History repeating itself for undermanned Phillies

Last night’s loss capped two months of sub-.500 baseball, exposed shortcomings against left-handed pitching and revealed widespread one-dimensionality. Bob Ford of the Inquirer and Marcus Hayes of the Daily News picked up on it, too.

No need to rewrite what’s already been written, or to ponder the first two months of the season. They've unfolded the same exact way as every April and May since starting this site. In the words of Bob Ford, "the dividing line between winning and losing is always frighteningly narrow." The reason why is the dividing line between their best and worst players is so severe, and the manager isn’t making the best of what he has, either.

Imagine what it’s like having a bullpen that’s up to snuff. Need help? Take a look at the division leaders. They all have good ones, as do many of the teams nipping at their heels: San Diego, Detroit, Minnesota. Even teams like Seattle have stayed in the hunt thanks in large to back-end relief. We’re talking teams with two, maybe three pitchers who can slam the door consistently. That’s what you need to win. At present, the Phils have nobody who even comes close.

It’s the main reason the Phillies are playing losing baseball, but not he only reason. As Hayes reports, they’re 3-10 in one-run games. That’s almost entirely on the bullpen, which was not addressed in the offseason. The rest is a grab bag of poor managing and lapses in execution.

At bat, how many regulars shouldn’t be regulars? On any given night, two, three, sometimes four: Greg Dobbs, Wes Helms, Abraham Nunez. You can make arguments for or against Shane Victorino, and increasingly, Pat Burrell. They aren’t complete players, at least at their regular positions. In late innings, and because they’re carrying 12 pitchers, they constantly run out of players.

The team is falling just under the 85-88 win track from the last two seasons, and we know where those roads led. This season, the competition appears stronger, and the team, sinking with all the dead weight, may actually be weaker.

What are they going to do about this?

Comments

[JZ]

Last one from me for awhile.

From Hayes' column: "The good thing is," said Rollins, "we do have 4 months."

Good thing for what? For who?

[Tray]

What will they do? If I had to guess, they'll make a trade for a couple of big-name relievers whose reputations exceed their talent. Toronto, Texas, Washington, St. Louis, Cincinatti, and a couple other teams will be selling at the deadline.

[ae]

just so long as Benitez doesn't end up here.

[Lake Fred]

I'm so depressed it took me until now to even open up Beerleaguer. I have yet to even look at the boxscore. We sweep the Braves on the road, then get Snaked at home by the dumb D-backs. Cholly, Dubee and their friends need to go.

Utley needs to pull a Kobe Bryant and demand to be traded unless Cholly gets replaced by Girardi! I'm sick.

[D. Patrone]

Gillick will do what he's done so far --- Nothing! Except have a fire sale to shed salary. Get it through your heads. There is no reason to even talk about it. I said it a month ago. They're a .500 team if that. They have a stupid manager, a stupid 3b coach and they play stupid baseball. Nothing's gonna change.

[Mike H.]

Inside the numbers: Padres, 52. Dodgers, 52. Brewers, 59. Mets, 68. Phillies, 72. Those are the number of walks by relief pitchers. There's your one-run game outcomes right there. What are they going to do about it? Given that they are not going to trade for relief, the answer looks like "not much."

[John]

When Pat Gillick came to the Phils, I was concerned that, given his track record, our minor league teams would be in ruins by the time he left. I was at least comforted by the fact that he'd be ruining those teams to improve the big club.

But, he hasn't even done that. And that's what's truly worrisome about this team -- they're not very good, and there doesn't seem to be much in the pipeline that's going to help.

[ae]

very true John. and what's even worse: we'll be wasting the prime years of the best second baseman and shortstop - and possibly the best first baseman - ever to play for this franchise.

[Alby]

If Howard isn't the franchise's best first baseman already, who is?

[phanatics brother]

ae good point "we'll be wasting the prime years of the best second baseman and shortstop - and possibly the best first baseman - ever to play for this franchise."

depression is really setting in now...

[Steve Jeltz]

Ricky Jordan

[MG]

This team is flawed (as just about every other team in the NL) but there is more talent on this team than a sub .500 record going into June.

