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Tuesday, June 12, 2007

Comments

"So you are saying they didn't require an MRI b/c they're cheap?"

O'Neil, you need to read more carefully. I wrote that "ridiculously cheap" could be eliminated.

That left "foolish".

DC fan, your questions on the previous thread make too much sense for the Phils to answer.

Eh, i moved on. (not a big deal)

Phils really, really need to not trade for Trachsel. MLB Trade Rumors had a good post, which I will quote:

"Even a cursory glance at the underlying stats reveal that Trachsel's success this year is a house of cards. First, he has an absurdly low strikeout rate of 2.75 per nine. That's right, he's whiffed 23 in 75 innings. Lowest strikeout rate in the Majors given 70 IP? We have a winner, although Zach Duke and his 5.75 ERA is right there.

How about his control? 4.3 walks per nine is not good. Home run rate? Pretty good at 0.84 per nine, but not likely to last since he's a flyball pitcher.

So what has Trachsel done well this year? He's allowed just eight hits per nine innings, in large part because of a .241 BABIP. Previous Trachsel BABIPs: .299, .282, .280. Normal stuff. The .241 mark is fourth best in baseball, and has no chance of lasting."

AWH, I agree. But I look at the Yankees example: their team was having physical problems so they fired their S&C coach (excuse me, "director of performance enhancement.") Are we going to wait till the end of the season to handle these problems, like with did with our position coaches? If that's the case, does the inability to handle problems when they occur harm us with free agents (and does this compound the problem we have attracting pitching with our hitter’s park)? And if I'm a player on the team, I'm concerned that the team's docs don't look track down every potential problem, they just diagnose the problem I described. Very few people actually know what their problem is when they go to the doctor's office, and it seems to me that Garcia went in and they targeted exactly what he told them- my bicep hurts. This is like what happens when regular guys like you or me go in and says his arm hurts and they can't find anything physically wrong, but two weeks later he has a heart attack. No, there might have been nothing wrong with the arm, but there was a larger issue that the doctors should have caught. The Phils need to hold their docs accountable, just like they'd hold their ticket account managers if season ticket sales were down.

On another note, our old friend Eric Milton is out for the year(elbow surgery), and the Chisox Joe Crede is out indefinitely(back surgery).

Also, the Mets are apparently trying to add relief help, and if the Chicago Sun Times is to be believed, Aaron Rowand is headed back to Chicago.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/423697,CST-SPT-soxnt12.article

Not the way you want to start. Cole's good enough to recover, but with a struggling team like this it would have been nice to put up some more zeros first.

can you imagine how good cole hamels will be if he stops giving up so many long balls?

i'm beginning to think that hamels homerun problem is due to the guy calling the games.

A two out bases loaded single? I like this Dobbs guy...

Dobbs' hit was perfectly placed, barely squeezing out of reach between the 1B and 2B.

Great job getting those runs back. Would love to get into their pen early.

Sorry but I don't think Dobbs "placed" that ball at all, he just got lucky hitting it where he did.

tray -

what is the difference between a good hitter, and a shlub?

or, if dobbs' hit was "luck", or a ball that had eyes, what does that make barajas' efforts? skill?

Putting some good swings on the ball tonight. Barajas and Rollins both just missed.

I think Lopes's job with the baserunners has been extremely positive this year. It's not talked about much on Beerleaguer, but the fact that we have a set of guys who can and _do_ run has extended leads and helps out the batters. This is true even if only the threat of stealing is there.

Tray... what's your deal? No one is saying Dobbs knew exactly where the ball was going, but he pulled it into the hole in a key early game situation.

Baseball is a game of inches... if you wante to, you could say any play was luck. It's the good players how get "lucky" more than the bad.

Barajas hit the ball hard, if it had fallen in a gap it'd be a double. Dobbs hit what would be, had it not gone to that particular spot, a routine groundout. Overall of course, Dobbs is a better hitter than Barajas, he strikes out less, puts the ball in play more, pops up less, hits fewer easily fieldable ground balls, gets the ball in the air more, but on that particular play, I don't give him much credit, it's the kind of cheap hit that Nunez excelled at hitting when he was hitting .300-plus for the month of May.

tray,

this is silly. you said: if either guy hit the ball elsewhere, the results would have been different. nosh!t.

some guys can put the ball where they want when they get the right pitch to hit. its why they're better batters.

