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Thursday, June 21, 2007


The Phillies are hitting .248 vs. LHP, have a worse record vs. LHP than RHP and Werth and Helms have failed miserably. Think we should've kept Jason Michaels (.859 OPS vs. LHP)? Who'd Gillick get for him again?

Been thinking about the "Tom Gordon ahead of Myers in rehab" quote from yesterday's paper.
Myers said earlier that would need ~ one month to return to the rotation.
Could that be the plan - especially with Lieber injured?

One other thought - Roward absolutely has to be traded by the deadline - he is the only player with value that the team can afford to let go. Personally, I would trade Rollins, but there's no real replacement for him like their is for Rowand. In a blockbuster deal with another contender, the Phils could get some sort of outfielder or 3B in return, in addition to some pitching help.

I'm also of the opinion that if you are going to deal Rowand, you have to insist that Burrell moves in the same deal. That's why I think any deal with Rowand must involve contenders (including 3-team trades) since, as we all know, he has an expiring contract. MOTO that I am, I think that one of the main reasons that Burrell vetoed the trade to Baltimore last summer was the fact that they had no hope of making the playoffs. I think Burrell would be less likely to veto a trade to Oakland, Seattle, even Colorado - teams that are still in the playoff hunt.

The real shame is that he probably could have kept Michaels and send them his buddy Burrell (.155 BA vs. LHP).

Saw this in the FoxSports article about Joe Girardi and the Baltimore Orioles: "Girardi, though, holds significant leverage: He could turn down the Orioles and wait for a better opportunity. The Yankees, Cardinals, White Sox, Astros and Phillies are among the high-profile clubs that could seek new managers by October." It's nice to know that the national media thinks the Phillies are a better opportunity.

Germano lost for the first time. He's now 5-1. With Lieber hurt, Germano sure would've looked good wearing the Phillies pinstripes.

Crazy J -- Rowand is on his salary drive, and everyone knows it. He'll never hit this well again, and he's only an average fielder. He might bring us 1 pretty good prospect, or one average player. Still, we probably have to do it.

Just finished reading the last thread. For once, Sir Alden wrote something that made sense in singling out a lot of our problems with our pitching coach Dubee. He recommends firing Dubee. For once, I agree with Sir Alden

Oh god, can we please not talk about J-Mike? He never got the respect he deserved when he was here, at least not from the front office. What a stupid, stupid trade.

The original rumors called for us to get either Rhodes or Rafael Betancourt from the Tribe in exchange for Michaels. Somehow we ended up with Rhodes. Betancourt, on the other hand, has been totally dominant this year.

Woulda shoulda coulda.

We ended up with Rhodes because the Phillies are suckers for old relievers on their last legs. Just another reason the other GMs chuckle about this franchise.

J-Mike would still look great in Phils pinstripes. But if we were going to trade him we should have at least gotten Betancourt in exchange instead of the turd-torpedo Art Rhodes.

*This is from the end of last thread:

Donut-Eater strains his ankle...hello DL.

We give up 10 runs to the opposition yet again. (9th time this season)

Wes Helms totally sucks!

Pat Burrell is washed up by age 30.

Ryan Howard's defense is piss-poor.

Our bullpen is horrendous.

Zagurski isn't everything we were hoping for, he's in over his head.

Yo-Yoel Hernandez has had some really bad outings lately.

Screw the Phillies!

Oh wait, "but we're only 2 games back of the Mets".

First up, I've been getting blasted on my "Is Howard the next Burrell comment", and deservedly so. But I do wanna say that it was frustrated sarcasm after he took a Burrell-like swing at a ball last night. I don't really think Howard is the next Burrell. Next, we have several players who are offering nothing to this team. Burrell, Barajas, Helms, and Werth are all completely worthless with absolutely no upside at all. They are all automatic outs who are weak defensively. What is the point of having them on the team? B/c we owe them money, and are desperate to get our moneys worth? At some point, when you are dealing with abject failure, you need to cut your losses.

Goodtimes: Couldn't agree more about cutting losses, which I think is realistic in the case of Barajas and Helms. Funny though that when you consider salaries, we may have gotten our best bang for the buck on Werth out of that group...