I am tired of hearing everyone make excuses for Manuel. Yeah, the bullpen on this team is awful but the bench has actually not been as terrible as advertised. In fact, the Phils' pinch hitters have been among the league leaders and this team is also among the league leaders in RISP.

It is unfortunate but I don't think the Phils will fire Manuel unless they go into a dramatic tailspin. As long as the Phils muddle along at .500, Manuel will have a job.

Don't think firing Manuel will necessarily make a huge impact. In fact, it might not have any impact at all but it is worth a shot. Why not take a gamble on a season that is rapidly going nowhere?

[ae]

Alby, he's certainly got the potential, but Kruk was very good for four years, Dolph Camilli and Don Hurst put up good (albeit inflated) numbers in the 1930s, and Fred Luderus was - for the deadball era - a pretty good 1B. Howard has the potential to blow them all out of the water, natch; all I'm saying is that until he's had more than one full season it's a little premature.

[Alby]

OK, I can go with those choices. My comment was prompted by the fact that nobody leaped immediately to mind. It's mind-boggling that those are the best choices out there for a 130-year-old franchise. How many 1B are in the Hall of Fame? I know it's a lot, and except for some year-or-two rentals, nobody in a Phillies uniform is anywhere near that level.

[J.R. King]

Good point, MG. There is no down side to firing Manual. This team has nothing to lose.

In fact, waiting too long to change managers can hurt a team for years. Ed Wade wanted to replace Bowa with Manual mid-season. Even if the change didn't push them to the playoffs, the Phils still would have seen Manual's inability to make in-game decisions in the National League. Maybe that half season would have prevented us from being saddled with him for three years.

If Manual is fired, we will undoubtedly get stuck with Jimy Williams - at least for the remainder of the year. Why not start now? Why not see what the guy can do with this team? That way, at least we have some idea when we start planning our run as the Team To Beat In 2008.

[J.R. King]

p.s. Anyone notice how Burrell came out and was uncharacteristically aggressive last night? I think he reads Beerleaguer.

[bay_area_phan]

Doesn't Pete Rose count as a Phillies first baseman?

[ae]

I didn't include Rose because only his '79 season here was really all that good. '80 and '81 wouldn't be bad for an outfielder, but are relatively weak for a 1B, and in '82 and '83 he was not very good at all.

[Steve Jeltz]

b_a_p

It appears to be a multi-layered question. If the question is who had the best career of any player to ever appear in a game as a Phillies 1B, the answer might be Pete Rose.

If the question is who had the best single season as a Phillies 1B, the answer might be Howard.

If the question is who had the best career as a Phillies 1B based on an arbitrary minimum # of games played or ABs as a Phillies 1B, the answer may be one of the names ae mentioned.

However, in all 3 scenarios I stand by original response: Sir Ricky of Jordan.

[joe]

and thome?

[Billy Mac]

JW, You can also add Cleveland and Boston as divsion leaders who addressed their bullpen this winter.

[Lake Fred]

JRK said it all when he wrote: "There is no down side to firing Manual."

[TJ]

If they fired Manuel mid-season and the team continued to flounder, then that would put the burden squarely on Pat Gillick's shoulders - and this is a front office that doesn't expose itself like that. I wouldn't count on a mid-season firing unless things started to go really badly.

[MG]

Another thing I don't get is how so many Phils' fans have supposedly become Burrell apologists this season. I am glad that Burrell is trying hard but that is really irrevelant.

Besides getting on base via walks, Burrell has been pretty abysmal this season. Burrell's struggles against LHP go a long way to explaining the Phils' 5-13 record against LHP.

Plus, Burrell is one of the poorest fielding LFs in the game. Besides being near the bottom of the league in ZR, the Phils have a -11 on balls hit in the air according to Dewey's +/- system. I am willing to bet that Burrell accounts for a decent portion of that -11 number.

If the Phils were paying or expecting Burrell to be a part-time outfielder, that it would be fine. Unfortunately, Burrell is producing like a part-time outfielder who is being paid at an All-Star level.

