Game chat: Rising young arms duel in series finale

Ballyhooed pitching prospect Tim Lincecum makes his Major League debut tonight against Cole Hamels and the fledgling Phillies, who will be trying to avoid their second-straight series defeat.

Preview: Lincecum, a 22-year-old right-hander who snaps the ball to the plate in a hurry, is starting in place of Russ Ortiz and making his much-anticipated debut. In five outings at Triple-A Fresno, he was almost untouchable, going 4-0 while giving up only one run on 12 hits in 31 innings. Lincecum, who's been compared to Luis Tiant because of his unique delivery, can clock in close to 100 mph on his fastball to go with a knee-breaking curve ... Hamels (3-1, 3.54 ERA) knows a thing or two about being unhittable, but does it with a baffling change-up. The left-hander has won three of his last four starts and overcame a rough first inning Tuesday to earn the win ... The Phillies' bullpen has started to unravel again due to injury and ineffective pitching. Ryan Madson is the latest to land on the DL, following closer Tom Gordon, who landed on the DL just days before. Yesterday, the trio of Francisco Rosario, Fabio Castro and Yoel Hernandez - the bottom half of the Phillies bullpen - allowed five runs over two innings, sealing the Phillies' fate in a 9-4 loss. ... Used as a pinch hitter, Ryan Howard went 0-1 and is now hitting below the Mendoza Line (.198) ... The Phillies were held without a home run for the third time on this road trip ... Barry Bonds is out of tonight's lineup against the left-hander Hamels.

Regular posting resumes tomorrow when it isn't a sunny 65-degree weekend. Enjoy tonight's game and pitching showcase, broadcast nationally on ESPN.

Comments

[THe Dude]

Gammons said this Lincecum guy is really good and with Cain are the 1-2 punch of the future for the Giants.

One good note in an otherwise dreadful season so far for the phils and its minor league affiliates. Phillies are really encouraged with progress of Kyle Drabek. Where his 5 ERA with Lakewood may be a little deceiving. He looks like he matured a bit and the beating he took after being signed may have been a good thing for him. This is one of the things the PHils' minor league instructors were worried about Hamels was his ability to bounce back from a terrible start because he was never tested in the minors. Drabek has a great knee buckling curve ball that might tempt the Phils to fast track him if he progresses as quickly as many believe he may. It looks like while Hamels is poised to be the ace of the team for the next handful of years that Drabek might be the next in line.

On a bad note, the unbelievably underachieving Phils continue their long west coast road trip this week. Chances are they will come out of this trip no better than 6 games under .500. I would have to think that Stand Pat will be forced to make a few deals or fire his manager by the end of the end of the month if we are not back at .500.

[Mr J]

The Phils have a long history of failure against young phenoms making their major league debut. Hopefully, they will not follow form tonight. This team needs a win in the worst way. Too many Beerleague Posters are losing the faith. Remember boys, the MLB season is a series of streaks (winning, losing, hitting and slumps). In the end, the teams will meet the reasonable expectations. If you are surprised by the play of Helms, Eaton, or Barajas; then your expectations are not reasonable.

[SirAlden]

Oh yea of little faith!

I seem to remember a very nice match-up between a very young Brett Myers and a very young Mark Prior in Wrigley Park.

Let's put another one in the Win Column for the Phightin' Phils!

[John]

While ESPN must not be pleased about making this Bonds-less game the Sunday night game of the week, I'm looking forward to the pitching match-up.

[Parker]

How ticked off do you think that ESPN is in light of the decision by Bonds to sit this one out?

[Parker]

Vic, Holy crap!!

[John]

Welcome to the big leagues! Nice job by Shane. Now don't sit on this, fellas.

[Malcolm]

SHANE!!!

[bathtubhippo]

what a week for vic!

too bad he couldn't do this every week. (or that he had to pick the week my opponent in head-to-head fantasy has him on the roster, vic cost me SB and now HR too!)

[Malcolm]

I like saying that name, "Tim Lincecum."

