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Saturday, May 12, 2007


Copied from last thread courteesy of Billy Mac


Dobbs get start today at 1st with Howard out. Nunez at 3rd and Ruiz catching.

1. J Rollins, SS
2. S Victorino, RF
3. A Rowand, CF
4. C Utley, 2B
5. P Burrell, LF
6. G Dobbs, 1B
7. A Nunez, 3B
8. C Ruiz, C
9. F Garcia, P

1. A Soriano, LF
2. C Floyd, RF
3. D Lee, 1B
4. A Ramirez, 3B
5. M Barrett, C
6. J Jones, CF
7. M DeRosa, 2B
8. C Izturis, SS
9. A Guzman, P

How has Freddy "Love Me Tender" Garcia looked? Alright Pat the Pat!

Did you see that hit by Garcia?

Not looking at the scoreboard, Garcia looks better on the mound, mechanically. Not as bunched up.

There is no more annoying topic than Joe Borowski. Whether Borowski sucks or he is the second coming of Bruce Sutter, it is only week 6. Give him a few more weeks to blow that shoulder out. I certainly dont wish that on him, but he is not making it through this season. The Indians were the only team desperate enough and cheap enough to sign Borowski and Foulke to be their potential closers. Foulke is retired, and he was going to be ahead of Borowski. Even the Indians didn't think they had any kind of a sure bet in Borowski. They are just praying that the can figure out which one of their younger guys can fill his position when, not if, he goes down.

Ruiz and Garcia has absolutely no chemistry today. Ruiz has called for a fastball on a couple of occasions only to be waived off by Garcia for a breaking ball.

Everyone's favorite "hitter" Nunez just grounded into a first pitch DP following a nice lead-off bunt for hit from Dobbs. He was close to a DP in his first at-bat too, only he didn't hit it hard enough.

Anyone opposed to having Nunez bunt each and every time he comes to the plate? Less likely to have a DP that way. If he had bunted Dobbs over, we'd probably have another run from Ruiz's single.

garcia looks focused and getting ahead of hitters. then again, not surprised since he owns the Cubs.

I believe that someone drastically overstated the Muts bullpen on the last thread.

1.) Glavine: Old, but I'll concede, despite my protestations, that he is servicable.
2.) Orlando Hernandez: Are you kidding me? Isn't he in the DL? If he is not, when does he go back on?
3.) Oliver Perez: "Three faces of Ollie" is the model of inconsistency.
4.) Mike Pelfrey: Racoons seem to have gotten into his stuff.
5.) Jorge Sosa: Suddenly this guy is a go to guy. Despite falling out of favor in Atlanta and St. Louis (The two clubs with the longest history of reclamation projects: See Dave Duncan, Leo Mazzone), he has finally gotten it under Roger McDowell. All they need to do now is get Mitch Williams to work with him on control, and he will be an elite pitcher.

6.) Pedro: Let's talk about guys that have pitched this season. When Pedro reverses his gradual decline and latent average ways from the last two years, talk to me about him.

Oops, meant rotation. Great play by Rowand.

again!!! awesome

Victorino's arm needs a nickname for itself.

hahahahaha nice slde Sorryano

Is Vic is CF?

Vic plays OF, I wouldn't me suprised if he snagged some balls from Burrell.

Play of the game so far. Yet another victim of Victorino's arm. I wonder if Soriano slowed-up because thought Rowand and his softball arm would be throwing home instead of Victorino.

*be not me

Garcia looks spent. He was lucky to get out of that inning with only a run. Wonder if Cholly trots out Garcia again in the 7th?

Dobbsie 3 hits.

1. T Glavine 4-1 2.98era
2. J Maine 5-0 1.79era
3. O Perez 3-3 3.48era
4. O Hernandez 2-1 2.53era
5. J Sosa 2-0 2.77era
6. M Pelfrey 0-5 6.53era

What I hear from a friend of mine in nyc is that Pelfrey is going to AAA as soon as Hernandez comes back, which will be after 1 more start by Pelfrey and Sosa will get that 5th rotation shart. If you ask me theres no argument in saying that the mets starters are better then the phillies 1 through 5.