[bay_area_phan]

Fair answers. Just wanted to make sure we weren't forgetting to consider him. He did actually have 2 very good seasons for the Phillies, and a third that wasn't bad. And he surely has to get extra credit for leading the Phillies to their only World Series title.

[John]

From today's Jayson Stark column:

"The Phillies seem to have concluded they'll have no choice but to at least dangle center fielder Aaron Rowand before the trading deadline if they're still looking for late-inning bullpen upgrades. But one NL scout who is a longtime Rowand admirer says that would be a big mistake. "You're talking about a guy who has a Philadelphia-type mentality," the scout said. "And that's hard to find. Plus, this guy is a big force in that clubhouse, and you have to be really careful about trading a player like that. Sometimes, the intangibles that guy offers under the surface don't become apparent until after he's gone." By the way, Rowand's tangibles aren't too shabby, either. He's sixth among all NL outfielders in OPS. And he hasn't gone two straight games without a hit all season."

I don't think is news to anyone, of course. But all of this talk got me to thinking of a disastrous situation where the Phils to continue to hover around .500 and the wild card, and decide to hold onto Rowand for their "stretch run" (hahaha), only to see him walk at the end of the year.

Seems like just the right storyline for the Phils.

[Alby]

BAP and Joe, I'd put Rose and Thome in the year-or-two rental category. They ain't gonna wear Phillies hats if they get into Cooperstown.

[Alby]

John: I'd be happy to keep Rowand on board for the rest of the season. He'll be at least a type B free agent, which I think means (correct me if I'm wrong, all you GM types) we would get a 2nd=round draft pick if he leaves as a free agent.

[RSB]

What are they going to do about it? Troy Percival to the rescue!

No one came up with Johnny Kruk for best all-time Phils' 1B?

I wish Ford wrote Phillies-related columns more often. He's always right on the money, and he writes better than pretty much anyone else in the Philly sports media.

[J.R. King]

Who is a Burrell apologist? One game being aggressive doesn't make up for two months of trying not to make an out.

[ae]

I actually forgot about Thome, although the fact that he only had 2 good seasons here kind of hurts him.

[ae]

RSB, like I said: "Kruk was very good for four years."

[GM-Carson]

So how long until Manuel is fired?

My prediction, he sticks the entire season although the Phils only hover around .500. Why is this acceptable? Because the Phils brass is okay with mediocrity, because afterall it is better than losing right?

[RSB]

I'd bet a Dickie Thon rookie card that Jayson Stark has been interviewing the same damn scout for 30 years.

I just don't see the Phillies trading Rowand this season, no matter what, even if they believe they ought to, even if he's just an okay player and nothing more. If they did come up with a better outfielder and could move Victorino to center, I don't think anyone would be sobbing on the streets that Rowand had to go. But that would have to come via free agency, because they basically have no trading chips in the entire organization.

[RSB]

Hm, I guess that sounds mildly contradictory...if Rowand himself is considered the lone trading chip. But if Rowand isn't going to land anyone better than himself...why bother, really, unless you're *convinced* he won't re-sign...you're just creating another hole when he leaves. It's an untenable situation. The Phillies can't improve because they have no ability to make themselves better through trades. All they can do is dump.

[J. Weitzel]

The Phillies can't trade Rowand because he has a Philadelphia-type mentality?

[ae]

I agree with you RSB, although it makes sense to trade Rowand if A) a contender finds itself in desperate need of a centerfielder - maybe Boston, with the uninspiring Crisp and Pena platoon - and B) Phils management doesn't think Rowand can keep up his nearly .900 OPS pace, in which case they're selling high and you actually *do* land something better than Rowand in a trade.

[RSB]

JW, good question. Ask Bill Giles. Baseball sense and marketing sense do not go hand in hand for this franchise.

[MG]

That "Philadelphia-mentality" comment was pretty foolish. I don't know about Rowand's impact on the clubhouse but the "Philadelphia-mentality" necessary for athletes who play in Philly one of the most constantly over hyped and ridiculous story lines.