[Parker]

bathtub, if he did this every week, he would be a sure fire Hall of Famer in 3 years.

[Malcolm]

Was Ryan Howard confused about Linecum's stuff? Cause Tim should be the least of his worries.

[Jon]

Nice start by Victorino and the Phils! This Lincecum guy reminds me of Pedro. Hopefully Hamels shuts the Giants down cause we may not get more than the two we just got.

[J. Weitzel]

Victorino's homer could be big now that that shadow is moving in ...

... and now a leadoff double by Winn.

[Parker]

Crap, this is just how it has to start.

[J. Weitzel]

Good thing Hamels was ready for that bunt because the first baseman sure wasn't.

Is Howard going to participate this season?

[Parker]

Good question Jason, I think he is worried about the $$$.

[Parker]

Anybody able to make out what Hamels just said right there?

[Parker]

AHHh, crap.

[John]

Nice works, Wes.

I don't want to come off as a No Hit Nunez supporter, but if Helms isn't providing what we brought him in for, Abe should be out there.

[curt]

A couple of more months of this, and people will be begging for Nunez.

[J. Weitzel]

That's a routine play Helms just missed. So far, his addition has been meaningless.

[Parker]

Helms looks eerily like David Bell, double chin and all. Except that Bell had a little better defense and more power.

[J. Weitzel]

Not Nunez, but I'd consider King. Why not? He can make that play.

[curt]

Because the Phillies are paying Helms & Nunez millions to play. Pick your poison.

[Parker]

Its like the Phillies consistently sign the same guy at 3B. Other than Rolen, who have the Phils had at 3B since Schmidt that has been any good? (Hollins, but he was not great, better than Bell, Nunez, or Helms, but not great).

[KidCarnivore]

Same old story.

[Parker]

Was that another stupid play by rowand??? How many times is that going to happen?

[phills101]

hamels not pitching like an ace anymore

[davthom73]

Today's Borowski watch -- Borowski got his 11th save in 12 save opportunities against Baltimore today -- 0 inherited runers scored, 0 runs.

[Malcolm]

Oh please, Hamels is pitching like an ace. The pitch to Visquel was his first bad pitch of the game. The Giants are punching balls out of the zone, and Helms and Rowand made bad plays (that's not unusual).

[Parker]

Defense not playing worth a damn behind him. Does Rowand not have any idea that the wind is blowing. This game should be tied, but they should not be leading. THe Nunez miss, was not as big a deal, I'm sure he was playing over after that first one got over him.

Why do I feel like the Phillies mascot should be "Eore" and not the Phanatic?

[KidCarnivore]

Maybe Rhino will pull a Clemens and join the team in a few weeks.

[Parker]

Not unless they give him Clemens money.

[bathtubhippo]

@j: "why not king" is more or less what i was saying yesterday. too many nunez starts, too little defense and too little power from helms. how bad would it be to have king (or coste, but that isn't going to happen at 3B) up here as a tryout for some starts? in fact, i'd rather have him up than a 12th pitcher that won't be used properly anyway...

@parker: you don't think vic has a spot reserved in the hall of fame?! what vic's week proves is that my fantasy team has the same "luck" as the phillies themselves. i jettison vic last week, my opponent picks him up and he goes off like crazy...

[THe Dude]

well thanks to a combination of Victorino's stupid play to turn a single into a double, Helm's piss poor attempt to field a routine grounder, and the PHil's inept ability to hit with runners in scoring position I can thankfully call this an early nite and get my grove on with the fiancee or even watch Desperite Housewives!!! Yeah...way to go PHils!!!

[Malcolm]

Shoot, I'd rather Utley swing at that high and tight pitch. He has a better chance with that than Howard with anything.

[Jon]

Howard!! It's about time!!

[Malcolm]

I think he's coming back!!! HA!

[John]

Hey, buddy, welcome back! Hope it's not a brief stay.

[Malcolm]

Hire Joe Morgan.

[Parker]

Ryan "Richie Sexton" Howard.