I don't know where the hate on Werth comes from. Do I think he's an All Star? No. But for a fourth outfielder I don't think he's as bad as this board sometimes makes him out to be. He's gotten a few clutch hits of the bench, has hit a couple homeruns, has a few RBI. I think his defense is more than adequate. He has an accurate arm and takes decent routes to the ball. For a seemingly small contract, what more do you want out of Werth? Give the guy a break. With the options on this team, he's my starting left fielder, hitting seventh.

The last comment, by the way, has nothig to do with anything specific on this particular thread, just commenting on a trend I've noticed over the past few months. Sort of random, but there it is.

Come on Carson, no complaints about Charlie and his staff?? Let's throw Gillick and Amaro onto the list too!! How bout Pat's only bullpen *cough* upgrade *cough* in Jose Mesa *hurl* now being used in hold situations?? And Nuni continuing to get waaaay too much playing time as one of our better player (Dobbs) continues to sit, even after he recently raked some left-handed pitching... Feel free to add these to the list! Haha!

werth as starting LF? let's try Bourn. he's got much, much higher ceiling.

Bilingsby: I also actually like Werth as a 4th / 5th outfielder. Not that he has been outstandingly good of late, but some of the uglier at-bats earlier this season (which seem to have made up people's minds on him) might have been atrtibutable to a slow comeback from his injury.

I'd like to see more of Bourn too. I really think Charlie forgets about him.

Werth is the least of this team's problems. The bullpen flat out sucks when you are now turning to Jose Mesa in hold situations! Anyone have any info on Matt Smith? Is it time to replace Zagurski with him? Big Z needs some time in AAA, as does Yoel, who will probably be sent down when Myers or Gordon returns. At this point I wouldn't even mind seeing John Ennis or Kane Davis getting a shot to see if they can get hitters out at the big league level. Hell, if San Diego can land a catcher at this point in the season, we should be able to do something with Rowand to upgrade some of our weaknesses! Or is Gillick back in Seattle, out fishing on Puget Sound this week...

Anyone know if Savery is pitching for Rice tonight? With no Phils game, it would be nice to see our #1 pick in action.

Dobbs should start a lot more. Let him be the starting third basemen, and if you want some defense there that particular day give him the start in LF. Let him prove he can't hit as good as he has been hitting.

Free Chris Coste!

Rowand has a reputation around the league as being a good fielder, which probably comes from his aggressiveness/willingness to hit the wall. His bat was decent 2 years ago, as well. This type of season may be his peak, however, which may be a good reason to get something for him, now. Put Victorino in CF and Bourne in RF. I wouldn't mind seeing them take a chance on a Willy Mo Pena type. That guy would hit some HRs at CBP.

I would like to see Bourn get some playing time, as well. But, I think Bourn is more suited to play CF. If you're going to start someone in left other than Burrell, I would think you should replace him with someone with a little more pop in his bat than Bourn has to offer (not that Werth has a ton of HRs, but he has more HR potential than I would think Bourn has). As BRupe eluded to earlier, I think Werth is a good player who needs some time to get back into the swing of things. I know it's late-June aleady, but he hasn't exactly been getting quality time.

I don't have an answer for this mess, just a couple of thoughts. I do agree with many, that Burrell is not coming around. As hard as I rooted for him during his career, I think the magic is long gone and playing him everyday is hurting this ballclub. Time to move on to Plan B, or whatever plan we're on now. Perhaps Plan Q.

If we move Rowand who hits fifth?

Face it, if this team has ANY hope of making the playoffs, Rowand has to be here. No one else has or is going to step up.

Sure we have other guys who could play CF, but we've really come to depend on his bat this year.

If this team has any hope of making the playoffs, they need to move Rowand, especially while he is playing over his head (to get more in return). His stock has never been higher. And if Rowand is moved, why can't Dobbs hit fifth?

SS Rollins
RF Victorino
2B Utley
1B Howard
3B Dobbs
LF Burrell/Werth
C Ruiz
CF Bourn
P Any Pitcher

Not to get all nit-picky, but in the last thread DavThom and Carson slagged Werth for "striking out one-third of the time," citing his 22 Ks in 82 ABs. That actually works out to 26.8%. It doesn't make him any better, but it is well below his career rate.

