Game chat: Phillies return home; Burrell sits again

Freddy Garcia and the Phils host Doug Davis and the Diamondbacks tonight in the first of three at Citizens Bank Park. Both teams are coming off sweeps and find themselves in similar spots in the standings.

Preview: This should be a good series and nice test to see if the Phils can keep it going at home against a quality opponent. Coming off their first sweep in Atlanta since 1995, the Phils have improved to two games over .500 and are wrapping up another sound May. The young Diamondbacks are also rolling, and barring some unforseen collapse, figure to be in the mix when Wild Card fever heats up ... Right-hander Freddy Garcia (1-3, 4.81 ERA) earned a no decision Wednesday in Florida after yielding three runs on five hits over six innings. Charitably, the veteran acquisition has been just OK for his new team and has yet to throw what most would consider a dominant start. Every now and then, Doug Davis (2-6, 3.57 ERA) is good for a gem, but it hasn't happened lately. Over his last three, he's 0-3 with a 5.75 ERA. He's been tough on the Phils, going 1-1 with a 3.38 ERA. He faced them earlier this season and limited them to two runs over six frames.

Jayson Werth gets the start in left field replacing Pat Burrell, who's sitting for a second straight game. Abraham Nunez returns to the lineup at third base against the left-hander Davis. [Live Boxscore]

Comments

[Crazy Jon]

Even without looking at the pitching matchups, I knew Garcia was pitching as soon as I saw the 2 spot in the top of the 1st.

[JB]

Nice to see Rollins turning it own again.

I just noticed he only has one error this year, has he ever won a Gold Glove?

[Terry]

typical night for Freddie

[JB]

Sorry - should have been turning it "on".

Too many Mem Day Beers......

[Terry]

I don't think so. He's been beat out by Omar Vizquel on popularity that past few years. I like Omar alot but Jimmie deserved it last year.

[bay_area_phan]

Words cannot even express how stupid it was to have Victorino sacrifice there.

They're down by 2 runs, with a hefty breeze blowing out, their worst pitcher on the mound, against a pitcher who kills them, and with a guy at the plate who is 10 for his last 18 . . . and Cholly plays for one run -- which of course they wind up not scoring. Incredible.

[Terry]

I think Victo was bunting for a base hit there.

[fljerry]

Actually Vic was probably on his own by bunting and if it wasn't hit so hard he would of beat it out - actually I would like to see more bunting from this team - they have lots of speed and bunting more brings the 3rd baseman in which gives us more space in grounders going down that way

[Mike H.]

All other things equal, nice defense tonight by Nunez.

[Terry]

What the hell was Rowand looking at?

[fljerry]

typical Nunez - well typical would of been a strikeout - does he ever hit the ball in the air - all his hits are grounders that have gotten through

[RSB]

Can't remember Burrell ever being benched against a left-hander. I assume Werth has good numbers against Davis or something. Burrell's never complained about being benched, as far as I can remember, but he must be getting pretty close. If he's healthy, he should have been in the lineup tonight. It's pretty punchless after Howard. Oh, and where the hell is Helms? Manuel wouldn't sit the guy down in April, and now he can't buy a start.

Was it the Diamondbacks' intent to make their uniforms exactly like the Astros?

[bay_area_phan]

Ok . . . I'm on the west coast & don't have the luxury of actually seeing the games. I watch on MLB.com's gameday, which put it down as a sacrifice. As soon as I posted the message, it occurred to me that maybe he was bunting for a hit, but it was too late to take the post back.

[Mike H.]

Davis is the kind of crafty left hander that gives the Phils fits at the plate. We're in for a long night...

[Terry]

Conor Jackson plays like Shoeless Joe against the Phils

[mark goldentyer]

y'all are way too negative; enjoy the Phils-
look out for Mad Dog out of the pen to be the new stopper.

[J. Weitzel]

Argh. Phils hitting into some tough luck.

[Mike H.]

I'll stop being negative when this team does three things: Stop making so many bone headed mistakes, Have the bullpen step up, and Go into Queens and sweep those bums. 6 1/2 games out of first after two months? What's there to enjoy about mediocrity?