[THe Dude]

and then ryan has to routine my Housewives watching with a homerun to put us ahead...:(

[Malcolm]

Parker: If you're going to make a ridiculous comparison, at least spell the name right. It's SEXSON. He ain't a member of 311.

[Parker]

Thanks Malxtcum, I apperciyate it.

[Josh M]

Did someone just say that the game was good as over after two innings and a one-run deficit?

[curt]

Hmmmm Helms has just 9 rbis...probably not even keeping up with the runs he's giving away, not to mention the added wear and tear on our fragile pitching staff.

[Malcolm]

Heh - sounds like an anti-indigestion liquid.

[Jon]

Cole needs to shut the Giants down! 4 runs off Lincecum is HUGE!

[Parker]

And my point was that if he doesnt get things straight, he is going to hit 30 HR with a .215 average and 160 K's. At this point that is a generous estimate of his K's and average. I dont expect him to continue this, but if he does, then he is Richie SEXSON.

[joe]

lincecum looks like he needs more seasoning, honestly....

he'll be ok, his stuff is doc gooden-esque, but boy could he use a little longer to stew in the minors, and find something resembling control.

[Mike]

Dear John Miller and Joe Morgan,

Barry Bonds is not playing tonight.

P.S. Joe, you are a moron.

[Malcolm]

Nice response inning by Cole. Few pitches, quick work. I don't expect anything this inning, but they need to get another 2-3 runs off Giants pitching.

[Ribbies]

I'd like to sign onto that letter Mike.

Also the talk about Helms earlier led me to think that baseball should have a +/- stat like hockey, combining rbis and errors. Helms is probably about even.

[Jon]

Nice strong inning from Cole. Very quick. Very effective.

[Parker]

Joe, careful about using the word "stuff" around Gooden or the late 80's Mets. It could easily be misconstrued. I can hear Strawberry now: "Better stuff than Gooden, no way, nobody had as good of "stuff" as the "Doc."

[SJ Mike]

What time does the Joe Morgan Soapbox Hour get done? I dont watch alot of Sunday night baseball.

[KidCarnivore]

This would be a good time for Moyer to remind Cole how important it is to mow down the 7-8-9.

[KidCarnivore]

Uh, did anyone else see that Garcia may miss his start tomorrow because he RAN INTO A CART?

[Parker]

Bathtub, just read your comment on Vic and your fantasy team. I had him too, but I just picked him up for one game about a week ago. He went 3-3 and had 2 SB (Maybe it was one), and I let him go the next day after he went 0-3 or 0-4. I think he went about a week without a hit after that. And then he gets to SF.

[Whelkman]

Joe Morgan is the worst commentator in the industry. I think I speak for everybody when I say no one cares about his intimate relationship with Willie Mays. On ESPN the camera spends more time on Morgan than the field, while he repeatedly interrupts Jon Miller's play-by-plays.

Barry Bonds, good; Barry Bonds, bad--I don't care. I just don't want to hear about it anymore. Everyone made up their minds on the issue years ago.

[Parker]

Argh, I just saw a list with Hamels, Prior, Wood, Nomo, and some guy named Herbie on it. At least Doc Gooden was on that list.

[Malcolm]

Yikes. Hamels in the same list with Kerry Wood, Mark Prior, Hideo Nomo and to a lesser extent, Doc Gooden.

[Parker]

Who said Hamels wasn't pitching like an ace?

[Malcolm]

Yeah, this is how aces pitch. Aces don't necessarily mow down everything in sight. In fact, few pitchers in history have been able to mow everything down consistently and be relevant and strong year after year.

Hamels may get into some trouble (Giants are hitting balls into play), but he's getting out of it right now. That's how aces work.

[Ribbies]

I think Joe Morgan is just incredibly board with this game. It seems like he'd rather talk about anything else other than what's happening right in front of his face. Roger Clemen's travel schedule?!

[phils101]

o yea ill take 3 runs 5 inn from my ace everyday

[Parker]

Davethom, I think you waste entirely too much time focusing on players that "do not" play for the Phillies. I dont give a damn about what Borowski did today. He got 2 outs, big deal, who cares? Talk to me when he gets his ERA, WHIP, and BAA, lower than Jose Mesa's.