1. C Hamels PHI 5-1, 3.46 era
2. J Moyer PHI 4-2, 3.00 era
3. A Eaton PHI 3-3, 7.43era
4. J Lieber PHI 1-1, 3.33era
5. F Garcia PHI 1-2, 5.33era

Granted Hamels is better then any mets pitcher but he cant seem to beat them. Eaton is doing worse then Pelfrey and has 3 wins. Glavine and Moyer are doing about the same. perez and leiber are both .500, I would rather have perez personally. That leaves Garcia and Maine, Maine hands down.

Noonan!! Squeeze!!! WTF?!!!

what the heck is going on here? this looks like an efficient offense...

Holy crap. The Phils actually executed a successful suicide squeeze.

Dobbs is doing the little things that this team is missing. Bunting for base hits, breaking up double plays (did you see them taping up derosas leg after dobbs' slide?), taking the extra base on outfield miscues. We need to get him in the lineup every day. Why can't he play third for us?

Hope you are wrong about Garcia being spent MG, but I fear you could be right.

that triple probably puts nunez past helms in OPS too, ha!

A suicide squeeze? The Phillies? The shellshock might last for a week.

Mike in Norway, you have a point about Nunez, but only as left-handed hitter. He looks overmatched from the left side, but halfway legitimate from the right side.

Do the Cubs remind anyone else of the Phillies? Claw back and get close, and then give up a three-spot immediately thereafter. I feel for their fans.

Perez is not as good as Lieber when Lieby is right, maybe even when he is off. Sosa is horrible. Maine was average last start and should come down to earth. Hernandez is on the DL, and if he is not, he should be/will be soon.

Has Freddy been favoring one of his fingers for most of the game or has he just started doing it last inning. It seems that a few times after he gave up a hit he'd look at his pointer finger on his right hand and move it around.

I knew as soon as I bad-mouthed Nunez he'd do something to make me look bad -- although he should have been out at 3rd. Poor tag by Ramirez.

When was the last time the Phils tried a squeeze?? WTF is right, has Cholly been to manager school on the day off?

Thats it lets get a rainout here and its over, 5-1 phillys win

Hope for rainout before Freddy gives it away...

Damnit Cholly. Come out and stall so you can bring in Geary.

DH, you'll always be RSB to me...

Nice to hear a "Let's go Phillies" chant.

Freddy, let's step up and get through this inning.

Parker your nitpicking, Maine was average and the Mets still won. Sign of a good pitcher. The Mets changed Sosa's arm angle and hes been excellent in AAA and now in the bigs 2 games, dont minimilize his performances, he was 13-3 two years ago. Hernandez is on the DL but hes coming back after 1 more game, the guys is a big game pitcher as his playoff record will attest.

Now if you want to say the braves are a 2 pitcher team I will agree with you.


Change that last comment to "before the F'n BULLPEN gives it away..."

1. T Hudson ATL 4-1 1.83 era
2. J Smoltz ATL 5-1 3.25era
3. C James ATL 3-3 4.84 era
4. K Davies ATL 1-1 5.35 era
5. M Redman ATL 0-4 10.62era

MG could see it, I could see it, couldn't we all see it? Why didn't Charlie see it? Garcia was spent.

If only he could trust the bullpen!


Oh man this is bad.

philly tradition, get runs and give them back. sigh.

they couldn't do this 5 minutes ago??

Thanks, fan in DC...I think?

Well, I no longer feel so damn bad for Cub fans. Their team just ambushed the Phillies, and who do we have left in the 'pen to hold them off? No, don't answer.

parker you forgot 1 thing there bullpen is 10 times better

Too bad the rain delay didn't come about 10 minutes early. Garcia did his job today but Geary has just been awful. Only thing that I don't like about Geary is that he can never get a strikeout when he needs one with runners on base.

why oh why could they not go to rain delay 5 minutes earlier!!

and even if you think mets rotation sucks they are winning games something we are not

What is happening? Gameday is stuck or something...

The rain delay came early enough. The Phils haven't batted so the inning doesn't count.

This game isnt over the phillies can still win.

rain delay with tie score and cubs have first and third with one out - can it rain for a few hrs so it goes back to last inning?

What the hell? I'm watching the game, 5-1 Phils. I decide to take a shower, I come back its 5-5 and a rain delay? I'm never taking a shower again.

Phils101, I may have been on Mars the last two games, but didnt we win those?