[Ben Keeler]

Whats the O/U on games won by Garcia this year? I put it at 5. Tough to win when you rarely pitch well and you can barely make it into the 6th inning.

[curt]

Has Freddie hit 90 mph yet? Looks like his fastball is a thing of the past.

Incredible throw by Vic, again.

[J. Weitzel]

Some of the hardest-hit balls I've seen all season coming from the D-Backs off Garcia. Even Davis hit one hard to center. His breaking stuff is way off target. Just not impressed. Wish there was some starter waiting in the wings that could push him actually.

[fljerry]

As I previously said - he throws harder to first base than to hitter

[Crazy Jon]

Garcia's been a typical Phillies trade acquisition starting pitcher thus far = mediocre at best, just like Ashby and Millwood.

[fljerry]

Well Millwood at least threw a no hitter here - garcia is lucky to throw anything near a no hitter - actually lucky if he pitches 6 innings

[Crazy Jon]

Wasn't Millwood's NH in his 2nd or 3rd start of his Phillies' career?

[curt]

Phils are just what Davis needs. He hasn't won this month, hasn't pitched well. There was a point last fall when teams were bringing lefties up from the minors to pitch a game against the Phils. We still have the same weakness.

[JB]

Garcia is a rich man's Cory Lidle.

[RSB]

I said it before, but as the game goes along, it's confounding me more and more. Phillies are already weak against lefties - so why would you sit both Burrell and Helms?

Speaking of Millwood, note that Garcia has his old number 34. Two of the biggest dogs in recent Phillies history have something else in common.

[Ztuart]

Charlie should just make the best roster move he can: Move Victorino to the starting rotation and start him in the outfield on the days he doesn't pitch. We can then trade garcia for draft picks (because it's all he's worth). Victorino should probably be a pitcher with that arm anyways.

I say this only midly sarcastically.

[attytood will]

Not our night...a lot of bad breaks and a few bad pitches by Freddy.

You can't win 'em all in baseball, which is why that 4-11 still hurts.

[mark goldentyer]

Excuse me, but winning 23 of the last 37 is much, much better than mediocre.

[curt]

rsb -- Burrell is Ofer something against Davis. Nunez has him him well.

[J. Weitzel]

Garcia will be eating innings for Texas/Seattle/Kansas City next season.

[RSB]

Jesus, Mark. Are you watching with pom-poms in your hand, or what?

[bay_area_phan]

Out of curiosity, I counted. Garcia has thrown 46 consecutive pitches (and still counting) since an Arizona hitter last swung and missed.

[Inky]

Ummm....did our friendly next door neighbor Sarge just say, "boning the bat" because that's what it sounded like on MLBtv.

Wow.

[Terry]

He's an American League pitcher. He keeps you in 4-5 run games in the A.L. because you don't have to hit for him.

[mark goldentyer]

no pom-poms, I'm a real man(5 Boston Marathons); just have a hard time reading the ubiquitous negativity here when the Phils are seemingly headed in the right direction. I thought that a real fan tries to stay positive. Granted, the 3-10 start made that virtually impossible--but things are looking up-this team will hit. Myers will be back(I loved the poster who stated it was his rotator cuff and Myers' career was coming to a close).

[Terry]

I'd be nice to get a 3 run jack about now

[Greg]

Mark,

Thanks for sharing your Resume with us, "man". Go lecture your fifth grade class on what it means to be a "real" fan.

[Terry]

Son of a 'itch

[fljerry]

Cholly is an idiot

[Crazy Jon]

That turned out much better than sending the runner with one out and the pitcher coming up.

[inky]

watch Garcia cough up two or three runs this inning....you just know it's going to happen.

[Ben Keeler]

seems like that was the chance tonight. dont think we will get another one.

[fljerry]

by the way I ran 6 marathons and I after seeing Cholly letting the pitcher bat with bags full - I guess I am negative about this team and mgr

[RSB]

The good news is, they were starting to get to Davis a little, and it's still a close enough game. (How's that, Marathon Man?)