You've answered your own question. If we don't have anyone else capable of hitting 5th, we don't have nearly enough hitters to have any hope of making the playoffs.

Maybe even Rollins could be dropped down to 5th, to break up the string of lefties, if a left-handed pitcher is starting.

There is still hope for Girardi (well maybe so more for the Yankees - although they may turn to Mattingly first). He has turned down the Orioles job!

Jon -- 3-4-5 lefties? Great...on the 1 day a month we'd see a righty.

Good for Girardi. As an ex-catcher, he won't pick the Phils, either. One look at Barajas and Girardi will head for the hills, Forest Hills, that is.

JSR: Thanks for the update. I was growing increasingly concerned that this team was accidentally winning its way out of contention for Girardi, who I think might give us the best chance to win looking forward.

"A final note on the White Sox: Mark Gonzales reports that scouts from the Dodgers, Mets, Phillies, Orioles, and Devil Rays were in attendance at the White Sox-Marlins game last night. Those scouts could've been looking at a number of Sox players. Or perhaps Marlins starter Dontrelle Willis."

What do you mean, Barjas was a star last night?!?

/not really serious.

Barajas actually has been somewhat productive against the lefties. Everything is relative, of course.

One of the NY teams already has a uni set aside for Dontrelle.

Barajas actually has been somewhat productive against the lefties. Everything is relative, of course.

One of the NY teams already has a uni set aside for Dontrelle.

Milton Bradley was just designated for assignment by the A's.
Can we swap him for Burrell.
He's definitely not a step down, when you consider that he won't move in left field like he has just taken a crap in his pants.

Maybe we should set aside a uni for Girardi.

thats the dumbest reason i've ever heard of why someone would turning down a manager job. because one of the catchers suck? i honestly hope you were trying to be funny. i will also make pretend someone didn't just say swap Burrell with Milton Bradley. Charlie, Pat which one is it, get off the computer and get back to work.

Pass on Milton Bradley. I don't know what he did to get himself designated for assignment, but he is one of the games' bad guys. He would never adapt to an east coast atmosphere.

Forget Girardi. The Phillies hire only yes men, in case you've all forgotten.

Forget trading Rowand. After Utley, he's been the MVP of this team. You seriously want an OF of Victorino, Bourn, and LF du jour? You only create another hole while you fill another.

If Lieber can't go for a few weeks, the Phillies will have no choice but to go with a four-man rotation. But even though there are virtually no options with which to replace him, how tragic would it really be if he couldn't go for awhile? Take away that fluke shutout of KC and his numbers are hideous. So much for the rotation being the strength of this team. To think of it, the only strengths on the entire team are the 1-5 hitters and the no. 1 starting pitcher. That's six. When Myers comes back, it's seven. I would count players like Ruiz, Dobbs, Moyer, and Eaton as average. That leaves over half the roster as certified weaknesses, and we are *stuck* with them. You can plot and hope for trades all you want, but Gillick's got nowhere to turn. I just can't see this mix being good enough to get anywhere. It would be one thing if they played the game consistently and properly and didn't hurt themselves with mistakes. But they do. That's my state of the Phillies.

Lieber says he'll be fine.

As a part time bench/bat guy, I think Dobbs is relatively solid.

Gary Sheffield's a jackass, and he's working in Detroit.
Burrell's obviously never going to perform here - take a chance on someone that might (Bradley).

Question. What relievers who were traded in the last 3 years would you have traded for? What players were needed to land that reliever, and who would be equal value on the Phillies to the players traded?

Here is one:

Mike Gonzales P (Pitt) for Adam LaRoche 1B (Atl). Aaron Rowand (Phil) – now Rowand may be a stretch, last year LaRoche hit 30+ homeruns and was a good fielder at 1B. Rowand last year was in the middle of a second sub par hitting year but played a more challenging defensive position.

Are there any others? Not sure but, I don’t think so. So what does this mean? It means when you post we should have made a trade and there were none available then you are talking out of your hat.

