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Friday, June 08, 2007


"If you believe that previous statement makes this some kind of automatic for the Phils, you’re a complete stranger to Phillies baseball."


I can see the Phils moving Joe Savery to closer so we can look forward to corny headlines like "Savery saves the day". But if he's good, then I'm down.

Draft has been decent so far. No Golson's or Moss's...and that's a good thing.

This KC series is so huge. Any thing short of a sweep would be a letdown to me.

Hopefully Burrell dh's tonight, with Bourn in LF.

Pat should always DH in AL stadiums, the AL is really our only hope to move him before his contract is up.

Whoa, Carson, I like the passion, but another sweep? Let's focus on winning the series, and if a sweep comes it'll be an added bonus. While I also want a sweep, I want to win this series and then the next two with DET and CLE. Let's not set our expectations too high- I don't want to be emotionally drained (like I was after the Giants series) by only taking two.

But maybe that's my pessimism coming out.

Clout- I'm sorry I was out all day today. I come back to read BeerLeaguer's thread from last game and see the same garbage about Nunez being an every day MLB player.

Let me make this simple: Abe Nunez plays fine defense, especially at 3rd. His bat however is horrible. Sure he's batting about .265-.270, but it's empty. Empty means little walks, and absolutely NO power. His career year, which netted him this 2 year contract was in '05 with the Cards and it was an empty .285. Am I glad he's batting for an average above .250 for a change? HELLS YES! But don't be fooled, and certainly don't think he's worthy of starting. The only reason he's starting is because Helms is a butcher at 3rd with the mitt and his arm sucks, and his hitting has fallen off so drastically that Manuel can't stick him in at 3rd justifiably. Dobbs is a good bench player, that's it. Coste may actually be a short-term solution at 3rd, but nobody in the Phils organization is going to give him a chance. By season's end the real No-Hit Nunez will be on the tip of your tongue and being cursed!

percival to the cardinals, ;-(

Carson, we certainly know by now how you feel about Nunez, but he does have a positive VORP at the moment -- not by much, but it's better than Helms, who's in negative territory.

The unfortunate thing about Nunez is that his name isn't Rollins, Utley nor Howard. He is a pretty good fill in guy. He may never do what he did with Stl., but perhaps he can approach it. It's not like he blew it up with the Cardinals anyway. I do like some of the plays he's made at the hot corner and if Howard ever really gets moving, his batting average will be an after thought.

He reminds me of a less expensive Ivan Dejesus....though, less quixotic also.

Oy vey! Are we still on Nunez? I can barely take it anymore.

I'll try to make a deal with all you Nunez fans. If you don't promote him, we naysayers won't rip him, unless his average falls below .250. Then it's open season.

He's a good defensive player, and, yes, he's the Phils best option at third right now. Yes, he has gotten some key hits recently.

But we are not Nuni Haters. We just recognize the simple fact that he's NOT an everyday player at the MLB level.

There is a reason he was not a full-time player on the Pirates teams, teams, BTW, that have not had a winning season since 1992!

Please, please understand, we want to see him do well. We want to have him play better than he did during his career year with the Redbirds! It will only help the Phils if he does. BUT, he is what he is, and you need to recognize that. He would not be a regular player on any other MLB team. He wouldn't. Period.

Facts: Nunez has the worst OPS of any starting thirdbaseman in baseball except for the Royals Alex Gordon (a rushed prospect who's hitting .190 and really should be in AAA) and the worst on the Phillies for every player except Helms. His defense is NOT above average. It is league average. There are any number of backups scattered around the big leagues who are better than Nunez and, I have no doubt, a handful of AAA veterans who would be better as well.

It's also a fact, Clout, that practically every team regularly starts a player with a poor OPS at *some* position. The Yankees have a light-hitting first baseman, the Red Sox have a light-hitting shortstop, the Braves have several holes in their lineup, the Dodgers have a brutal centerfielder, and so on. Now, in our case our worst hitter plays at a position where traditionally you're supposed to get some power, but obviously we more than make up for it at other positions or we wouldn't score so many runs.