[MG]

What people want in Philly is a winner. They will tolerate almost any antics (see Terrell Owens) as long as the team is winning.

[Alby]

The Philadelphia-type mentality might not matter in winning games, but claiming it's overhyped doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The '93 team wouldn't be revered if it didn't. It certainly makes a difference in marketing terms, which are pretty likely to be taken into account by this bunch.

MG, I'd use TO as evidence that we won't put up with much. He logged what, 7 years of his nonsense in SF? We were sick of it after 1.

[JB]

What are the chances Rowand would remotely want to stay in Philly and quite frankly why would he.

Chicago will sign him and he would probably take less money to go there than stay in the City of Brotherly Love.

ALBY - I would much rather take a decent reliever or fill a need via trade if possible as his value is pretty high right now than take my chances on him leaving and getting a draft pick. BUT either way hopefully we get something worthwhile in return.

I do like his attitude (old school, blue collar which I think what is meant by Philadelphia-mentality) as a ballplayer but not completely sold on the skills but he is a solid CFer which we have lacked for a long time.

[Tony]

It's like a morgue in here. Relax everyone. We'll be fine!

[Johnny Goodtimes]

Why should the Phillies worry about getting better? They keep getting great crowds and are making money with a .500 team, so why rock the boat? If anyone in this organization cared about winning, they would have dropped Charlie years ago. If anyone cared about winning, they would have learned from the Leyland mistake and hired a guy who actually manages baseball and doesn't just blow smoke up players asses and reward them for playing terribly. But Joe Girardi will go to some other team that actually cares about winning and that team will improve drastically. And we'll continue plodding forward with stupid, fundamental-free baseball and hover at .500 for years to come. But as long as the seats are full, why would anyone in management care?

[Tony]

From Will Carroll at Baseball Prospectus:

Troy Percival is expected to sign with a team by the start of next week. Multiple sources tell me that the Phillies are in the early lead

[J.R. King]

I like Rowand's hustle. I do. And I think he has a great impact in the clubhouse. But you can't worry about chemistry when the team is playing .500 baseball.

[JB]

The reason the Phillies have the early lead is that they guaranteed him a bobble-head day and will sponsor his son's Little League team next year.

Bonuses for not blowing his arm out include him picking out his own fan base nickname, free signed autograph book Pouring Six Beers at a Time by Bill Giles, and one time free "guest speaker" appearance by none other than Monty himself to be used between Oct 1st but before the World Series ends since he will not be busy.

[Alby]

Hmm...fan group names...

Well, Troy's Boys is a little too obvious, not to mention a little, er, gay.

How about Percival's Mercifuls? They could all dress as nuns...

[John]

While I laughed at RSB's comment -- and think there's some truth in it -- regarding Stark's sources, the ensuing point about "Philadelphia mentality" does have relevance. That's not to say that it's more important than many other talents, stats and trends when it comes to judging a player, but certain players have faltered here because they've let the atmosphere get to their heads.

[Tray]

Oh, RSB, I don't think Bob Ford can write well. Like the duck as it glides across the water... come on Bob.

[DJH]

"I agree with you RSB, although it makes sense to trade Rowand if ... B) Phils management doesn't think Rowand can keep up his nearly .900 OPS pace"

If they think he can, that'd be the most damning indictment of the management I've heard yet.

[DJH]

"The Philadelphia-type mentality might not matter in winning games, but claiming it's overhyped doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The '93 team wouldn't be revered if it didn't."

Yeah, I can't imagine anyone would even remember going to the World Series if they hadn't been such lovable rogues.

[Mike H.]

Percival and Ryan Madson, though they are a few years apart, went to the same high school in southern California. Might help. You never know...

[dajafi]

If the Phils deal Rowand, they should do it for multiple pieces that help them in 2008 and beyond. Trading him for a Fuentes-type reliever is just too risky. At least when Wade got his season-killing relievers (Wendell/Cook, Williams), he didn't give up value for that dubious privilege.