I was a big Burrell fan at one time. I feel now hes not helping the team at all. I'm sure we can not trade him at this time, so I believe he should be cast as a pinchhitter. we start Werth in lieu of him and maybe at times Bourn. I definitely give Dobbs the starting 3rd base job and see if he can hit lefties, if not then back to Helms and if he can't deliver the season will be over anyway.

crazy jon -

you want to trade rollins? how about we thrw in hamels as well, maybewe could get a decent setup man then.

good lord. you're totally bonkers.

as for Rowand, it seems like we've solved the 5 hole hitter problem, and now you want to trade him?

SirAlden: Urbina, for Polanco. RSB's and clout's objections notwithstanding, that was a good trade at the time. In retrospect, yes, Urbina's out of baseball and Polanco decided to re-sign with the Tigers. Nobody could have predicted Urbina would be out of baseball. Polanco wouldn't have even been a Phillie that year except for pure dumb luck on our part. He wasn't coming back here. We got a quality reliever, a former all-star, whom we desperately needed that year to shore up the giant Worrell pool (sorry) that was the bullpen.

Well, I think the consensus is "we need someone in here to help this team, but not trade anyone for him".

I'd try to make something happen for Bradley. I know he's got a bad clubhouse reputation, but unless there was some severe incident preceding his DFAing, why not take a shot? it's not like having a buddy-buddy atmosphere is really helping all that much.

trading Burrell for him doesn't make much sense though, for either side really. right now all you can do is hold on to him and hope he either starts playing better or gets you a draft pick after 2008.

good one laramie. Urbina was a solid reliever, obviously a little nuts.

I say start the fire sale. We're, what, 15 games out of first place right now? We certainly don't want to keep pressing with the team we have now because for the last month and a half, they've been stinking up the joint. At the rate they've been winning recently, there's no reason to expect they'll even sniff playoff contention come September.

to me, trading rowand isn't an option if his only replacements are bourn and werth....that would surely give us the most punchless OF in baseball (and, additionally, an enormous blackhole at the bottom of the lineup). you need find a viable replacement for rowand before you trade him.

Burrell leaves after 08 so we are stuck with him thru 08 and hes really not a help so I would release him and hope he gets picked up and I believe it would offset some of the money we owe him. Hes really no help (other than the walks) Bradley is a free agent after this year.

I totally agree with RSB (and I can't believe how many times I've said that this season). There is no way under the sun this management would hire an independent guy like Joe Girardi, even if he worked for free.

Also agree on Bradley. Not only a bad guy in the clubhouse, he's contsantly injured and not a great asset on offense. He's never hit 20 HRs. Besides, this team's problem is pitching, not hitting.

interesting fact: Bradley and Chase Utley appear to have attended the same high school (Long Beach Poly). born the same year, so they should've known each other.

laramie & o'neil: Urbina was nothing special for the Phils, but each of you misses the point: The reason Polanco wasn't coming back wasn't that he didn't want to. It was because the Phillies didn't want him. They preferred David Bell. If you two agree with that choice, well, 'nuff said.

fljerry - I know when Burrell's contract is up, that's what I meant. releasing him is monumentally stupid. no team will claim him, and then we'll be responsible for his full salary, minus the major league minimum that somebody signs him for once he clears waivers. as bad as he is, we are better off with him on our bench than paying him $27M to play for someone else this year and next.

Assuming if we had been using Werth and Bourn and Rowand was not on our team we would be saying can't we trade for Rowand? Rowand is a good major league outfielder and I bet most teams would love to have him.
What can we get for him in a trade? What do we need that we can get. Can't get a decent starter and why trade a starting center fielder for a fair relief pitcher which is all we could get for him. I say resign him, hes our starting center fielder just like we have Rollins, Utley, Howard. We then work around these 4 non-tradeables. (and Hamels naturally)

The Burrell haters, who are mostly the same geniuses who said the Abreu trade was a good one, miss one important fact: The Phillies have no one decent to replace him. NO ONE. Unless you see something in Werth I can't. As for Bourn, an outfield of Bourn, Rowand & Victorino will be dead last in offense among all 30 teams. If you can trade Burrell for legitimate talent, do it. But the idea of addition by subtraction is why the Phillies missed the playoffs by 2 games last year when they could've won them.

