a days? 1 win...because it looks like Garcia will probably need surgery.

Helms' at bat in the seventh with one out and men on the corners ranks as one of the worst of the season by any player. Coste would have provided an AB that was 10 times better.

Jason - agreed. It was pathetic. The pitcher was having trouble finding the zone, and he gets a horrible swing a a first pitch ball one. Ugh!

Helms is hard to figure. Last year, esp. late last year, he was Mr. Line Drive (although his other tools have always been subpar). I guess it is more evidence that these guys can really step it up for the salary drive. That should mean more good things from Rowand and Lieber.

Malcolm: I'd make the drive from Conn. The rain looks spotty and not too heavy, the kind of thing they play through and wait out during the heavy spots.

Dalessandro's is indeed great, but that's a lot of schlepping around, from Center City to Roxborough to CBP. He's better off just going to the original Tony Luke's.

I think Myers is staying in the pen for the time being. I think they'll experiment with guys like Kendrick/Segovia/Happ/maybe even Rosario at least until the All Star break.

If none of those guys shows any promise, they can come out of the break with a rotation of Hamels/Lieber/Moyer/Eaton/ Myers. Making him the 5th guy would give him nearly 10 days to rest and prepare for to start again.

Garcia was looked at by a Phillie doctor. His name is Dr Nick (Hello everybody).

As for Alfonseca, the typical Phillie fan will boo him after his first blown save even if he's saved 25 in a row.

davthom: I like the Coste idea. The kid could throw to a catcher he's comfortable with. Put Ruiz on the 15-day DL, backdated, and cut Mesa. Let the record show that the first 2 posters to call for Kendrick to get this start (way before his name was even mentioned by Phillies management) were Jason and I. Now let's see how smart or dumb we are.

alby: With Garcia out for the year, I'm also inclined to put Myers back into the rotation but I disagree with you that just about anyone can setup and close. I think the bullpen will be total disaster and cost the team the playoffs if they don't have Myers & Gordon back there and fail to make a move. Geary and Madson flat out don't have the talent to pitch those crucial situations on a regular basis.

If they decide to keep Myers in the pen, that's good for the pen, but then they have to hope they catch lightning in a bottle with Kendrick or Rosario or some other organization guy. Odds are stacked against that. Either scenario they have to make a trade.

What's even more surprising than the lack of MRI for Garcia before the trade is the lack of MRI *after* the damn trade, when he went on the DL with "shoulder soreness." It's almost like they didn't want to risk uncovering anything serious. Am I mistaken that the MRI he just had was the first one since he came to Philadelphia? Even after all of the warning signs this spring?

I'm guessing they must have contract insurance on Garcia to cover the bulk of the $10 million; otherwise, there's no way you take a risk like that. It just makes no sense.

Great point, laramie

Re: Joe Table, I tentatively allowed myself to believe that he might be able to step up and give us a good half-season, a sort of homecoming that would lead to a graceful exit from baseball instead of this embarrassing drawn-out flame-out we're watching now. As bad as he was at times, he was also, well, not quite so bad at other times. I found it hard not to secretly root for him despite having directed more than my fair share of boos his way.

Plus I figured that Detroit owed us one after we basically gave them Chris Webber, paying him tens of millions of dollars just to free him to go sign with the Pistons for peanuts and almost get to the NBA finals. If only Mesa could have been some small recompense... but he's not. He's done and he should really bow out before it gets any worse.

Good riddance to Webber.

Clout: Agreed we need a trade either way, but I don't think we can afford to get rid of Rowand. My point was that as a starter Myers will have a big role in 15-20 games; as a closer it will be fewer. Of course he could easily save 20 games, but three-run leads to start the ninth don't qualify as impact saves to me. Alfonseca has shown that others can do it; you're right in that neither Geary nor Madson can.

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