The other thing I'd really like to know is if the decision-makers really believe that Myers, Gordon or both will be back and effective this year. If they're both 100 percent, I'm not sure you really need additional relief help.

[Billy Mac]

dajafi, Gordon has been 100 % for about 2 months in the past 1.5 years. In answer to the question of what you would get in terms of free agent compensation for Rowand (assuming he is a type B free agent)-- you would get a sandwich pick after round 1.

[longwood]

If they trade Rowand, do it right and trade Lieber, Garcia, and any other piece excepting the big four (Howard, Rollins, Utley, Hammels) that gets you back pieces. I am sick and tired of pretending they might eek into the playoffs then "all bets are off!" 2007 is not the year, and trying to make it the year just makes it harder in 2008.

[ae]

yeah DJH, obviously I don't think Rowand is a .900 OPS outfielder either. but Gillick would have to convince other GMs that he actually is.

[strange]

Off topic, but related to both baseball and Philadelphia:

Did anybody see the bit on ESPN where Jayson Stark explains his thoughts on whether A-Rod cheated with that bush-league shout he made last night? Well, without getting into A-Rod's actions, did you notice the background behind Stark? Looked like the Philadelphia skyline, but from Camden. If I'm not mistaken, that was the Delaware river, with I-95 and then Old City and the skyscrapers of Center City as seen from the east.

Can anyone confirm this? And if so, what's Stark doing in Camden, NJ?

BTW, the video clip is available on ESPN's MLB home page right now.

[strange]

Well, after doing the most preliminary research, I learned Stark used to write for our very own Inky - so he probably still lives in the area.

I guess this outs me as a (relative) newcomer to Philly, huh? I moved here 5 years ago, but I think Stark had jumped to ESPN by then, so I had no idea. Apologies for asking a silly question.

[davthom73]

Chris Coste just hit a 3-run home run in the boittom of the 4th to bring the R Phillies back 3-2, from a 2-0 deficit. Coste is 2 for 2 in the game, and his BA -- small sample or no -- is .381. Coste went into the game with a .682 slg. %, and has thrown out all three baserunners who had attempted to steal on him, since he came to the R Phillies last weekend.

scoreboard/live box score link:

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=milb&t=g_box&gid=2007_05_31_bowaax_reaaax_1

free live audio on Milb.com:

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/multimedia/audio.jsp

[bay_area_phan]

Thank you for the inning-by-inning updates on your son, Mrs. Coste.

In all seriousness, Davthom, you are pretty much preaching to the choir here. I think the vast majority of us agree with you that Coste should be on the major league roster & that signing Barajas was unnecessary at best, stupid at worst. The minute-by-minute updates are amusing, but they are hardly necessary to convince an audience that doesn't really need a whole lot of convincing.

[davthom73]

bay_area-phan -- I understand -- but with no Phillies game tonight, I thought some people might like to follow the R Phillies game.

[clout]

I sense an interesting dichotomy developing on Beerleaguer.
Some say, 'why go through the motions, this team can't make the playoffs' and want to dump the FAs like Rowand, Lieber & Garcia for whatever we can get.
Others say, 'wait we did that last year and then fell just short because of the dump. Don't make the same mistake twice.'

Honestly, I'm not sure where I come down on this argument. I will say this, if the Phils decide to rebuild they won't contend for the next 3-4 years. What that means for the core of star players, I don't know. But it will take that long at least to rebuild the farm system and have young potential stars ready to help the big team. After enjoying 3 years of contention, can the fans endure 3 or 4 years of losing?

[bay_area_phan]

I'm just being facetions, davthom. Like I said, I wholeheartedly agree with your basic point, as, I think, do most of the others on this board. The decision to sign Barajas & demote Coste is not the worst one Gillick has ever made & it's certainly not the main reason for the Phillies' problems this year. But the move does sort of stand out for its sheer defiance of all that is rational. More so than any other move of the Pat Gillick era, this one epitomizes his "style over substance" method of talent evaluation.

[Steve Jeltz]

clout: I think it's still too early to decide if they are buyers or sellers at the deadline. But if they do decide to be sellers, it brings up a lot of interesting questions.