Burrell has not been doing anything lately (other than walks) defense is not great, so why are you stating he should be still out there. Hope its not because of all the money he is receiving? I like to see Werth play alittle more in lieu of Burrell. The guy has not done anything for last few years and hes actually hurting the team by having others sit while hes playing.

But he was close to "something special" when the traded for him. You're such a revisionist, it's rediculous. You don't have hindsight when you make a deal. And look, i'm not a David Bell fan, but A) he was under contract B)Was a stead 3B and C)the year before they traded him, Bell hit .291. Not like he was coming off of several bad seasons. The Phils (of course) needed bullpen help and had Utley to play 2b.

Yes, I'd like to have Polonco now, but the trade at the time, made some sense.

supposed to read:

C)the year before they traded Polanco, Bell was a .291 3b.

clout: so, what was your proposed bullpen solution for the 2nd half of the '05 season? The Phils' plan was to use Madson in the setup role. If you agree with that choice, well, 'nuff said.

I was neutral on the Abreu trade. The Phils had given up that year to make playoffs and were getting rid of money and players not going to be around. He and Burrell were the trade baits but naturally Burrell also wanted to go to Yankees or a team that had a chance for pennant so he could not be traded. I can't see why you are not defending the trade - and actually this is giving Victorino a chance to play everyday which he wouldn't if Abreu was still here. Abreu had his time here and was a great hitter. He is not a great hitter now.

Abreu's hitting .325/.462/.518 over the last month. yes, he had a terrible slump at the beginning of the year, but it's about time to stop pretending he forgot how to hit.

Exactly Fljerry. AT THE TIME OF THE TRADE, the Phillies had basically thrown in the towel and traded Abreu. I would like to have gotten something better back, of course, but the big part of the deal was the Yanks paying his full salary. Sure, with the way things turned out, maybe having Abreu would've been what put them over the top, but that would've punched a hole in the space time continuum.

And of course, Burrell was all but dealt in the offseason(deadline?) to the O's, but refused.

and if they didn't trade him last year, does anyone think he would be a member of this team THIS year?

5 for his last 25 with 0rbi, for those looking for an update.

Lets see if Abreu continues his hitting. I remember Burrell in beginning of season was hitting pretty good and look what hes doing now.

O'Neil & fljerry: Well it's nice to know at least two Beerleaguers support Pat Gillick's personnel moves.

Polanco by the way had played quite a bit of thirdbase before he was traded and would've had no problem staying there as an everyday player. Again, you think Bell was the better player at the time of the trade. I disagreed then, I disagree now.

The Abreu trade speaks for itself. The Phillies missed the playoffs by two games and could've used his bat and Lidle's arm down the stretch. So was Pat Gillick. As for hindsight, go back and look at what I (and Jason) wrote on the day of the Abreu trade. You were wrong then and you're wrong now.

The problem with Rowand is that he's not going to re-sign here - he will go to Chicago or the west coast because he wants to play in those places. He may even take less money for this.
It's the same situation as Randy Wolf from last year. The Phillies offered him more money than the Dodgers, but he wanted to play in LA.
You can't legitimately say "don't trade Rowand, re-sign him instead" because it's not going to happen.
All's I'm saying is that they should use him as leverage while his value's high. That's why I suggested pairing him up with Burrell in a trade to another contender. You might be able to fill another need (SP, RP, 3B or LF) without necessarily creating another hole in your lineup.
With our luck, he probably gets hurt sometime in the next few weeks and this becomes a moot point.


1st- Polanco move was Ed Wade.
2-Now, it's wrong to agree with any move made by Gillick and we're all supposed to bash any move made. That's hilarious.
3-I didn't say I thought Bell was better. He had been doing ok prior to the trade and I don't think there was a market for him as much as there was a market for a Polanco type who could play a few different places.
C-An Urbina/Wagner tandem was great, on paper.
Duck- Don't hide behind what Jason wrote back then. I can care less. Again, at the time of the trade, the Phillies were sellers. They ended up turning things around, that's great.

O'Neil: OK, you want to ignore Jason, fine. Just look at what I wrote on the day of the trade. Time has shown who was right and who was wrong. Has nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing with a Gillick move. Has to do with smart moves and stupid moves.

