Game chat: Seeking series win, Phillies face Zito

A light drizzle continues to fall around the Delaware Valley, but the game-time forecast calls for a mixture of sun and clouds this afternoon when the Phillies finish their series with San Francisco.

Preview: Besides Aaron Rowand and Rod Barajas, the Phils have only a handful of at bats against Zito (5-5, 4.21 ERA). The veteran left-hander and recipient of a seven-year, $126 million contract is coming off two great outings against Houston and New York, allowing just one run over 14 innings. He’ll face a Phillies team that has struggled against left-handed pitching, hitting just .235. ... This is an important game for Jon Lieber (2-3, 3.86 ERA) to get back on track. Lieber was rocked for a career-high 13 hits Tuesday against Arizona and had a lackluster start his previous outing in Florida.

A win today and the Phillies finish their homestand a manageable 3-4 before heading to New York for a big series with the Mets.

Lineups are set: Jayson Werth starts in left field, replacing Pat Burrell, who’s struggling in all facets of the game. Wes Helms gets his first start at third base in quite a while. Rod Barajas does the catching. For the Giants, Barry Bonds returns to the lineup seeking his first home run since May 27. [Live Boxscore]

Comments

[Reed]

I'm all for seeing Werth, but bat Rowand 5th!

[GM-Carson]

I agree, get Rowand higher in the order, 5 spot makes sense.

[Bridoc10]

I agree. It doesn't make sense to put a bench player batting .275 ahead of a your everyday CF batting .325.

Way to go, Chollie. Off to a remarkable start, and we've yet to have the first pitch.

[bay_area_phan]

Much has been made this year about how badly the Phillies do against left-handed starters. Gee, do you think it might have anything to do with lineups like the one Cholly is trotting out there today?

[J. Weitzel]

WYSIWYG, BAP.

[bay_area_phan]

What is WYSIWYG?

[J. Weitzel]

What you see is what you get. Not many options when your regulars like Burrell aren't hitting LHP.

[Bridoc10]

Damn.

Walks have killed this team, lately.

Let's hope Lieber can keep a lid on BB.

[Alby]

As has been true throughout his career, the 2007 edition of Barry Zito has been far more successful against RH batters than LH. It only took managers what, 15 years, to realize that Glavine was death to righthanders? So I guess they'll catch on about Zito in about 2013.

[Bridoc10]

Right on, Lieber.

Now get some runs.

It's simply amazing how my productivity at work plummets when this team has a day game.

[bay_area_phan]

True about the options, but I'd still rather use Burrell than Werth. Historically, Burrell has hit left-handers pretty well. And, like I've said in the past, I see no harm in giving Dobbs a few chances to show what he can do against against left-handers. How do we KNOW he can't hit them if he's never given a chance? With Helms & Werth BOTH in the starting lineup where we might have tried Dobbs. It's not like there would be much downside risk in doing so.

[Mike Cunningham]

When did Utley become Abreu?

[stjoehawk]

Did Utley actually try to lay down a sacrifice? Or was he trying to catch everyone off guard & load the bases for Howard?

[bay_area_phan]

I'm watching on Gameday, since I'm purportedly working. Was that Utley play a sacrifice or was he bunting for a hit? If it was a sacrifice, I'm going to throw my coffee cup through my computer monitor.

[Ben Keeler]

looked to me like Utley did it on his own

[bay_area_phan]

BTW, good info. on Zito, Alby. Funny how our manager and his esteemed coaching staff weren't able to find out this same information. I nominate you to be our next manager.

[RSB]

Protection for Howard? Yeah, that whole thing is totally bogus. I know because some guy wrote about it in the Courier-Post.

[Phila Fan In DC]

Well, Helms is going to give me agida today.

[loctastic]

@Phila Fan in DC:

Just today?

[Phila Fan In DC]

Having just eaten lunch, it's more pronounced that usual.

And is it me, or does Lieber look like he either a) lost some weight or b) is wearing a uniform that's huge? When he was walking off between innings and they showed him it looked like his shirt was two sizes too large. Maybe that's the style these days.

[RSB]

DC, not to mention that serious bling around Lieber's neck. That's a serious fashion plate out on the mound today, Northeast Philly-style.

[loctastic]

I think Lieber did slim down. He has to try his best this year; it's his contract year.

[Mike Cunningham]

Interesting Bases Loaded stats:
Coming in to today, the Phils are batting .271 good for 9th in the NL. This is 50 points higher than the last time I checked a few weeks ago. I'm sure the Atlanta series helped this mark.

The Phils have scored 51 runs/46RBI with the bases full. 1 back of the Marlins who have scored 52 runs and lead the NL.

The Phils have worked 9 WALKS during these situations (tied for 1st in NL.)