My god Tray... this has to be the dumbest complaint I've ever heard on this list... and that says a lot.

Is the problem that Dobbs' hit was too close to the fielders? That it wasn't further away from the players who could have gotten it? Would that make it a more legitimate hit and less "lucky"?

Get a damn clue lol

Could we pay Barajas to just stand there and not swing?

the heat has really been off barajas lately...lucky for him that his worst plays of the season coincided with chooch going cold (and coste not counting as a valid human being to this organization)

Cooch's hand injury would give the team perfect cover to bring Coste up. Yes, I know it isn't a DL type injury, but I'd still like to see the best 25 with the big team.

Hey, if anyone has the number to call for the Myers signing, can they post it? I'm watching on mlb.tv and eating dinner at the same time, so I didn't get to write it down.

That's got to be the first time anyone's said anything good about Smith all season.

Really good hitting tonight... a strength of this offense should be forcing pitchers to throw a lot of pitches... getting counts in their favor and then taking advantage of mistakes. Now let's hold it.

From Radano's blog this evening are below. So it's not that they were cheap, they just trusted what they saw. "Trust but verify" comes to mind:

"We didn't think a physical was necessary based on the conversation between our doctors and (Chicago White Sox) doctors and our training staff and their training staff. We were satisfied that his health was good and our scouts saw him pitch in September on the 29th of September and they thought he was healthy on that start.

"Consequently, their vigil observation and on the exchange of information we had we felt comfortable."

Gillick downplayed any suspected malfeasance on the Phillies part even though it's become a hot topic around town. The Phillies are paying Garcia $10 million this year and traded away one hot prospect in Gio Gonzalez and another - Gavin Floyd - which was more addition by subtraction.

"I would have to think basically that something happened over the winter or at the beginning of spring training," Gillick said. "Normally we have a free agent base our contract on a physical. You might do it on a trade and you might not. It depends on the circumstances of the trade.

"It's one of those situations you have to act and respond in a timely manner so it's a little different situation."

Gillick and Garcia both commented that rest my end up being the cure but reports from his MRI on Monday indicated he had among other things, fraying around the rotator cuff.


"I'm optimistic he'll pitch," Gillick deadpanned. "That second opinion is not our opinion. He had the right and he sought it. From our standpoint we got a healthy player. It's one of those things that happens in baseball. People come up with injuries. No, I don't regret it. The information we had we think he was sound. Making a deal you have to pull the trigger."

I'm sure there's some CYA there, but that sounds reasonable to me. Doctors, scouts and Garcia himself, didn't say anything. However, it goes to show that with a pitcher (and a huge $ investment), maybe an MRI should be obligatory.

An MRI by itself is practically useless. I am not a doctor (but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night) so I would venture to say if you take an MRI of any pitcher's shoulder, you are likely to see plenty of microtears and small tears (strains). The MRI should be used in the context of evaluating a problem (pain) that a pitcher is having.

Due diligence demands that your docs actually look at the player. Yes, this isn't a free agent, but now we're looking at $10,000,000 that we're paying him instead of whatever Gavin and Gio's salaries were. The reason we skipped over Borowski was that he didn't pass the physical; instead we trade for a guy who we didn't even let our docs look at.

I believe this is my disappointment expressing itself. This is the guy we were all excited about over the off season and now we’re left being happy that Lieber didn’t get traded over the off-season.

Thanks slackerjoe. That's a great point.

So then I'll maintain my disappointment that we were unable to diagnose any problem during the spring when we only treated him for bicep problems.

what would the whitesox fans say if thome's knees would have imploded early?

My counter to Thome's health. That's why we were looking to deal him to an AL team, so that he could be a DH, not an everyday 1st Baseman.

Sorry for the bad grammar: My counter to the Thome health question is that it was common knowledge, based on the games he had missed, that he had some heatlh issues. That's why we were looking to deal him to an AL team, so that he could be a DH, not an everyday 1st Baseman.

I'm an old fart who remembers the day when teams used four-man pitching rotations, so I gotta laugh at the hubbub about who'll be the 5th starter. Why not go retro chic and use a four-man rotation rather than bring up a minor leaguer who's not major-league ready?