[bay_area_phan]

No big deal that Cholly let Garcia hit for himself there. After all, he's pitching lights out & the Phillies will have plenty more opportunities in this game to send the go-ahead runner to the plate.

[Terry]

Which Phillies brass genius hired Gary Matthews? His voice annoys me and his explanations and comments are excruciating!!

[Crazy Jon]

3 hits and no runs to show for it - heinous.

[thrillhouse26]

I wouldn't have liked to see him PH for Garcia because our bullpen for 4 innings won't exactly outshine Garcia.

[Crazy Jon]

Counts as a "quality start" for Garcia - pathetic.

[J. Weitzel]

Could we see more than six from Garcia tonight?

[RSB]

Terry, Matthews had a great moment last inning when they showed "Ruiz's Raisins" on the telecast.

Wheeler: "That's a good look."

Matthews (after five second pause): "It's a raisin!"

Who needs a game when you've got that kind of entertainment?

[bay_area_phan]

Thrillhouse,

Did you notice the Phillies are down by 3 runs & had the bases loaded? Might that have some relevancy in deciding whether or not to pinch hit?

[J. Weitzel]

Maybe we're getting spoiled by all the good starts lately. Six innings, three runs would have been seen in a different light last season.

[Crazy Jon]

We'll see 8+ - Garcia will probably bat for himself in the bottom of the 8th.

[fljerry]

What good is having Garcia pitch more innings if we can not score at least 3 runs. Having bases loaded - you have to have gotten at least 1 run. You have to pinch hit him

[Crazy Jon]

The "quality start" is a bogus stat - giving up 3 runs in 6 inning = 4.50 ERA.
Pitchers with 4.50 ERAs are not quality pitchers.

[thrillhouse26]

I don't know but if Garcia is the 5th starter and we get any quality start from him, I wouldn't be complaining.

It was a no win situation. With not sending the runner. It would be nice to have the pinch hitter but what if they bounced into a double play?

[RSB]

The only way you justify batting Garcia there is because he's shown a decent bat this year. I thought he had a chance to drive in a run there. Keep in mind the bullpen remains a land mine.

[Crazy Jon]

"I don't know but if Garcia is the 5th starter and we get any quality start from him, I wouldn't be complaining."

- The problem is that Garcia was not brought in here to be the #5 starter - he was brought in here to be the ace or #2.
This type of performance from a supposed ace or #2 is unacceptable.

[bay_area_phan]

What if you let Ryan Howard hit for himself and he strikes out? What if you start Cole Hamels and he has a bad game? Managing a game is about managing probabilities, not certainties. They are down by 3 runs & have the bases loaded. You seriously think the odds of scoring a run with Garcia hitting were as good as the odds of scoring a run with Helms, Burrell, or Dobbs hitting? It was not a "no win situation." It was an obvious situation. You go for the runs. If you don't score 3 runs in the next few innings, it doesn't matter how many runs the relief pitcher allows.

[curt]

bay - Cholly's fear of his BP pretty much trumps every other consideration.

[thrillhouse26]

I'm just looking at the bright side. Perhaps didn't tax the bullpen in game 1.
Would love the runs but 2 extra innings out of the starter I like as well. Would have rather Garcia take 3 straight pitches and maybe strike out and leave it to Jimmy or work into a nice count.

At home if we give the starter gives up 3 runs, We should be able to win those games.

[J. Weitzel]

All things considered, not a bad job by Garcia. Six strikeouts over seven, three runs.

[ZT]

Sorry to come in late, but the big man is definitely back, that thing was opposite field.

MVP!

[J. Weitzel]

YES! That's the home run we've been waiting for from Howard.

[bay_area_phan]

I can't agree. You don't get too many opportunities with the bases loaded & no outs. The bullpen could give up 10 runs & it wouldn't matter if we don't score 3 of our own. A 13-0 loss counts the same as a 3-0 loss.

[mark goldentyer]

in baseball, the veteran pitcherhits in that situation. bay are phan, your criticism has no merit.

[bathtubhippo]

bay, i'm with you. when you've been getting shut down all game, you need to try and put some runs on the board when you have your best odds at doing so.

