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Saturday, June 30, 2007


That's a $20 million starting lineup, and most of that to 3 guys.

As mentioned in the last thread, the offense must step up to dictate this game. Not only to get things going, but also the help out Happ, like we have been able to help Kendrick. A scoreless first for the Mets would be huge. An early 2 or 3-run lead would be huge fro the Happ-ful Phils.

Going back to Marlon Anderson, one bad thing about Dobbs & bourn becoming fixtures, is that there's no lefty bat. Bring back MA! Package Barajas & Helms to anyone for nothing.

Last, I know you guys are good at throwing stuff about a side-by-side of the Phils and Mets bullpens. We are soooo far away from them and a good reason for that is the non-comparison of pitching coaches.

good thing coste isn't starting. what does he have to do to get the start??

Reed - It is amazing just how much better a pitching coach Rick Peterson Granted Rick Peterson is compared to Dubee.

Granted, Dubee has less talent to work with I can't think of one Phils pitcher you can point to in the past two years who has benefited from Dubee's instruction. I can rattle off at least a handoff of names for Peterson:

1. Oliver Perez
2. Jorge Sosa
3. Pedro Feliciano
4. Joe Smith

Hell, the Phils haven't had a decent pitching coach since Johnny Podres. Even Joe Kerrigan (who is a complete ass but did some decent things as a pitching with the Sox) didn't do much here.

Not a "must-win" today but if the Phils lose these final two games you can pretty much kiss the division goodbye. No way Phils overcome a 7 game deficit.

Well, this one's off to a brilliant start.

The Mets sure do love hitting in this ballpark.

Happ's ERA thus far: 81.00

This is great. On TV it sounds like a Mets home game. Standing Os for the Mets home runs.

When does Madson start warming up?

About what you'd expect when you send out a minor leaguer with an 88 mph fastball to take on the Mets.

How long yet til we get Myers back to pitch the 9th?

This is a disgrace on national tv!!

phillies organization is a disgrace, thanks for not giving garcia a physical you aHOLES

If the Dave Montgomery Fantasy Playoffs started today...

1. Brewers vs. 8. Cubs
2. Mets vs. 7. Phillies
3. Padres vs. 6. Braves
4. Diamondbacks vs. 5. Dodgers

that .5 inning was just like Ryan Howard- strikeout or homerun

phils fans should never sell their tickets to met fans period.

Is it worth mentioning that Jorge Sosa was another guy who was available - cheap - in the off-season?

What can we honestly expect today? Packed house, Mets, terrible ballpark makes LoDuca look like Ruth, debut from a pitcher who wasn't ready to begin with.

Where's the urgency to get something done and get a pitcher in here, other than Mesa and waiver claims? Several veterans have already changed teams. It's the worst pitching staff in the NL.

Can anyone confirm that Geary was sent down for Happ instead of Sanches?


Happ appears to have a nice assortment of pitches, but like any lefty junkballer, if he can't hit his spots he can be crushed. These guys tend to take a little longer to develop than the hard-throwing prospects. But he definitely has major league breaking stuff.

Rusty: Check out the active roster at Curious move. Something to do with options, perhaps?

Coast-to-coast embarrassment. Maybe they'll come back, but it's too nice of a day to find out.

Jason, what does Happ throw? I saw a sharp curve and decent changeup to go with his 87 mph fastball but also saw what looked like a slider, although that might've been a fastball with left to right movement. Maybe he throws 2 kinds of fastballs. If he's already got 4 pitches, that's a plus.

Geary was optioned to Ottawa. Does this mean Durbin stays in the rotation? I hope not.

You know what? I'm sitting here in a hotel room in Toronto halfway through a 7 week assignment (I'm a fundraising consultant) and I can't be happier drinking a beer and being able to watch this game on TV. I don't even care that I have to listen to Tim McCarver who normally gives me an eye twitch and a sudden urge to harm myself. Life is good. Well until the Muts scored three in the first but still.

In CBP, Happ will give up 35 HRs a year. The truly unfortunate thing is that this ownership has overseen the construction of a ballpark that is going to hurt this franchise long after they're gone.

straighten that out!!!