Yeah, yeah, I know, ain't gonna happen. And considering that Moyer is 44 years old, it's probably not tenable, anyway. (Perhaps the five-man rotation is a big reason why there are so many 40 y.o. pitchers these days.)

Next year's Phillies starting rotation is already filled with gaping holes considering that Garcia and Leiber most likely won't be back. If so, will be interesting to see what that means for Myers.

yeah zeb, that's one of the biggest reasons that Myers' bullpen move really can't be long-term (that and the salary issue). we just don't have the pitchers in 2008.

i'm about 7 miles N of the stadium, and we gots lighting. this is gonna be called.

I think this is frustrating and unfortunate, but I think it's a case of Ken Williams looking at Garcia's innings pitched, over the years, velocity downgrade, being a Free agent after the season and rolling the dice to go young. Good for him(prick).

Get "Six Fingers" loose. Geary is putting out fire with gasoline.

I think this is frustrating and unfortunate, but I think it's a case of Ken Williams looking at Garcia's innings pitched, over the years, velocity downgrade, being a Free agent after the season and rolling the dice to go young. Good for him(prick).

3 games over .500 -- and it only took 65 games to get there.

Nice win tonight. Hamels was great as usual.

Let's not let up on the ChiSox though. We need to sweep them and keep the momentum going.

More great pitching. Another easy win. Boring night on Beerleaguer.

Burrell for all his faults really started that big inning off by working the walk with the bases loaded to open up the flood gates. From all I've heard from some reputable sources (other than web) the guy really is a hard worker and is the 1st guy to arrive to the field and one of the last to leave. He may not talk to the media much but he's not afraid to admit when he screws up. I think we've all given up hope that he will hit .275 with 30-40 hr ever again. So while its not the best thing in the world to have your 6th or 7th hitter making over $10 million its really not that bad for this team as long as Howard keeps turning things around. All this changes if we do decide to deal Rowand and then Burrell is forced to move up in the order again.

Sorry I couldn't post during the actual game, but I want to note that Sarge was a real class act in going down to those kids who didn't get a foul ball and delivering one to each of them.

For those who didn't see the game on local TV, someone grounded a foul down the rightfield line, and a camera reaction shot picked out two kids, probably 8 and 10. Wheels gave the standard line, "There's a fan who got a souvenir," only to amend it a moment later, saying, "I'm told they didn't get that foul ball." Three innings later, the cameras pick up Sarge galumphing down the aisle with balls for the kids. You could read the mother's lips saying "Oh my God!" It was a little corny, I'll admit, but I've been watching Phillies games for 40 years and I've never seen that before. Like I said, class guy. There's no longer any question in my mind about whether he was a good hire.

Hamels was good yet again tonight but the Phils finally ran into a lineup that has made their pitching look like All-Stars. Might arguably be one of the worst opposing lineups the Phils see this year (Padres and Pirates also might be worthy of consideration).

My only gripe is yet again Cholly manages to use one of his better relievers (Geary) in a completely meaningless situation (up by 5 runs in the 9th).

Why? Why does this idiot continue to do that? Tonight was the perfect chance to give Rosario some work and save Geary for tomorrow night for when Kendrick pitches. It is almost a certainty that Geary will be needed tomorrow night.

I don't understand why Cholly refuses to manage more than one game at a time. I will now go bang my head against the wall.

I am so sick and tired of listening to the Phils' management just outright lie to the media and their fans. The latest facade is this whole Garcia thing.

Honestly, the Phils' management must think their fans are some of the dumbest SOBs around. I just don't get it.

I think that with Cole's record at 9-2 right now he has to be a contender to start the All Star game. The only better pitcher right now in the NL is Jake Peavy and Cole may surpass him soon.

As far as this Garcia thing goes, I do think that they got damaged goods and got screwed because of the failure to have him examined. Now Gillick is talking crap to cover his butt.

I'm very disillusioned at this point with Gillick.

For the $10 million the geniuses running the Phillies are spending on Freddy Garcia this season, they have gotten a total of 5 wins in the games he started. $2 million per win. He started 11 games - $909,000 per game - almost Roger Clemens type money.

If only they had done a Borowski...

I don't really get all the talk about the supposed weakness of the White Sox lineup. they've been victim to a lot of bad luck this year (i.e. situational hitting, simultaneous slumps) - but Konerko and Dye are very dangerous, Pierzynski and Iguchi are pretty good hitters, and Fields is a highly rated prospect. they're certainly no worse than the Royals, who had no trouble racking up runs this weekend.