Biggest Bases Loaded Culprits? Carlos Ruiz 1 for 9 with 3RBI. Rollins (3 AB/2Ks) and Burrell (2 AB/1 walk) each have zero hits. Wes Helms 3K in 6AB although he has 5RBI.

The Best? Greg Dobbs is batting .375 with 7RBI. Rowand was 3 for 5 with 7RBI (Before this game). Chase 2 for 4 with 6RBI. Ryan Howard has the sole Grand Salami.

[RSB]

Lieber's kickin' some Northeast Philly-style with the crew cut, the gut, and the serious bling around his neck.

[RSB]

How about a nice bunt here?

[RSB]

I would hope this is the last time we see Jayson Werth hitting fifth.

[bay_area_phan]

RSB, You could have left out the last 2 words of your post & I'd still agree with it.

[MG]

This game has all the makings of a classic Phils' squander. Good starting pitching outing wasted by an inability to take advantage of scoring opportunities and a bullpen that will serve up the game late.

The question is what reliever blows the game today - I see a L for El Pulpo.

[Ben Keeler]

This game has a bad vibe to it, regardless of if the Giants score here or not, which they likely will

[GM-Carson]

Wow, this offense is struggling against a lefty, who would have though?

Way to go Lieber, giving up a homer to a crappy hasbeen (Klesko).

Looks like it's the $hitty version of the Phils today.

[Zeke]

I am SO sick of how gutless this team is. They allow Klesko to do that very emphatic pose after the homer and do NOTHING Bonds?? Even with a 3-1 count! They have not thrown at one single batter this year (D-Train does not count, that was an accident).
Typical emotionless bums. I realize that Bonds just scored, but they were going to walk him anyway, why not send a message not to show up out pitchers.

[MG]

Looks I was wrong about the bullpen will blow the game. . . Lieber is doing just fine by himself.

[GM-Carson]

This game is getting ugly in a hurry. The real Jon Lieber has returned, the unreliable one.

[Zeke]

Now that the game might get out of hand, if Manual has any guts/brains at all he will bean Klesko in the thigh next time up and light a fire under this team.

[curt]

Just 1 question for anyone watching on TV: was Winn's "soft ground ball" to Helms actually a hit?

[bay_area_phan]

Last game, we got 5 good innings of work from Lieber & 1 diastrous inning. Today, we got 4 good innings of work and 1 disastrous inning. His modus operandi is different, but the final results are pretty much the same as Freddy Garcia's.

On the bright side, now that the Phillies are hopelessly out of this game, I'm sure we'll see their bats come to life.

[Bridoc10]

How many runners LOB can we get out of THIS inning?

[duder-CO]

Helms needs to make that play at 3rd on Winn's grounder. Why is he playing today? With Leiber pitching they really need someone with a clue at 3rd base.

[Bridoc10]

Now this is interesting...

[loctastic]

How are they "hopelessly out of this game"? Didn't they just score 9 runs yesterday?

They're not out of it - although it certainly doesn't look good.

[Bridoc10]

Why didn't Rollins score on that? From Gameday, it looked deep enough...and Bonds can't throw anymore!!!

[GM-Carson]

C'mon Howard, bases loaded with no outs and that's what you do. What happened to you this offseason, what happened to your drive and focus?

[Zeke]

Curt,
Winn flew done the line for a legit hit.

[Zeke]

Come on Bridoc10, you can't criticize Rollins when you aren't even watching the game. He would have been out by 10 feet.

[Bridoc10]

I asked a question, Zeke. Take it easy...

[GM-Carson]

I wish I knew the stat for bases loaded for all situations (no outs, 1 out, and 2 outs)...because this club sucks all the way around when it comes to bases loaded.

[curt]

Zeke -- early in the 5th, 1 out, 1 on? Gameday has a "soft ground ball to Helms."

[Mike Cunningham]

it's so fitting that JRoll breaks out of his slump a little going 3 for 3 and he's only scored 1 run.

[Bridoc10]

The good news here is that Zito is up around 100 pitches and the Giants' pen is as bad as ours.

[bay_area_phan]

The only difference between Lieber & Garcia is that I cuss at Garcia throughout the entire game whereas, with Lieber, my cussing occurs over a much more concentrated time period. By the time both pitchers leave, however, the total number of cuss words coming from my mouth is exactly the same.

[bay_area_phan]

The only difference between Lieber & Garcia is that I cuss at Garcia throughout the entire game whereas, with Lieber, my cussing occurs ovre a much more concentrated time period. By the time both pitchers leave, however, the total number of cuss words coming from my mouth is exactly the same.

[duder-CO]

curt,
helms only chance on that play was to bare-hand the ball. he caught it in the glove, made the throw and could not get Winn.
once again, a poor defensive play for a major league player. he needs to realize the speed of the batter and try to get him out any way possible.

[Bridoc10]

Of course, the bad news is our pen is already in this game.