Obviously the organization needs more depth with pitching and in the outfield. If the consensus is the team (for the next few years) is set at 1B, 2B, SS, and , to a lesser extent, C, the most interesting question is what their plan is at 3B.

I assume next year we're going to get a combination of Helms/Dobbs/? at 3B, but the real decision the team has to make is if they really see Costanzo as the opening day 3B in 2009. And that may be a decision they need to make in the next two months.

If they really believe in Costanzo (and decide to be sellers), I'd say trade Lieber/Rowand/Garcia for pitchers and OFs. If they decide they are buyers, do they include Costanzo in a package to get bullpen help? Just to be clear, I don't think he has alot of value individually, but packaged with another prospect could return some value.

They might just wait until the offseason and trade for someone like Chad Tracy and make Helms/Dobbs exclusively bench players. I don't know what they will do or what they should do, but the team's long term plans at 3B may have a big effect on what they do in the next 2 months.

[RSB]

I think there's virtually no way the Phillies will opt to rebuild. For the forseeable future, expect attempts to skate by with what they have, complimented by the hopes that young pitchers like Kyle Drabek will eventually join the 'core'. I also would expect them to move Myers back to the rotation next year. It is easier (I would think) to find a competent closer than a younger, top-of-the-rotation starter on the free-agent market. Until the farm system improves, the Phillies have little choice to but to go the way they're going now. The idea was that they'd bring in some 'savvy' GM to hopefully tie the loose ends together, but that plan hasn't worked out. If they tried to dump players and go with youth - well, there is no youth. I believe that the *best* we can probably hope for in the next few years is 80-win seasons. So settle in and get used to this, if you aren't already...really, it's easier if you just see it for what it is and stop dreaming they can make the playoffs.

[The Reverend]

I'm sorry RSB but I'll always dream they make the playoffs. It's the only way I can go into any season. But I'm told I'm a glutton for punishment.

[Cholly4life]

The Marlins have aquired Benitez from SF they now have no chance to win the wildcard even.

[The Iron Pig]

Time for another rant about Phillies ownership…

Johnny Goodtimes hit the nail on the head. You see we all care about frivolous things like wins and losses. Phillies management sees things differently. They care about dollars and cents. When the seats are full, they win. It is as pure and simple as that. Here I must have missed the day they taught baseball in marketing class. We might have just gotten swept by Arizona, but the fact that there were almost 102,909 fans in attendance made it a winning series. They will have close to 175,000 – 180,000 this weekend. Take a look at how they are marketing the team right now. They have a commercial where the biggest stars aren’t Utley, Howard, and Hamels – its food. “Come on out and have a good time. You will miss the fact that we don’t play sound, fundamental baseball because you will be too busy standing in line for a dollar dog!!” So, you can forget about rebuilding (Prospects…we’re talking about prospects!! Who wants to see prospects? We can’t put a [insert prospect’s name here] on a collector’s tin or bobble head doll).

[Tray]

Why are the Marlins trading for Benitez anyway?

[kells]

Daily News Live today's brought up a sickening fact. To win 95 games the Phills need to be around 30 games over .500 the rest of the season. The Mets are on a path to win 100 & the West will likely produce the wildcard(The D-Back's showed us why this week). Each year i spend 3 hrs a night watching this team & get suckered into believing they have a shot at the postseason. The reality is the Phills are a .500 team. AGAIN.
Jodie Mac on 950 AM had Marcus Hayes(Daily News beat writer) on the other day. Hayes stated it was a fact that Rowand is & will always be a better center fielder than Shane Victorino. Jodie Mac completely disagreed. Victorino belongs in CF & I'm not sure what games Hayes is watching.
I agree w/ most posters that the Phills should trade Garcia/Rowand/Brajas in the immediate future. I'm always an optimist but watching this team make fundamental mistakes each night I was taught in Little leauge makes me sick. As Most Beerleauger readers-I'm biased & believe the Phills can make a run, but realistically our manager/front office/bullpen are overmatched & we have no shot of making the playoffs-I hope I'm wrong.
davthom73 I'm a huge fan of Coste & believe Gillick was a moron for sighning Barajas-but please stop posting about this guy every day. We all agree w/ you he should be up w/ the Phills. Gillick is a dinosour-he refuses to admit he was wrong. That $2.5 mill thet should have been used on a reliever. WE AGREE -EMAIL GILLICK
Instead of attempting to re-stock the weak farm system at the trade deadline the owners will most likely stop Gillick from making any trades of players who have a future bobble-head night. My guess is will be back 8 games on this date next year.
Comcast-Please buy this team.