I'm a big Hamels fan, but he's not in Peavy's league right now. sure, ERA doesn't tell you everything, but the difference between 1.97 and 3.47 is, uh, pretty damn significant.

For those who didn't see the local TV telecast, Wheeler at one point said that Dobbs and Alfonseca figured prominently in the team's recent hot streak, and noted they were "two great pickups by Pat Gillick." I missed the pre-game show, so I don't know if at any point he noted that the acquisition of Garcia was a major screw-up by Pat Gillick, but I kind of doubt he did.

By the way -- I'm sure DavThom will appreciate this -- the Phils are now 18-5 in games Dobbs starts.

Damn. If the Phils didn't have an off-day Thursday, it would be Verlander and Hamels on Sunday.

AWH, Borowski's saves are more illustration of how meaningless the stat is. They ought to come up with a new category for "real saves," that is, situations when a pitcher enters with the tying run at the plate. That would mean a "real save" only when someone enters the game at the start of the 9th in a 1-run game. Hell of a lot fewer meaningless "saves" that way. As we've seen, even Alfonseca can rack up saves entering a game with a 3-run lead and nobody on base.

MG, it's 'circle the wagons' time again for the Phillies, after another collosal blunder.

I find it simply amazing that as careful as they are about keeping to their budget (they're not cheap - in the payroll top 9 if you count Thome's cost), they didn't insist on doing a more thorough job on someone who was slated to be the second highest paid player on the team -10.5% of payroll.

They can spin it any way they want, circle 'em up, but no matter what they look like a bunch of idiots.

But you're right, they think you're stupid enough to believe them. Such is their contempt for the intelligence of you, the fan.

Alby, a "Borowski" was a reference to the fact that Joe WAS GIVEN A PHYSICAL!!! That's all.

Good God, I couldn't even imagine the negativity on this board if we had LOST the first two games of this series.
(And for the record, I'm mad and pissed off about Garcia, too...but, jeez, enjoy a win for a few minutes.)

Alby, are they not allowed to compliment any good pickups, or do they have to counter each compliment with a negative comment about a bad pickup? That comment is similar to the comment about Dobbs hit not being a nice one.

will, we enjoy the wins, but let's not delude ourselves about this season's prospects for this team.

Losing Garcia, the Garcia we thought the Phils were getting, hurts this team A LOT.

The six starters the Phils went into the season with are now down to five, and if Myers goes back into the rotation, with Gordon not back the pen will be weakened.

Now...I am guilty of being historically negative towards the baseball management of this team. This is a problem that the hiring of Pat 'Seattle Stew' Gillick was supposed to solve. Unfortunately, the osmosis seems to have occured in the other direction, and Gillick is making the same kind of stupid moves (need I list them) that previous GMs have made. Either that or he's lost his touch.

This alone makes it more difficult to jump on the bandwagon, as there is nobody in place who can fix the problems this team has.

The truth is that unless they move Mesa into the rotation :-), NO ONE -- Kendrick included -- could do a worse job in the last 3 1/2 months of the season than Garcia has done in his first 2 1/2 months.

So while heads should roll (but won't) for this pre-season gaffe, the reality on the field is that the Phillies are about to get slightly better than they were last week, when "Fredo" was giving up 6 runs every 5 days.

Ha! LA just hit back-to-back-to-back home runs against the Mets, the last by the pitcher Kuo, who flipped his bat Lo-Duca-style.

Thank God I went tonight. Great game. Hamels really looked good after settling down there. Utley had a monster game, Dobbs is the real deal, but Ruiz should've been catching. Still, a fantastic game. First row seats along the first base line and two Flying Fish. Awesome night.

And how about that Verlander?

Alby said -- "By the way -- I'm sure DavThom will appreciate this -- the Phils are now 18-5 in games Dobbs starts."

Indeed I do appreciate that stat, Alby. Even though Dobbs was hitting .185 for his last 10 games going into tonight's game, the guy has been productive hitting for power and in the clutch. Actually, before Dobbs' slow regular season start -- earning my early-season criticism of him -- I had described Dobbs coming out of ST as being the "real deal" -- my exact words on this board.