*Sigh*

[RSB]

Typical BPS showing for the Phils. You can't beat 'em on Sunday afternoons, but any other day of the week they're out there with the lights off, they crap their pants.

The Phillies' rotation, after doing such a solid job in most of May, is looking thoroughly mediocre these days. Maybe they can rally together after Gillick dumps five players at the deadline and says they can't compete until 2009.

[GM-Carson]

This team is in shambles.

[loctastic]

I hope Zagurski isn't too rattled from being taken away from sharing recipes with Alfonseca to pitch a half-decent inning or two today.

[GM-Carson]

RSB with the extremely pessimistic post...I like it!

[RSB]

Holy Ding-Dongs. Zagurski makes Lieber look like Slim Goodbody.

[stjoehawk]

"I wish I knew the stat for bases loaded for all situations (no outs, 1 out, and 2 outs)...because this club sucks all the way around when it comes to bases loaded."

Actually, with the bases loaded, they're better than they are with 1st & 2nd or 1st & 3rd (with regards to AVG, OBP & SLG (actually SLG is slightly better for 1st & 2nd)).

Can't get the stats for loaded by out status yet.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?team=PHI&year=2007

[Bridoc10]

I hope Zagurski will leggo my eggo...

[Zeke]

Sorry to be crase Bridoc, watching this team on my day off is driving me nuts.
Curt,
it was a "bang-bang" play, but Wynn was safe because of his speed. Rolen probably would have made that play, but wasn't Helms' fault (and I think Helms sucks).

[Willard Preacher]

This is one of the easiest situations to make money on, if you're a gambler. If you bet against the Phils every time they had a chance to either win a 3-game series when the first two were split, or win a 4-game series after winning 2 of the first 3, you would be very, very wealthy. Not sure if they keep stats on winning % in situations like this, but the Phillies lose far more times than they win when they have a chance to "put the nail in the coffin" in a series.

[bay_area_phan]

If major league baseball ever institutes the World Series of Fat Slobs, the Phillies will be able to compete with anyone.

[Bridoc10]

No worries, Zeke. I wish I could watch the game rather that "watch" the game on my work computer.

[JB]

Rollins called it in the beginning of the year - we are the team to beat.

[loctastic]

Fat slobs? If the team was winning, we'd be calling them 'characters' (see '93 Phillies).

[RSB]

What kind of advice is that from a preacher?

[curt]

Duder - thanks. Sounds like a tough play for anyone.

[Bridoc10]

Yay! More baserunners to leave stranded...

Zito is practically handing the Phillies this game, and this team won't take advantage of his largesse.

[loctastic]

Alright, PTB! Time for some good baseball here.

[stjoehawk]

Willard: Not sure how accurate that is. I'm looking at the schedule for 2007 & it seems to be around 50/50.

If you count the Astros series (where they split the first two & the third game was made up 2 weeks later), and if I counted correctly, they're 4-4 in your situation this year (going into today).

[SirAlden]

Three bad starts for Leiber. Sad. Aside from Madson, Burrell is the greatest disappointment this year, if both were rocking we would be rolling.

Madson is directly responcible for 5 blown games and Burrell not even starting today can't ever get a pitch to hit as the only righthanded big power threat so he is taking his walks. Maybe puting him ahead of Howard might work, he is protecting noone.
Time move him up a spot or down to 8th.

[Mike Cunningham]

Why are you going on contact down 4?

[Bridoc10]

What was that?!?! Going on contact with 1 out?

Please advise.

[RSB]

After a game like this, the entire team should be forced to line up on the chalk lines with bags over their heads and endure a hearty booing for ten solid minutes.

[Reed]

perfect way to get momentum going into Shea

[Bridoc10]

Interesting headline on phillies.com

Notes: Werth showing his worth

uh...not today.

[curt]

That vaunted rotation is rapidly becoming Cole and Moyer and pray for rain. And I don't like the thought of Moyer against the Mets next.

[Reed]

This just in:
Kevin Frandsen, Fred Lewis, Bengie Molina, and Ryan Klesko make All-Star Team!

[Why Do I Still Believe?]

Did anyone else's Gameday stop working, or is my sys admin at work onto me? :P

[Willard Preacher]

stjoe, thanks for digging into it. Maybe I'm just jaded, as I can't remember the last time the Phils won a "dagger" game. Seems like they get complacent come the last games of every series.

[curt]

Say it ain't so, Yoel.

We'll, we've been good for the self-esteem of these stiffs in the SF lineup.

[Zeke]

Werth's catch #1 WebGem tonight, bank it.

[clout]

Yoel giving up hits? Well, imagine that.

P.S. Sir Alden, you are extremely silly to blame the bullpen problems on Madson. It is a group effort. There were a fair number of Beerleaguer posters, albeit a minority, who spent the offseason saying the 'pen needed help. It didn't take a rocket scientist to see that they had no one qualified to be a setup man and no one qualified to be a closer if Gordon got hurt.