I am a member of Anti-Nunez club and have been since last year. Nunez is a stiff who is being vastly overpaid by the Phils this year.

That said, you have to go with Nunez at this point over Helms. At least Nunez is above average defensively at 3B.

Helms is easily one of the bigger disappointments on this team after Garcia & Eaton. Even if Helms was hitting near his career average numbers (.266 AVG, .328 OBP, .435 SLG), he would warrant alot more playing time.

The biggest disappointment though is that he is not hitting LHP. Here is Helms splits about LHP in 2007:

48 AB, .250 AVG, 0 HR, 2 RBI (.345 OBP, .315 SLG, .658 OPS)

Compare this to his splits from 2004-06 against LHP:

262 AB, .317 AVG, 7 HR, 43 RBI (.397 OBP, .489 SLG, .886 OPS)

Ideally, Helms would be still hitting well against LHP and you could have a platoon of Nunez/Helms. Helms and Burrell's struggles against LHP go a long way to explaining the Phils abysmal record against LHP starters this year.

Theres been a few of ya who said if Nunez plays everday he will hit. Well didn't Nunez play everyday last year and he didn't hit.
Actually he hits lots of balls on ground - if hes lucky he gets a hit through the infield, thats most of his hits this year but eventually its catching up and its not going thru and lots of double plays hes hit in.

I have a feeling the disdain for Golson is going to prove overstated. His walk rate is considerably up this year, he's got some power, he's a high-percentage base stealer, a plus defender, and at age 21 he's still not close to what he could be.

Yeah, it's more likely than not that he'll go into the Phillies history as The Guy We Picked Instead of Phil Hughes. But it's not a lock by any stretch, and the organization's track record with first round picks entitles them to the benefit of the doubt, IMO.

I'm willing to give him a chance, but is he Bourne Jr. or does he have more of a power game?

the kc announcers, courtesy of mlbtv, keep referring to dobbs and glenn dobbs.

Garcia can't get through an inning without either the other team threatening or giving up some runs.

Garcia is the worst pitcher ever

Garcia's not going to cut it. This is just another embarassing performance. Working with the lead, he's already given the Royals more hits & runs than they generally manage in a whole game.

Great, Freddy. Way to squander a 3-0 lead. The end of the season and his ass of the roster cannot come soon enough.

How long will Cholly keep Garcia in? relievers can't be any worse

But ya know since we're paying him, they'll run him out there every 5 days until Oct.

are we going to see lil freddy's big bad temper tantrum tonight after he gets yanked early for the clay condrey super fun happy hour?

He's unwatchable, even on gamecast.

Fortunately, if there is a worse pitcher in baseball, he's probably pitching for KC right now.

Is there anyway to cut bait with Garcia? He always pitches on the edge, like a time bomb just waiting to explode. Two months into the season, a pitcher shouldn't look as fatigued as he does after 30 pitches. Huge bust.

another one of Gillicks great moves

Ten million dollars at the end of the year after we get rid of this bum

Thanks again freddy and pat

Freakin' awesome...why are we wasting our Friday night's watching this garbage?

where's clay condrey?

The 2nd most irritating thing is it takes him 30 minutes to throw his 30 pitches per inning.

GET HIM OUT. Garcia must be benched this moment.. get it through his sweaty head that team can't afford him to battle through this crap.

News Flash: Garcia, you still suck!!

Charlie, get Garcia the heck out of there!!

Gillick should file a grievance with the league. There is something physically wrong with him.

Bad analogy, Inky. With a time bomb, you might have to wait a few hours before the destruction hits. With Garcia, it only takes a matter of minutes.

could be a good night to let nunez pitch an inning

Pitchers do not bat - tell cholly he doesn't have to double switch.


By the end of this inning all the Royals may be .300 hitters.

Wow. This guy was one of our big off-season acquisitions? He's awful.

How the hell did this guy win 17 games in the AL?! I really believe he does not want to wear the red stripes.

Kind of remind you of the days after the Braves sweep?

Y'all need to be a bit less negative...agreed Garcia has sucked. Let's focus on winning this game. It is early.