[fljerry]

Bay area I agree 100% I believe Cholly left Garcia in because of last outting where Garcia was po'd because he took him out

[Ztuart]

I just dound this link on wikipedia, look at the last sentence under the "technique" heading.

Enjoy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blocking_the_plate

[J. Weitzel]

Wow - Garcia goes eight? Nine strikeouts? Wow. I'll go eat crow.

[Crazy Jon]

1st 2 runners get on in the bottom of the 8th = guarantee Cholly sends Garcia out to bunt.

[Malcolm]

Got into early trouble, but Freddy had a great outing. No way you can't say that.

[Crazy Jon]

Meant leadoff hitter.

[mark goldentyer]

Garcia has pitched well.

[bathtubhippo]

yep, admirable outing from freddy, gave the team a chance to win today, and you can't ask for much more than that. good outings happen when you don't throw 30 or 40 pitches per inning.

[bay_area_phan]

Mark,

It must have some merit because there seem to be a lot of people out there who agree with me. There are no hard and fast rules about when to pinch hit; there is only common sense. I watch a lot of Giants games & Bruce Bochy, the Giants manager, routinely pinch hits for his starting pitchers early in the game when the team needs runs & a scoring opportunity arises. Bochy has a lot better credentials than Cholly has, when it comes to taking teams to the playoffs

[Crazy Jon]

I will recant what I said earlier = 3 runs over 8 innings qualifies as a quality start to me.

[curt]

Would it kill Ruiz to take a strike every month or 2?

[JB]

Probably should have left Garcia hit.....

[bay_area_phan]

Garcia pitched 3 more innings & they were the best 3 innings he has pitched all year. But it isn't going to matter because they're going to lose 3-1. The decision not to pinch hit cost them their best chance to get themselves back in the game. Not just their best chance: their ONLY chance.

About the only upside of the move is that maybe Garcia's last 3 innings can help him generate some positive momentum which can carry forward to his next outing. But I wouldn't count on it.

[curt]

Gonna be fun to see Rocket take the mound for the last place Yankees all summer long.

[curt]

Cholly won't have any more confidence in his BP next time either.

[Crazy Jon]

Here we fucking go.

[bathtubhippo]

well he *started* off the inning like the madson we remember from a couple years back....

[bay_area_phan]

and he finished like the more recent version of madson

[curt]

Ah, but it was a magic weekend in Atlanta...

[mark goldentyer]

Bochy has the same number of World Series rings as me. When you say routinely, I challenge you to show me ONE instance, just ONE where a pitcher has given up 3 or less earned runs, where Bochy pinch hits for him, unless it is a rookie pitcher. I'll wait for yor response. I'll pay you fifty bucks for every one you find.

[RSB]

I'll say this much, Garcia's gotten no run support at all this year. What the hell is it with Doug Davis?!

[J. Weitzel]

No excuse not to slam the door with two outs, but Madson had another one of his patented tough luck innings right there. Bloop single, walk on a close call to Clark.

[J.R. King]

That was my fault. Every time I say something good about Madson on this board, he has a letdown game.

That was the third and last time it's gonna happen.

[RSB]

Mark, Manuel could have gone either way there. I don't particularly fault him for not pinch-hitting, but I also wouldn't have complained if he had chosen to. It's not as clear-cut as you pretend. Don't parade around like you're some kind of expert, because you obviously aren't.

[curt]

2 or 3 runs seem possible here...

[clout]

Madson ERA: 3.63; Borowski ERA: 6.75
As I said earlier the measure of a reliever is whether he holds a lead or, when the team is behind, prevents the deficit from getting larger. ERA and WHIP are irrelevant.

[Greg]

RSB - Mark is from Tupelo, MS - give him a break. Just be glad he can read.

[bay_area_phan]

Mark,

You're kidding, right? Are you telling me that just because a veteran pitcher has allowed 3 or fewer runs, he gets to hit for hiself, regardless of the situation? So, if there are 2 outs, bases loaded in the 9th inning, and you're losing 1-0, the veteran pitcher gets to hit for himself?

[bathtubhippo]

wasn't mark the one who said that nunez was the second coming a couple weeks back?