[curt]

Same old story. Starting pitching collapse, relief pitching fails, 4-5-6 hitters leave 18 guys on base through 7 inn. A team effort.

[Mike Cunningham]

The Phils... outscored 31 to 15 against the Giants. Without the Hamels performance? 29 to 10.

Pathetic.

[Willard Preacher]

clout, unless I'm using revisionist history here, aside from "protection for Howard," bullpen help was deemed to be the biggest need in the off-season for this team. Not sure that it was a minority, unless it was just a handful of us posting repeatedly.

[GM-Carson]

Larry Andersen cracks me up. When Fransden got yet another hit, Larry asks, "Why is it that .200 hitters look like Babe Ruth against the Phillies?". Franske (sp?) response, "I'm not sure".

Today's effort = total sh*t!

[Willard Preacher]

Unfortunately, even though this was a series split, the Phils were dominated, save for the Hamels effort. This was not the performance of even a weak Wild Card contender. Continued play like this will result in the Mets blowing the doors off us (even with only 1/2 of their regular starting lineup) and a path toward trade deadline sell-offs.

[D. Patrone]

I agree. If anyone doubts that we will get absolutely killed by the Mets, please I'd like to read those sentiments. And there is no doubt in my mind that there will be a sell-off in July (i've posted that before)and that all we will hear from PG and management are more excuses.

After 30 home games attendence is up a total of 153,881 from 2006. So keep going to games, giving the onwers what they want so they can keep giving us the shaft.

[Will]

anybody know if a pitcher has to declare left or right-handedness for a whole game or per batter? Theoretical question came up when I was thinking about a possible pitcher who could pitch equally well lefty and righty. Don't know if MLB has this addressed or not.

[Mike H.]

No argument here... they will be crushed by the Mets this week.

[AWH]

Patrone, thank you for your support. I have been stating that on this board fr quite some time.

The only thing that is going to get The Walking Sphincter and his Puppet to make any real changes are when they get hit in the wallet.

Why was Ed Wade fired? Because enough season ticket holders basically told The Puppet to go screw himself - they weren't going to renew their seats as long as Wade was in place.

You want Giles and the rest of these incompetent, low baseball I.Q. owners to sell? BOYCOTT. That's what it will take.

Only when faced with real long-term erosion of the franchise's value, will they even consider making the one move that has a chance to give this team's fans something to really look forward to every year.

[curt]

Each visit to the Bank is a love letter to ownership begging them to never change a thing.

[Dave X]

There has been a "switch-pitcher" before, but only one in the last 100 years who's pitched in a game that way.

[RSB]

Nobody's going to boycott baseball games. You can stand on the corner with a megaphone by City Hall for days on end, and maybe 1,000 people will listen to you and emphatically agree. And 600 of them will attend a game in the next homestand. Unless you can prove that the ownership group belongs to the Ku Klux Klan, it just isn't going to happen.

A wild-card would seem much less likely to even dream about this time around, however. Not only are the Braves a significantly better team in front of them, but the NL West boasts four teams which boast more talent than the Phils. It'd almost be better for the team to take its lumps for a full season and reveal itself for what it truly is: a mediocrity. More might get done in the off-season, for one thing.

Will, the Phillies briefly employed an ambidextrous pitcher named Greg Harris, and my recollection is that a pitcher has declare his 'handedness' on an inning-to-inning basis; can't change it up for every batter. I could be wrong on that, though.

[clout]

Will: The rule is per batter with the batter getting to declare last (if he is a switch-hitter.) The only pitcher in the 20th century who actually pitched with both arms in a game was Greg Harris of the Expos and it happened only once.

[curt]

RSB - Some of us have boycotted for years...never been to the Bank, but have seen the Phils in 4 other cities. My whole extended family has been boycotting since the mid-1990s. No, the franchise isn't about to be sold, but that isn't our fault.

[Alby]

There was a story in the New York TImes a few weeks ago about a college pitcher who uses both arms and is considered a prospect.

BAP, I looked up Zito's splits during the off-season, when several phans were panicky about his possible signing by the Mets. After watching today's phutility, I'm reconsidering my opinion that it wouldn't have helped the Mets as much as phans feared.

[RSB]

Curt: I know there are people who have conviction enough to boycott, and I am not knocking the sentiment. If you don't abide something, it is admirable to not support it. But don't pretend it really makes a difference in the larger scheme of things. The Phillies cater to fans who don't care so much about baseball, that love the Phanatic and the wave and the food, and perhaps a few of the more marketable players. And face it, they've done a great job of targeting these folks. They're not going anywhere, and they'll vastly outnumber the true baseball fans every year, and your efforts to stymie the Phillies will amount to absolutely nothing.