Change-up is his best pitch, Clout. What you're seeing is apparently some type of looping slurve. I guess the difference between his curve and slider isn't much.

I don't expect this to be a crisp outing in a debut vs. the Mets, but his location has always been considered a plus. Between Happ and Durbin, I'd go with the higher ceiling, which is probably Happ. He's in the right environment, rather than Ottawa. I'd prefer a veteran, however.

Kudos to the Phillies. Geary was the right call.

Good at bat by Victorino, let's see if the Black Hole version 2007 is playing today.

GIDP, when did we re-sign David Bell?

Dobbs has been clutch all year...he gets a pass for that one.

RSB would correctly note the difference between this team and previous teams is the eight-hitter wouldn't drive in that extra run there, as Ruiz did. They started poorly, but have really capitalized on scoring opportunities since May.

Did Bourn really break back on that routine fly ball? He's got a lot to learn yet.

Cholly should be ordered to run this lineup out there against righties until further notice.

Jason, actually coaches at all levels teach players that the first step is always back (especially if you are not sure). It's much easier to come in on a ball than it is to go back on it.

Jason: Thanks. I really liked his approach to Delgado in that last AB. Well-placed off-the-plate fastballs and an on-the-plate curve (or slurve).

For me there is no comparison between Durbin and Happ. Happ will be a successful major league starter someday. For Durbin, it is unlikely.

Ruiz absolutely warrants top 5 rookie of the year consideration. He's been a very pleasant surprise.

Some of these guys (Rollins, Utley) still look justifiably hungover from the Reds' series.

Happ showing some Kendrick-like poise.

Nice poise in getting Reyes there, and great location on the pitch. Barring a trade, I'm betting we see Happ again.

I love how our core of position players (Utley, Howard, Rollins, & Ruiz are so young). The youngest is 28! Amazingly only 2 years younger than that old fart Burrell. With no real position prospects on the horizon for the next few years it makes me dream of an infield with the likes of Wright & Reyes.

A scary thought... but I don't think we've seen the best of Ryan Howard yet.

Happ settles in and Howard ties the ballgame. Not bad for a (justifiably) tired group of hitters and a AA pitcher.

Then Beltran has to go and do that.

Bad pitch to LoDuca, pretty bad pitch to Wright, decent pitch to Beltran is how I'd rate the home runs hit today.

Jason: Exactly right. THe pitch Beltran hit was a curve off the plate. He only reached it by one-handing it! One-handed HR shows what a piece of crap this stadium is for pitchers.

Beltran's was nearly a foot off the plate.

If you were a FA pitcher with other options why would you come and pitch in a place where pitches a foot off the plate can be pulled for HRs, & balls hit off the end of the bat go for opposite field shots?

Afraid we'll always end up with the Eaton's of the world.

Jason -- how often will Wright hit that pitch out vs. ground out? It was a breaking pitch below his knees!

I'd definitely rate Happ over Durbin, but there's no way we have a chance if he stays in the rotation with Kendrick. Either Myers has to start again, or Garcia needs to come back healthy, or they need to make a trade.

dont worry about the stadium. Remember it will be outdated soon and i'm sure this cheap ass ownership will start its bitching about something in about 10 yrs. Chances are the city will be forced to build another in around 2040. BTW - the natural grass is nice though! Damn i miss the Vet and those football field lines!

Phillies will lose. All the Mets have to do is throw the freakin bat out there and they get base hits. FFS.

To be honest this team is just a .500 team. I think some other guy said it right in post on the previous thread. Come Monday we are staring dead on at .500. We need three legit starters no fringe AAA guys, at least three relievers, a reliable power closer aka Billy Wagner, and at least one powerhitting outfielder.

Wouldn't Carlos Lee look good in Leftfield. Or better yet Soriano in the OF which would've opened up the ability to trade Rowand for a setup guy/closer type like Lidge before the season But those things would have meant the ownership would have to spend $ and be ProActive! Not these bums.