I do hink you'll admit that Dobbs has made a couple of costly errors this year, and that this iron-gloved guy is probably better suited as an American League lefty DH/1B/3B/OF, then he is a National League player.

That said, a platoon of Dobbs/Coste at third base is something that should be tried -- and the roster spot on the 25-man for Coste would be the one Helms had before he was traded/released.

Will, the negativity has been driven, to some degree, by me, through several threads today. It wasn't an in-game or post-game thing, it developed as we learned more about the extent of Garcia's injury.

I'm one of the more optimistic Phillies fans out there. When we made the trade for Garcia, I felt like we were taking a step to win the games that we had lost this year simply because we were told this guy's a gamer. During our slow April I remained confident that based on our starting pitching and our batting, we would win enough to take the Wild Card. But I grew disenchanted with Garcia the night he snapped at Charlie because I felt like his attitude was selfish as compared to being the Champion that we were told he was. And to find out that his arm problems have been there all along but he's been complaining about not being allowed to work himself out of a jam- that's just horrible. The team is bigger and more important than him.

Over the weekend (or possibly last night) someone mentioned on the broadcast that when they played the Phillies they always felt the intensity and attitude. Garcia's attitude- from what we can read in his quotes- isn't that. Rollins looked disgusted tonight while handing his helmet over to Lopes- I like that attitude, and I love Lopes nodding with him and not cutting him slack. I like it when Chase is po'ed after not being able to turn a double play or when Ryan is upset with his swing, they both seem to work a little harder. Bourn messes up while running the bases and he goes out with Lopes and works at it. A long time ago I learned that the thing about Phila fans is that we care just a bit more than the other fans and that we value players who do the same.

Garcia has always is the pitching version of Bobby Abreu. Selfish and without emotion.

Garcia has always is the pitching version of Bobby Abreu. Selfish and without emotion.

yes, that's what's wrong with Garcia. nothing to do with his arm.

Dave, I thought Dobbs would be the kind of player you would root for. I know he wasn't an indy leaguer, but he might as well be -- it seems like he's never gotten a good chance because his glove will never impress anybody. I agree a Dobbs/Coste platoon is worth trying at 3B.

Will: The negativity despite a couple of wins is a welcome change to me; I was a little tired of the unbridled optimism that greeted every little surge. I think Bill Conlin was spot on with his rip of Gillick yesterday. They didn't do their homework and got burned. That said, I disagree with Dukes. Garcia has not been spurned by his teammates; I suspect they appreciated that he tried to pitch through his pain. He didn't look shunned down there on the bench tonight.

Actually, Kendrick could easily pitch worse than Garcia. Most of his starts he just gave up a couple runs but got his pitch count so high he could only go 5 innings. He only got lit up a few starts. Kendrick could easily get lit up all the time. We don't know. They should just put Myers back in the rotation. We've survived this long without him in the bullpen and we'd continue to survive. Of course, if you want to make the playoffs you'll need another reliever, but if you want to make the playoffs you probably don't want Kendrick in your rotation.

I agree Tray, it kind of instantly became accepted that Garcia was unimaginably terrible and anyone could do better. and yeah, he sure was atrocious in his last two starts. but from May 7 to 28, before these last two ugly games, he gave up <= 3 runs and averaged over 6 innings a start. (and while he only won one game, the Phils won 5 of his starts, and could've easily won another 3 with a better bullpen.)

of course I'm not defending him; almost every Garcia start this year has been sheer torture as a Phils fan. but Kendrick's an inexperienced kid who's not exactly tearing up AA ball, let's be realistic.

AWH: You say, "Losing Garcia, the Garcia we thought the Phils were getting, hurts this team A LOT."

If it's any consolation, we didn't really lose that Garcia because we never had him in the first place. What we lost was a guy who wasn't any better than Gavin Floyd was last year. Garcia won exactly one game for us this year, so it's difficult to see how Kyle Kendrick could be any worse.

Easy, b.a.p, he could give up so many runs early that the bullpen wouldn't be able to pick up the win. Even though Garcia won just one game we won some of his starts.

Te Phils won 5 of Garcia's 11 starts.

They scored 43 runs in those 5 wins.

will, here's some optimism. The Stems lost and so did the Braves.

We're 3 games back!!!!!!!!!!!