[GM-Carson]

This weekend should be a boo-fest. Boo Bonds, and boo the Phillies. BOO!

[SJ-Mike]

Hayes also said that Rowand took better routes to balls and that Victorino didnt but used his superior speed to make up for it. My eyes disagree. Ive never been a fan of Hayes and this interview didnt change my mind.

[Tony]

Boo the Phillies? Why? They can turn this around. If Myers and Percival can come back and maybe Gordon who knows? Weirder things have happened.

[Tony]

The Giants traded Benitez and got a decent guy in Messenger. Why does Gillick and Amaro keep saying there is no market for relievers? Dopes.

[GM-Carson]

I'm all for signing Percival, but I honestly don't expect much from him. The man retired for crying out loud, just because he's coming back doesn't mean he's going to be good.

[Alby]

DavThom: I, for one, have no problem with you posting updates on Coste. Keep 'em coming.

[clout]

The Benitez-Messenger trade makes sense for reasons not immediately apparent. Benitez has been a disaster in SF, where he's been either hurt or bad for 2 years. Lately he's been poisoning the clubhouse, forcing the Giants to dump him. They're hoping Messenger, who's only 25 and an utter mediocrity, will someday develop command, the most common wish in baseball when it comes to young pitchers.

From the Marlins standpoint, they're getting a veteran closer who's owed $5 million, but they're only paying $333,000 of his salary. Their pitching staff has been decimated by injuries and they hope he can come close to his Marlins form of 2004. This allows them to move Gregg to setup and rely less on dreck

[Lake Fred]

I'm glad the Phils had an off night, so I did not have to watch College Girls Softball on ESPN to watch the crawl for the score, or poker on the deuce, or classic boxing, or the Astros blowout (they rarely give scores) on FSN. Instead I watched Lebron James' legendary performance last night.

I wish the Phils had a guy that could lift the team and score at will. We thought it was Howard. Some thought it was Abreu or Burrell.

[JB]

Any thoughts of how the Phillies would perform in the AL?

Obviously we would not have to worry about Cholly mis-managing the game and our team is probably built to be more successful with the DH (more one-dimensional specialists).

Boring day of not enought to comment about, sorry.

[Angus]

So is today the day for axeing bad free agent signings?

[J.R. King]

Today is the first day teams can trade free agent signings without getting the newly-signed player's approval. But I'm not holding my breath for Barajas to be dealt.

Even if another team would take him and pay him his salary, the Phils will not want to trade him because they worry it will prevent other free agents from wanting to sign with the team.

[Billy Mac]

Phils sign another Indy league pitcher.
Somerset Patriot Chris Rojas' signing was announced yesterday.
Rojas, a former Reading Philly in 2005, is expected to join Ottawa. Rojas is a 30 year old right hander.

http://www.oursportscentral.com/services/releases/?id=3479256

[davthom73]

Great article by Paul Hagen in this morning's Philadelphia Daily News, appearing under the headline, "Phillies bid farewell to arms."

The story begins, "Good pitching is hard to find. We know this is true because so many teams are searching for pitching help.
Still, here's a question: What three things do Randy Wolf, Ryan Franklin, Aaron Fultz, Justin Germano and Justin Miller have in common? Answer: All are off to strong starts. All were under contract to the Phillies within the last year but are now pitching for different teams. And all left with the Phils getting virtually nothing in return . . . . "

And the story ends, "Now, not all of these guys may maintain this level of effectiveness for the rest of the year. Every team makes an occasional miscalculation. And with the exception of Wolf, none of the decisions that preceded their departures seemed particularly momentous at the time. With good pitching so hard to find, though, shouldn't it be just a little easier when some of them are right under your nose?"

link:
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/20070601_Paul_Hagen___Phillies_bid_farewell_to_arms.html

[J.R. King]

davthom73: Keep posting about Coste or whatever you want. You were right before. You are still right now. And, to my knowledge, you always bring new and interesting data to the discussion.