Your thinking on Bell/Polanco is bizarre to say the least. You trade a guy because "there's a market for him." Huh??? There's always going to be a market for a better player and less of a market for crappy one.

Polanco was also alternating at second with Utley. Sure we can look back at that trade and the Abreu trade and say I wish we had them back. At the time we needed a relief pitcher and remember Urbina made the Marlins world champs. Nobody at that time complained. Abreu we could of gotten more for but like O'neil says we were getting rid of money and gave up as far as making playoffs. Funny how guys can go look back and say what a lousy trade after the fact. I bet St louis was saying the samething after they traded Steve Carlton for Rick Wise. By the way most in Philly were against the Wise-Carlton trade.

CJ/MOTO, I think you have a point on Rowand (seriously, no insults or mocking here!). at the beginning of the season, I was completely convinced that he would never return to Philly. however, I'm not so sure anymore. he seems to genuinely like a lot of the players on our team, and the fans in Philadelphia really do love him. (plus, I've seen rumors that Atlanta is very interested in him, and they're not exactly a West Coast team.)

I think we may be at a slight disadvantage compared to the White Sox, but I really don't think we're out of the running, as we would've been if his contract ended last season.

Have you heard anything on trying to resign him. I haven't. If they do not intend then hes definitely trade bait. I hope they try and he accepts - hes one of the top center fielders who will be eligible for free agency this coming year.

I don't think there's anything official, but it is very, very early.

It is not a foregone conclusion that Rowand will return to Chicago. That team is falling apart at the seams and it's likely to undergo a heavy makeover in the off-season. Rowand seems to like it in Philly, as well, and if they have an open checkbook and a better chance to win, I see no reason why they can't re-sign him.

We need a solid reliever and Detroit wanted Polanco. Last I checked, you can't trade someone if nobody wants that player. We kept Bell, got who we wanted, the Tigers got who they wanted. The market worked. Not hard to figure out.

We look like a bunch of scab-pickers. Every time the team loses a few we go right back to the same sore spots that never heal. If we're going to bitch about lousy trades, couldn't we at least have some fun and list the Phillies 10 all-time worst trades or something?

Or, instead, let's put the past week into some perspective: we played two of the AL"s strongest teams and saw how big the gap is between an NL wild-card contender and an AL playoff team. It ain't pretty, that's for sure, but we don't have to beat out teams like that to make the playoffs, just the other flawed mediocrities in our own, weaker league.

But while this team could, with plenty of luck, make the playoffs, it's obvious it won't get far should it do so. The starting pitching just isn't strong enough to win several short series in a row against good teams, and the bullpen gets shredded by decent offensive teams.

That's just the way it is, folks. If you need a superior team to enjoy watching baseball, Phillies fandom will leave you forever frustrated. The last time the Phillies were truly among the top 3 teams in the game was 1981, before the strike. We ought to be used to it by now.

That's a good point RSB.

The one thing I never understood about the Abreu trade, why did we have to throw in Lidle?

Clout: Would you be willing to say the Abreu trade made some logical sense IF you thought, as Gillick did at the time, that the Phillies had no chance at the post season in 2006 or possibly even 2007? The trade was bad, but perhaps you can admit their was some logic (albeit flawed) behind the move.

Yes, in retrospect the Phillies did have a chance and trading Abreu and Lidle MAY have cost them those few games.

- Greg

It was all money

Well said Alby.

For us to win a series (short) we need Myers back in rotation. Hopefully Hamels and Myers go the distance and pray for the other games. But at least these 2 have a good chance to win if we can continue hitting.

Do you realize Marlon Byrd is hitting 364 and Endy Chavez is having a hellava year prior to getting hurt. We now have neither and have not heard anyone complaining on this trade and release.

I can't believe we're still arguing Abreau or Polanco, etc.

Who the f#$% cares? It's water under the bridge. It happened. Let it go.

The question that seems to be raised at this point is that we should deal Rowand because his value is high?

Why is that exactly? Is it because we've given up on the season?

Since our 3-10 start, we're winning at a .576 clip over the last 59 games. If we continue to win at that rate, we're an 89 win team. With a 59 game stretch, I don't want to hear any bullsh!t about level of competition. It's more than a fair enough sample. And much of that sample is without both Gordon and Myers.