This should be it for Freddy Garcia as a Phillies starter, but the problem is they have nothing to replace him with in the rotation.

Never liked Garcia's attitude on the mound all season but tonite took the cake. He looked totally disinterested. I especially liked when he got pissed off and starred into the dugout after throwing the pitchout. Sorry Gillick but you have to cut your losses with this terrible trade and do something with Garcia. There is no way he is going to make it through the season with us.

this is one of those moments where I bang my head against a wall thinking we could have Germano in here.....even if it were as a long man instead of Clay "Garcia-lite" Condrey.

The Phillies signed Mesa. Maybe he can start?

It isn't a mystery why we can't ever win 2 series in a row.

All in favor of leaving Garcia in KC? Hell, we'll take a case of warm beer for the guy.

Are you serious dmac? If so, more BOOOOOOOOO...

i missed it, did freddy throw a hissy fit when he got the hook?

sad thing about garcia is that the phillies will more than likely have to keep sending him out there every five days...if, and i mean if he's tradeable, he has to have a string of good starts to make him look somewhat appealing to a team that absolutely needs a starter...what could the phillies trade him for now...

Let it be noted that Freddie intimidated Cholly into leaving him in there 1 HR too many. He had absolutely nothing tonight.

Phillies page does not show they signed Mesa

if you don't want to feel any worse about the Garcia trade please turn your head and scroll down so you don't see the rest of my post.

Gio Gonzalez has struck out 83 in 62 innings and only walked 20 and given up 52 hits with an era of 3.00. OUr saving grace to this ridiculous trade is that despite Gavin Floyd's #'s in AAA he will never live up to a #3 overall pick and be anything more than a #5 starter.

They could maybe get Andy Garcia for him.

No Mesa news on ESPN or KFFL either.

Sorry, forgot the link. Ken Rosenthal reported it.

is mesa an improvement over condrey? not sure....

Mesa... Unbelievable... Every step forward and the Phils are determined to take two steps back...

i wonder when the royals announcer will realize that it's Greg Dobbs and not "Glenn" Dobbs...

You would think the Phils homepage would have that Mesa signing

I am not sure if i am more distressed by Garica or us signing Mesa. Probably still having Garcia

Jesus. Mesa.

Well, I look forward to seeing Mesa and Alfonseca in the pen.

I'll give you 2:1 odds that the earth's gravity changes as soon as they get near each other.

I guess we have to let condrey face the bottom of the KC lineup. However, we gotta watch him close and NOT let him let the game get out of hand

can condrey be our 5th starter instead of freddy? at this point, i'd even rather see big yoel starting

Can we like move all the good players to another franchise? And we can root for them!



I'm pretty sure Jose is that "final piece" we've been looking for.

If the Mesa signing is true then even the management has pro-actively sought to destroy whatever momentum the team had coming of New York.

SirAlden- how do you feel about freddy after tonight?

I'm pretty sure Jerry Garcia would be that "final piece" we've been looking for.

I do not want to see the phils go out and go get another (once was good but now declining) starting pitcher approaching 30 yrs old ie. Garcia, Millwood, Milton) just to name a few over the past years.

Doesnt he remind anyone else of millwood?

they have got to DL Garcia or something, just get him out of the rotation somehow

let's just throw a new minor league or little league pitcher up every time the 5th spot comes up.......

Utley, Howard, Hamels, Rollins, Myers, Rowand, Victorino, Moyer, Dobbs, Ruiz
Lieber, Eaton, Burrell, Madson, Geary, Bourn, Gordon
Barajas, Helms, Garcia, Condrey, Hernandez, Alfonseca, Zagurski, Nunez, Werth, Rosario, Castro, Smith, Bisenius, Segovia, Mesa

Level one are guys who could be on any MLB team; level two are guys who could be on some contending MLB teams; level three are guys who wouldn't be on any contending MLB team at this time. Guess which level has the most players?

Compared to Garcia, Milwood looked like Roger Clemens.