I want to make up a petition to handout to those other 1.5 million fans to visit CBP for the remainder of the season to ask for a copy of the team's income statements for the last 10 years. I'd be willing to bet they are making some serious $ since this new cash cow opened.

Joe l: I'll take your word for it. It looked down and in and hittable to me. Wright had no problem with it from the looks of it.

I don't think this team's problem is not having Carlos Lee or Soriano. Though if Rowand were expendable it would help us improve the pitching staff, as you say.

I wonder if Durbin made the bar rounds last nite announcing his promotion to the big show and sucessful 1st start with the Sillies. I just hope he posted some pics of those hot bitches on his myspace page like last yrh

Nice job by Madson.

Tray i'm not suggesting that those two OF's would solve all our problems. But remember with this staff we need to score 10 runs a game to feel comfortable that we'll win the game. As bad as we feel about our pitching just remember there is one thats worse. Imagine being a Rangers fan. Their team ERA has been over 5.00 for the last 6 yrs.

Dobbs not having a good day. Given the weather and the opponent, I hope Burrell gets an AB today.

I want to pose a question that may or may not have been discussed over the years. Do you think that Gillick is using statistical analysis when signing or trying to trade for players? Statistical analysis seems to be a favorite trend here on Beerleaguer and I must admit that having been a player I always looked at someone's swing and their play in the field with the only focus I had on stats was batting average and ERA. We all know Gillick's propensity towards signing guys that he had before but with the growing trend to looking beyond "tools," I wonder whether he is willing to look outside the box for players.

Ok peasants I am here to set the story straight. I am older than dirt and haven't really done anything in baseball since that '93 Toronto team. My hands are tied and can only do what Mr. Amaro allows me to do. I am told by Mr. Monty that we are to cut all costs as much as possible and put out a team that will frustrate you people just enough that you'll continue to buy tickets, purchase merchandise, etc. Essentially you are all our puppets because you should be thankful that we have been able to win over 80 games in 5 of the past 6 years. Only 4 other teams can lay claim to that, Yankees, RedSox, Braves, A's. Oh yeah they have all either gone to the playoffs or won a world series in that time however you should not expect that of us because we are a smaller market than them. Our scouting department is superb, in fact we have just recently found out that there are actually talented players in Japan but we prefer to stick to the Australian guys. We love the accent of the Aussies. The one thing you should all look forward to that the Eagles open camp in about 6 weeks.

No coincidence there - Rangers have 3 ex-Phillie starters with a combined ERA around 7.00 the last time I looked.

Tray is right on - Kendrick has been a pleasant surprise, but one of the two former All Star pitchers (Myers or Garcia) has to be back in this rotation before the end of July or they are doomed.

I know I always get attacked on this website when I commend Rowand's offensive capabilities, but this offense is as good as you'd want offensively. Rowand brings the hits, Victorino the clutch, and all 3 the speed. The ideal addition to this team would be a Miguel Cabrera at 3rd for additional power. Bourn also deserves some Rookie of the Year consideration if he keeps it up.

The P.G. impersonator forgot that Gillick was the guy who put together the winningest team of all time - the 2001 Seattle Mariners with 116 wins - yeah, he's done nothing since '93 - try following baseball sometime!

Verde are you smoke the same weed as me? Bourn for ROY. Do realize Mr. Amaro and Mr. Monty approved Uncle Cholly's request to start him for the 1st time about 10 days ago? That lowdown, do nothing ex GM, drafted him so he's nothing special. We all know that my personal secretary and poolboy, Mr. Werth will be back starting over Bourn once healthy again. God I love his athletic build and that hot little goatte thing on his chin. Thats why I drafted him in Baltimore

Minor nitpick, but what buildings are FOX zooming in on when they cut in from commercial? Why not the Liberty Place towers?

You are the same guy who chants E-A-G-L-E-S at Phillies games every year while we are still in the playoff hunt - please go follow your football team and leave us Phillies fans alone....

I'm sure the Mets will blow it open once I post this comment, but right now it looks like we're going to look back at this series as losses to peg on the offense. Pitching hasn't been great, but we need to score more runs.