Get them healthy and our bullpen is better. It's reasonable to think we could hit more than 89 wins this year and that certainly puts us in playoff contention.

Now, trade Rowand and how does that help our team this year? Aren't we playing for the now? Is this a group of Phillies fans that have given up on a team 2 games out of the division lead?

This bit about Utley from a Stark column is great: "He'll take your heart out to win a game"

• One NL executive says he can't figure out why teams keep intentionally walking Ryan Howard when the Phillies player they should be walking is Chase Utley -- to pitch to Howard: "At least Howard has holes -- a lot of holes -- especially this year. In a big spot, Utley fights you. He fights off tough pitches. He's hard to strike out. He'll take your heart out to win a game. Give me enough players like that, and I'll win a championship. I guarantee you."

I like Rowand a lot. But, if he doesn't want to sign here I believe we have to trade him at trade deadline. I rather have players than a draft choice between 1st and 2nd round. I can't believe he would be the difference in making the playoffs that he can't be traded. Who knows what Bourn will do if he plays everyday, also what do we get for Rowand in a trade?

trade rowand. jettison burrell. an everyday OF of vic/bourn/werth is playoffs caliber for sure!


So Bourn in place of Rowand in our batting order helps us make the playoffs?

I am not for trading Rowand - I just do not want to see us get nuttin for him if he leaves

I see your Abreu went o-4 with one KO - lets see what he ends season with

Our Next Manager

John Russell
Born: January 5, 1961 in Oklahoma City, OK
Resides: Odessa, TX

Managerial Highlights:

2006 Manager, Scranton/Wilkes-Barre Red Barons (Class Triple-A, International League) 84-58: IL North Champions
2002 Manager, Edmonton Trappers (Class Triple-A, Pacific Coast League) 81-59: PCL Champions
2001 Manager, Edmonton Trappers (Class Triple-A, Pacific Coast League) 60-83
2000 Manager, New Britain Rock Cats (Class Double-A, Eastern League) 51-91
1999 Manager, New Britain Rock Cats (Class Double-A, Eastern League) 59-82
1998 Manager, New Britain Rock Cats (Class Double-A, Eastern League) 83-59: Northern Division Champions
1997 Manager, Fort Myers Miracle (Class A Advanced, Florida State League) 81-58
1996 Manager, Fort Myers Miracle (Class A Advanced, Florida State League) 79-58
1995 Manager, Elizabethtown Twins (Class A, Appalacian League) 33-31
Awards and Achievements:
2006 International League Manager of the Year
2002 Minor League Manager of the Year
2002 Baseball America "Best Managerial Prospect"
1998 Baseball America Eastern League "Top Managerial Prospect"

We Need A New Pitching Coach

Someone Assassinate the owners one by one until the sell please.

David Montgomery General Partner
Claire S. Betz Limited Partners
Alexander K. Buck
J. Mahlon Buck, Jr.
William C. Buck
John S. Middleton
Bill Giles

you sure showed me, jerry. one game is definitely more predictive than the last four weeks.

Eskin keeps saying that he believes the Phillies ownership is going to get a big offer for the team within the next year. Moreover, they'll consider selling b/c the fans dislike them so much. I pray he's right on this one.

I have a feeling that Sir Alden is right about Russell. He might be good down the line but this team needs an experienced guy who can fire a team up.

fljerry, p o'neil: "Nobody at that time complained."

Not true. You could look it up.

CJ: I agree with you that this team should play for the now. Which makes me ask you this question: Do you this the Phillies have a playoff-caliber bullpen? If so, please explain. Thanks.

SirAlden: Aren't the Buck brothers those rich guys in "Trading Places"?

OH. NO.:

Manager Charlie Manuel will look for more opportunities to use RHP Jose Mesa, who retired Cleveland pinch-hitter Casey Blake with two on in the eighth inning to preserve a one-run lead Tuesday night. ``I like Mesa's stuff,'' Manuel said. ``I'm going to put him in some tight spots.''

Jeltz, thanks!!. Now, will you please remove the fork with which I just stabbed myself in the neck.

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EST. 2005

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