[Malcolm]

10th hit for Vic in SF. Hope he brings this back to the Vault.

Holy crap, AWESOME job by Vic making up for the stupid stroll off first.

[ZT]

nice break for Vic, keep givin me those steals buddy!

[Ribbies]

Vic's face said, "I can't believe that just worked."

[Parker]

Phils101, 2 of those runs were from errors, or at least one error, Rowands play in center was so bad that it should have been an error.

[Malcolm]

That is hilarious. He was like Jon Runyan there.

[Parker]

Vic is crafty, I don't think a lot of guys would have thought of that/get away with it.

[Malcolm]

Haha Vic is best friends with Aurillia/Durham now.

[ZT]

bases loaded, 1 out...

Double play?

Strike out, pop out?

Vic tries to steal home, ground out?

Place your bets!

[Parker]

Vic gets caught trying to steal and does a backflip over Molina right into home plate.

[Jon]

Nice to see the Phls get 5 off Lincecum. I thought for sure they were going to struggle with him. They need to split this series!

[joe]

Lincecum:

100 pithes, 53 for strikes.

1:1 K/BB Ratio.

Why was my assessment of him "idiotic"?

[Parker]

You know how the talking heads on ESPN are always saying that A-Rod is not "A Yankee" yet (Or at least not accepted by the fans). If that statement ever has any merit, I think Vic became a Phillie during this series. Helms has a bit of work to do.

[Mike]

Wes Helms is hitting the emptiest .290 I've seen in a while. And he's brutal in the field. I'd rather see the Ruiz/Nunez lineup, although it makes no sense whatsoever for Nunez to bat in front.

[joe]

Lincecum:

100 pithes, 53 for strikes.

1:1 K/BB Ratio.

Why was my assessment of him "idiotic"?

[madubbs]

Big at bat by Wes Helms...HUGE K ,

dear pat gillick, thanks for signing this bum

dear ed wade, thanks for trading polanco (who could be our everyday 3rd basemen)

[joe]

sorry for the double post.

[Malcolm]

Oh my GOD. What the hell, Rowand?!

[Parker]

May's is getting as much airtime as the game itself. Next time the Phils play at home, I want uninhibited commentary from Schmidt. Great Rowand, great.

[ZT]

Where do these Nunez supporters come from? It seems like they come out after he doesn't have a start and expect us to forget how much he absolutely blows at anything that involves hitting the ball. I'd take Helms' "empty" .290 over Nunez's .220 and the double plays that he hits into any day.

[Malcolm]

And whenever Rowand makes a bad play, Helms isn't far behind...

[joe]

helms is a total butcher.

[ZT]

Lord I apologize for supporting Wes Helms...

[The Other Kevin]

I can't remember having seen the Phillies play this poorly in the field in quite a while. These are minor-league mistakes they're making here. Please, oh please, don't waste another strong starting pitching performance.

[Jon]

Yo Wes, sometimes you need to stick that ball in your back pocket! Actually, I can think of a better place for it right about now...

[Ribbies]

Uh, what do you think now ZT?

6 Helms errors and counting. . .

[curt]

Bonehead Vic has a chance to end this season as Phillies MVP.

[Parker]

Helms is not a 3B. He may be the answer to the bench, but not a legit 3B. Is Costanzo even remotely ready for MLB time? He can't be much worse than Helms at the plate or on defense.

[Jon]

Well this is going to hell in a hurry...

[The Other Kevin]

Well, there you go. Another good start wasted by bone-headed mistakes. Tragic.

[Parker]

God, between extreme luck and bad defense, they have managed to completely screw Hamels effort.

[ZT]

Well despite Helms' 6 errors, I'd still rather have him over Nunez. Nunez just isn't a major leaguer.

[ZT]

Well despite Helms' 6 errors, I'd still rather have him over Nunez. Nunez just isn't a major leaguer.