Pretty sure training camp opens in 4 weeks not 6.

Yes I am the man behind the man, behind the man, behind the man who put together that bfabulous Mariners team that set the record of regular season wins but lost in the playoffs to far less talented team. Oh yeah and I'm so great that my contract was not renewed as GM two seasons following that spectacular '01 season. Rumors have it that this is cause I refused to learn Japanese and play Nintendo with those dump owners in Seattle.

We all know that my personal secretary and poolboy, Mr. Werth will be inserted into the starting lineup once healthy. I believe his mysterious injury may be associated with his draining of my pool last week. God I love how athletically gifted the guy is & that goatee thing on his chin is hott!

Verde -Bourn your ROY candidate just K'd for the 3rd time. I'm guessing his average will be approaching .250 after todays game.

You've got to pick a side - do you want Werth or Bourn starting?

I'm sorry here's a topic you understand better, McNabb or Kolb?

Thanks for that correction SJ Mike. Once the Eagles are back we will be comfortable and no pressure will be on so we can tempt you with another close but no cigars season. Hopefully, I will get Mr. Monty another season over over 80 wins. Thats our #1 goal right now. We want to be in the same category as the Braves, A's, Red Sox, and Yankees for something. By the way Mr. Mesa doesnt have a 32 yr old son as previouly mentioned in our website. We have corrected that incorrect statement because we know that cannot be correct since Mr. Mesa is only 40 yrs old.

Werth over Bourn anyday especially after mowing my lawn in those tits shirts. I do not follow the Eagles since my time is primarily spent scouting players and traveling to Seattle and Toronto. We do like when the football team is playing cause we then have no pressure to win. And that damn 610 station will leave us alone. They are always picking on us.b

Time to work on the filtering program Jason.

Silver lining: Howard's put the bat on the ball every AB. Unfortunately, he's about alone in the dept.

Well, it was a nice illusion that sweeping the Mets in their ballpark was a turning point which propelled the Phillies into contention. All that stands in the way of total negation is Kyle Kendrick.

Okay, so Geary's gone but Durbin's still here? If Happ stays in the rotation, what happens to Durbin? It's been head-spinning: Condrey, Hernandez, and Geary are not on the team, but Sanches is. So the bullpen is: Mesa, Alfonseca, Madson, Romero, Zagurski, Sanches...Durbin. Holy sub-mediocrity. Phils have used 24 pitchers already this year. The club record is 27.

It's just a good thing the Savior of the Franchise is here, uh...well...

There really is no hope for this team. Now and in the future. The management doesn't really care, but puts on an illusion they do. The minors are a mess, and I mean bad. Mike Arbuckle is freakin' really clueless in his 15 years running the minors and he's still here looking for a GM job when his drafts have produced zero playoff appearances. This guy should have been fired years ago. Here's an example.. our 2nd round draft pick this year, Travis Mattair, has 30 at-bats with 0 walks and 10 Ks. I'll make the call right now - that's 1/2 million wasted. There are plenty of guys on this site that can do a much better job. Oh well, another summer ruined.

I sense some negativity here today. C'mon, guys, let's turn those frowns upside down!

Happ and Kendrick have real potential, Hamels will only get better and there's several young pitchers in A ball (Outman, Carrasco, Drabek) who look pretty good so far. Yes, outside of Cardenas and possibly D'Arby Myers (sorry P O'Neil and SirAlden, facts are facts) there are no position players, but Rollins, Howard, Uts, Bourn and Ruiz are a nice young core. All they need are upgrades in RF, LF and 3B and we could be looking at the best Phillies team ever in 2010 (30th anniversary of the championship!)

Phillies have sent Happ back to Ottawa and recalled Anderson Garcia.

I was more impressed with Happ than Durbin, but can't get too upset about this move because Happ is still trying to build up his stamina after being on the DL. His 3 prior minor league starts went no further than 4 IP and Cholly wsa pushing it mby making him pitch the 5th today.