Well there you go, clearly the guy wasn't such an unmitigated disaster if we went 5-6 in games he started. He never really had any quality starts but most times out his problem was more that he couldn't go deep into the game than that he was giving up a ton of runs. I'm saying you bring an inexperienced prospect up, he might put you out of games completely the way Garcia had been doing his past couple starts. Fortunately Kendrick faces a very weak lineup tomorrow and with Myers supposedly due back the 18th, he may only have to start once or twice more.

Garcia's inability to pitch deep into games was a significant problem, but hardly the only one. His ERA is almost 6.00, which I think is all you need to know about how he performed in the time he WAS in the game.

The fact that the Phillies won 5 games that Garcia started had NOTHING to do with Garcia, & everything to do with the fact that they averaged more than 8 runs a game in those 5 wins. I'm honestly not expecting very much from Kyle Kendrick, but I'm willing to bet that if they score more than 8 runs tomorrow, they'll win the game no matter how he pitches.

I am going to inject this unbridled *but deserving* pessimism with a high level of idealism and say Kendrick will just do perfectly fine and the Phillies will win the world series. And yes to answer the obvious question I have had a few drinks tonight.

Scouting report on Kendrick here:

http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070613/SPORTS01/706130420/1021&theme=


Continued good work from Scott Lauber. He provides better and fresher info on his blog than most of the beat writers from the Philly papers.

Jason, thanks for turning us on to him.

I posted this on my blog this morning. I thought some of you might find it interesting:

3rd Base Debate:
Today I want to focus on 3rd base. No, you pervert, not the stage between copping a feel and going "all the way", but the actual position on the baseball diamond. Charlie Manuel has trotted Abe Nunez, Wes Helms, and Greg Dobbs out to the hot corner this season. During spring training the debate was between Nunez and Helms as to who should be the starter. Since then Helms has played his way out of playing time with horrendous defense and an anemic bat (.245 average and .606 OPS). Wes has been a huge disappointment in my eyes because I was hoping for 15-20 homeruns from him (currently zero) and adequate defense, but he has supplied neither. In fact, Helms played so poorly that No-Hit Nunez was awarded the 3rd base job for about a month, which also coincided with this site being forced to refer to him as Sometimes-Hit Nunez. Have no fear, the flail-and-bail fruitless hack is back, with a measly 3 hits in his last 35 at bats dropping his season's line to a .252 average and .627 OPS. His mitt remains his only draw, but his bat is too much of a drawback. So that leaves us with an "offensive" player in Helms that isn't supplying any offense and playing worse defense than expected and a "defensive" player in Nunez that is only supplying defense...drum roll please- Greg Dobbs. Dobbs, an offseason waiver wire pickup from Seattle, has been doing a tremendous job at the plate (.284 average and .849 OPS) and has fielded well enough at 3rd (1 error plus 2 mental errors) to warrant the starting nod. I actually propose a platoon with Dobbs going against righties and Nunez against lefties...to hell with Helms.

Alby -- We really do agree on Dobbs. The really bears down in hitting situations with runners in scoring position -- 25 RBIs in only 116 at bats this year, with almost half of Dobbs' hits being extra base hits (8 doublts, 1 triple, and 6 HRs).

Garcia was the beneficiary of some good offense, no doubt. but in three of his losses the Phils scored 2, 3, and 4 runs.

look, I'm not saying Garcia was good. but he was, for the most part, mediocre - and mediocrity is actually worth something these days. (not $10M and a good prospect, but something.)

Carson: How do you feel about a Dobbs-Nunez platoon at 3B? Nunez seems marginally better against RH pitching; he could be the infield version of Bourn when we're protecting a lead in the late innings.

Was at the game last night. Utley's homer was magestic. At least from my viewpoint. the diving catch was awesome. The Phils played well defensively yesterday. Dobbs had a pretty good day fielding as well. Hamels is unbelieveable. Gives up two HRs and then just settles down and blows 'em away. Poise, composure. Very nice.

Greg S in Lanc, PA

Preach it, phila fan in dc!

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[b]BONUS! Beyonce Knowles top 100 HOT LINKS!!![/b]

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Wanda Nara is an Argentinian model who became famous after rumors of a romance with football legend Diego Armando Maradona.

Wanda Nara is well known for being a model and a virgin, but this unconfirmed sextape shows that she can suck like a pro.

This is a must see!(click image to see uncensored video)


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