Ben - he makes too much -- he pitches every 5 days. Rule #1 in the Phillie manual.

There's a reason this team sweeps a good team, then turns around & looks horrible against the dregs of the league. The order of their rotation goes Hamels, Garcia, Lieber, Moyer, Eaton. Hamels almost always pitches well enough to win. Moyer usually pitches pretty well. Eaton & Lieber sometimes pitch well. Garcia never pitches well.

If they get Moyer, Eaton, & Hamels starting in the same series, they stand a good chance of winning 2, possibly 3, games. Not coincidentally, this is the threesome that started in both the Atlanta & Mets sweeps & it was also the threesome that started when they won the first 3 games of a 4-game set against the Brewers. Garcia started the 4th & they lost.

Hey the laugher hit a HR. He officially owns Elarton.

malcolm - STOP DISSING YOEL haha.
how bout that rod barajas? that was crushed...

Malcolm your posts today have been weird. FIrst you announce your man crush for Reyes now rate the phils players by different levels and their ability to play on other teams...huh???? Who cares? And by the way what has Bourn done to show you he has the ability to be a level 2 guy. Oh my god i can't believe i'm classifing players in levels and actually responding to your post. Where is RSB when you need him

You just take things way too seriously, man.

Tough night for Utz.

Don't worry - Utz'll pick it up. We'll win this one.

clay condrey is nails after all that practice against AAA/AAAA level hitters.

malcolm u remind me of parker with all his off the wall posts last september when he was more worried about howard's mvp then if we could make the playoffs.

The ESPN generation of fans only care about the entertainment factor, personal stats of players, and meaningless things that make good sports talk fodder. They often forget the basics and not cheering for players in various sports that play the games the way they should be played with effort, desire and passion.

At least Garcia didn't pout about getting pulled tonight early. Think it is official now and we can call Garcia a "BUST!"

4 Royals are having career nights.

Okay, are you questioning my knowledge and understanding of baseball as a fan now?

Please, let's not get out of line here. You have no idea what kind of fan I am.

malcom, dude. let's debate the important things. like nunez. and our backup catcher. and if anyone in MLB has sideburns as nice as dobbs.

Dobbs does have killer sideburns.

how does pat have a great at-bat, foul off a bunch of pitches, look like he's got a hold on peralta.
and then stares at a fastball as he strikes out looking AGAIN??

Yeah, Clout, the OPS is a fact. so is the fact that Nunez has a modest +2-point-something VORP (a hair over replacement) while Helms has a minus-2-point-something VORP (below replacement level). So, unless you want to send Dobbs out there with a smock and a cleaver, he's the best option we've got. Then again, I notice KC has Teahen out in RF because they've rushed Gordon to the majors. I think he's arbitration-eligible after this year; maybe they'd be willing to trade him. He's nothing special but would be an upgrade over our current options.

After Garcia's brutal performance tonight, I'd be willing to plug Condrey into his rotation spot and let him take Condrey's place as mop-up man. Maybe he's hurt or maybe he's done; either way, I think Eude Brito or Condrey or my aunt Tillie would give us a better chance at winning every fifth day.

Malcolm- I would disagree on the placement-in your "levels" post on the following: Moyer, Dobbs(you kill me with these two); Eaton, Hernandez, Alfonseca, Nunez. The funniest thing about your post, and your comments-is guess what- THE PHILLIES ARE A CONTENDING TEAM

There's no way Condrey is as good as Garcia as a starter. Please get real. I know how poor Freddy has been. I would possibly look to replace him-but condrey is worse.

Reports from the press box say Garcia is hurt. Looks like Brett Myers is back in the rotation... uhh... if he returns soon. If not, uh... can Joe Bisenius start?

Alby: Has your Aunt Tillie lost any velocity on her fastball?

Bravos getting hammered by a patched-together Cubs lineup -- they look ripe for the taking. Took bad we're playing the Royals & not the Mutts or Braves.

The Braves are irrelevant. If we want the wild card, we'll need to beat the 3 NL West teams, whose records are nearly the same as the Mets.

Bring 'em home boys! No more LOB.

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