Garcia is a 26-year-old failed prospect now with his 4th organization. He's got a pretty good fastabll and nothing else at all, which makes him pretty hittable. He is not a major league pitcher, nor will he be.

Umm I think the Pat Gillick impersonator was refering to Werth's T-Shirts and not what he typed guy was hillarious with some of the stuff he posted...right on P. Gillick impersonator!

Clout, you are not really serious about waiting until 2010 are you??? I mean are we still three years away from being three years away again?

I agre that Happ is probably better off in the minors, but it makes you wonder how long of leash they intend for Durbin. He is a joke. Looks like Jeff Weaver and pitches worse.

Anderson Garcia?

I heard rumors some here called me a cabana boy? Ok, fess up you scoundral!

It's not news when the Phillies add a non-major leaguer to their staff. It used to be a weekly event. Now it's a daily event. All the name changes are supposed to create an illusion of progress.

Phils drop three straight to the hated Mets and clout gets optimistic! Where's Dr. Kervorkian's number. We need help.

We start the season with six starters and now three are on the DL, two of whom were penciled in at or near the top of the rotation. That's why we are skiing downhill fast at the Gillick Ski Resort.

I believe clout's 'optimism' the way I believe Ruben Amaro's medical updates.

Any chance he was auditioning for the huge Phillie PR staff? Almost gave me goosebumps reading about those prospects in A ball.

Pelfrey pitching tomorrow as Perez pushed back (injured back). Perhaps we can salvage 1 tomorrow.

Remember after the Myers injury they downplayed it and now look were are 2 months later and the guy is still grasping at his arm after throwing a few pitches.

Not sure if anyone remembers but Eskin had a dr on a few days after the injury who said he knows a few people inside the phils that say they are covering this up like the CIA. I think Amaro went on Sportsnet and said it was just typical WIP negative talk and had no validity.

No way he pitches again this year if we continue downhill this way. You know what guys if you are so worried about WIP and the negative calls & press you get then friggin' go out and WIN! All we want is a winner...anyone get the impression that there are too many people involved in the chain of command for quick decisions to be made:
-7 Unnamed owners
-D. Green

I wonder if anyone could check and see if any other teams in MLB have this many owners who are have to agree on something before anything gets done.

"Mesa, Alfonseca, Madson, Romero, Zagurski, Sanches...Durbin" This might just be the worst bullpen the Phils have had at any point in the season during the past 25 years.

So I went back and did a quick check on the bullpen stats of the Phils' teams of the past 25 years. The only bullpen that might had less talent over the past 25 years was the 2000 team.

That team had Jeff Brantley as closer (classic pickup who was completely washed up by the time he became a Phil), primary setup Wayne Gomes (still one of my least favorite Phils of recent memory), and a revolving door of flotsam. Plus, that the last year of the glorious reign of Francona's tenure as manager (possibly the worst Phils manager of the past 25 years with the exception of John Felske).

Even remember the awful teams of the late 80s/early 90s and late 90s always having at least one or two decent options in the pen. There is

People may laugh at this post but I am glad the Phils have signed Mesa and Romero. This bullpen has been so awful of late that these two guys are actually upgrades over the likes of Rosario or Condrey.

From my blog this morning: Philadelphia has used 24 pitchers this season, three fewer than the club record of 27, which was set in 2002. That number will soon jump to 25 as Anderson Garcia was called up from Ottawa following yesterday's game as J.A. Happ was quickly jettisoned after his lackluster performance. Gas-Can Geary was sent down prior to the game to make room for Happ, and J.D. Durbin remains in Phillies pinstripes for the time being where he'll be "helping" out in the bullpen. Here's the stellar list of the 24 pitchers appearing for the 2007 version of the Philadelphia Phillies: (in order of innings pitched) Cole Hamels, Jamie Moyer, Adam Eaton, Jon Lieber, Freddy Garcia, Ryan Madson, Geoff Geary, Brett Myers, Antonio Alfonseca, Francisco Rosario, Clay Condrey, Kyle Kendrick, Yoel Hernandez, Mike Zagurski, Jose Mesa, Tom Gordon, Brian Sanches, J.D. Durbin, Zach Segovia, J.A. Happ, Matt Smith, Fabio Castro, Joe Bisenius, and J.C. Romero. All of that equals a 4.92 era, which is ranked 28th out of 30 MLB teams and dead last in the NL. Thanks again Patty G, you really know how to assemble a championship caliber team. I can't wait to see what other crap we call up from the minors or pick up from other teams happy to get rid of them. This is going to be a long season...