[Dave Kingman]

I would much rather have Randy Wolf than Freddy Garcia plus they would still have Gio Gonzalez as their top rated minor league pitcher, he is 4-3 with 82 SOs in 59.2 innings for the White Sox AA team.

[J.R. King]

Even with Randy Wolf, I think Gillick would have traded for Garcia. He just wouldn't have signed Eaton.

[ae]

- Wolf was never going to resign here; he's a complete nonissue.
- Franklin was - for obvious reasons - not welcome here, and he actually pitched worse for Cincinnati than he did for us after we traded him. I would have a very hard time criticizing Gillick for not bringing him back.
- I looked up the old Fultz thread, and he was reportedly due to get $2M in arbitration, which would have been a tough contract to take considering his 1.5 WHIP last year. hindsight is 20/20 on this one, but it's hard to jump on Gillick for not resigning him. (also worth noting that Fultz is only on pace to pitch 38 innings, he's not a major cog in the Cleveland bullpen.)
- Miller has pitched all of 6 innings, so I think it's premature to call that a bad decision just yet.

losing Germano on waivers, on the other hand, was entirely inexcusable.

[Dave Kingman]

There is no way you trade your 2006 number one rated prospect, by Baseball America, for a pitcher whose fastball was in decline as early as the end of last season.

[ae]

and I would rather have Gio back, too.

[Ribbies]

We didn't get much for him (that's an understatement) but it does looks like the Phils dumped Abreu at the right time - http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/01/sports/01yankees.html.

[mm]

yeah, but it certainly got the fans excited enough they ignored the fact Gillick wasted the rest of the off-season mostly signing Of'ers and Relievers who won't amount to anythign ever for anyone.

[Dave Kingman]

If the Phillies had made an offer to Wolf during last season he may have signed but instead they waited for the off season and it cost them. I know some will say they were waiting to see how Wolf pitched before resigning him but they were willing to sign Eaton who had injury issues.

[SWB Brad]

Rheal Cormier retired today from Atlanta. I think he had no chance of going to the Braves. I think the Phillies should take a look at him if he still wants to pitch. He loved Philadelphia.

[clout]

ribbies: Just to refresh your memory the Phillies dumped Abreu last July, just before he went on to hit .330 with a .926 OPS for the remainder of the season. The proper time to dump him was last offseason, when they might have actually gotten something of value in return. Let the record show they also gave up Corey Lidle in that trade and finished 2 games out of the Wild Card because of thin starting pitching and soft offense in September.

[clout]

davthom: I don't think even Sir Alden would argue that the Phillies personnel decisions under Pat Gillick have been good. As has been posted here before, the list of every trade PG has made with the Phillies tells a very ugly story. The quality of the team's scouting also speaks for itself.

[Jobbers]

I to like to be kept up-to-date with whats happening in the minor leagues whether it is 'Coste news' or anyone else. It was on Beerleaguer that most of us first got to hear of Zagurski.

It was good of Davthorn to let us hear about Coste's HR last night but strangely no mention of Coste's throwing rror that led to I think 2 runs and defeat for Reading. Just imagine if Barajas had done that for the Phils and the uproar it would have caused on here.

[davthom73]

Jobbers -- My post on Coste's 3-run home run occurred *before* Coste's later throwing error on a bunt in front of home plate had even occurred -- So there was no attempt to mislead on my part.

Unlike the situation with Barajas, with the exception of Coste's throw last night which hit a baserunner going to first base in the back, Coste's catching defense has been excellent -- and with Reading, Coste has thrown out all three baseruners who have attempted to steal on him.