I guess they would have risked losing Durbin to some other team by trying to pass him through waivers, which at this stage of the season, is likely to happen. I didn't know how the rule would apply earlier and still don't understand how Condrey was allowed to be outrighted. So they'll go with a four-man rotation in the meantime, let Geary work it out in Ottawa, and call up Rosario clone Garcia.

This bullpen in horrid.

Here's someone who we had at Ottawa to start the year but let him go: 2.82 era, 1.12 whip, 22.1 ip, 21k, .205 avg against. He'd look good in our bullpen. His name is Justin Miller and he pitches for the Florida Marlins. Once again, great talent evaluator that Pat Gillick is. This isn't quite on the level of allowing Justin Germano to slip away, but it's yet another blown call on his behalf.

Carson: The biggest single flaw with this team has been personnel judgment when it comes to supporting cast.

They've done a pretty good job of identifying, signing and developing their core of young stars (Uts, Rollins, Howard, Hamels, Ruiz) but have been absolutely awful in picking up lesser players who could be useful in a supporting role. These are players that could've been acquired in trades for Padilla, Abreu, Bell, Polanco etc. instead of the crap that actually was acquired. Some of this is luck, of course, but a review of this team's trades over the past 3 years shows a critical lack of judgment or evaluation skills.

RSB and curt, I was really being sincere in noting some things to be optimisitic about going forward. This blog tends to be either "The Phillies will win the Series!" as it was last August, or "All is doomed!" when they hit a cold streak. Just as I cautioned (and was ridiculed) last August that the Phils truly weren't a .600 team, that they were playing well against extremely weak oppsoition, you can't dismiss them now.

That said, I'm no Pollyanna. As I've written repeatedly, if the Phillies don't acquire at least one quality pitcher, sooner rather than later, they will NOT make the playoffs. My confidence in Pat Gillick (whom SirAlden calls the "savior of the franchise") is quite low. He had 2 missions last off-season: Get a starting pitcher to replace Wolf and get a stud reliever to replace Gordon, whom everyone on the planet knew would be hurt this year. He accomplished the first part (although he got the wrong guy) but failed miserably in the second. This failure has cost the team at least 10 wins.

Phils better take advantage against Pelfrey - it is a break they didn't get Perez.

Did Perez hurt his back with the ball on the rope routine?

The unfortunate thing is the mets are a bunch a show-boaters with their onfield celebrations. They are so dramatic too. They shoud be the DraMets.

It'd be nice to absolutely destroy them today with a couple beanballs to boot.

Another former Phil bullpenner having a great yr is Ryan Franklin.. 1.42 ERA .97 WHIP I realize he sucked here, but look what a REAL pitching coach can do. The only holdovers from this staff to go forward in 2008 are: Hamels,Moyer, Zagursky,and Myers (AS A STARTER). After that, everyone outta da pool! Bring in rule 5's, free agents, minor league FA's and some guys from Camac Street for all I care.. Major overhaul necessary. then sign Torii Hunter or gamble on Andruw Jones. just one man's solution

I hate in when a player showboats. That makes it all the worse when an entire team showboats (ie. the Mets). We started this series 3 out and will probably end it 7 back...ouch!

Out of all the free agent centerfielders I'd choose Ichiro. Imagine him batting leadoff for us. Our offense would be even more potent and we may just be able to outscore the opposition regularly and overcome our crappy pitching. Ichiro is only a dream though, can't see him ever choosing Philly.

ROB D - Franklin refused to happily work the bullpen here - the Phils wanted him there, but he was still under the illusion he could be a starter at that point in his life. There may be a lot to blame on Dubee, but not Franklin.

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