ZT, thats great. Reminds me of the movie Fletch. "Erwin Fletcher, the only man who changes his identity more than his underwear.

Cholly4life: I don't think I'm nitpicking, Maine is not the pitcher that his stats suggest. He may be good, but he is not that good. 2 starts for Sosa is about as solidly predictive as the bold assertions on here about Mike Paltrey's dominance.

Anyone who thinks the Phillies, as an organization, can compete with the Mets and Braves are out of their minds.

The phillies have no farm system or trading margin. This is at the root of the problem and a sign of poor long-term strategic management, whether it's PG's mess or his predecessor's.

The Mets can easily pay the cost of adding a Harden or another 'final piece' - as can the Braves. The Braves have a lot of trading pieces as well. If Salty is ready, they can trade away a silver slugger in McCann and get a front-end pitcher in return. Phillies have no one like that.

This also affects the backup situtation and dealing with injuries. The Braves and Mets have much much more depth than the Phillies.

Parker - If either Sosa or Pelfrey were on the Phillies, they would automatically become entrenched as the 5th starter hands down.
And while I think Maine will regress slightly, he isn't going to regress that much where it'll make a difference in the W-L column. However, once Moyers starts coming down to earth, all those 1-run wins are going to turn into losses - making a big difference in wins.

Looking at the Mets pitchers, I'd take Maine, Perez, Glavine, and Pedro over everyone in the Phillies rotation with the exception of Hamels (this rotation doesn't include Myers).

Pelfrey is obviously not ready for MLB hiters with his 1 pitch. He needs to get his slider and brekaing ball over the plate. I hope you are right about Sosa, hes thier #5 pitcher at this point and hes 2-0

Game coming back on at 7pm.

It's hard to see how we win this one, short of a double play right here, maybe two innings from Myers and scratching out a run. (yeah, right) How do they keep this in reach -- with Rosario/Castro? Pul-leez. Time to start working on Gillick's 2008 strategy.

Man that was way Helms gets that.

thank god people keep running on victorino's arm, although i have no idea why.

Phillies bullpen now leads the NL in blown leads. But there was nothing Gillick could've done in the offseason, right BedBeard? Too expensive.

i like how PG said that we didn't have a 33-hr guy to trade for gonzalez. How about the horrible starter that was given up for Soriano? are you telling me Lieber is worse than Ramirez? that's ridiculous.

howard not available here?

Passive walk or "active" walk?

The Natural! In a thunderstorm, no less!

Okay, I think I'm back to feeling sorry for Cub fans again.

Burrell drew a walk and scored a run. But better he should swing at pitches out of the zone, right guys?


attytood: Check his bat!

Great 2 out rally here.

In an inning and a half it's gone from 2-1 to 11-7. Say what?

Are the Phils about to go into their annual May Recovery Drive here?

Nice to see the Phils get up off the canvas after the bullpen flap.

i think summer has begun at cbp. at the risk of sounding like wheels, the ball is flying everywhere today. these are two bad teams trying to out-lose each other.

Also, for all the pro-Nunez folks out there, Honest Abe is now batting .283.

On the other hand, what does it say about a team when it uses its closer for a two-inning, non-save situation?

The Phils have a 4-run lead and Cholly still brings in Myers to start the 8th. Talk about having no confidence in your bullpen.

Here is to hoping that Gordon and Madson can both be back by the end of month. At least Cholly will have some more options then.

Myers lookin sharp.. hope it carries over to the ninth.

If you're Gillick, it's time to start grasping at straws for bullpen solutions. I promise I won't mock him for signing someone like Ron Villone. The lack of options almost cost this team another game, and it's inevitably going to continue to bite them regardless of how strong the starting pitching and offense is. Geary is usually reliable, but if he fails in any given outing, they're in real deep trouble.

Okay, so I'm glad things are turning out better than that today. It's an inspired performance that's hardly typical of tis team. They seemed to have gone back into a trance on the road, and they've looked totally different since the instant Howard connected for the grand slam in AZ. But still. I can't believe that there's *nothing* that can be done, that they're supposed to just suffer with this bullpen as is until Madson and Gordon are back. Time to get creative, Pat.

vic should have slid there

Victorino and Rowand are bringing back Macho Row.

this is terrible....even with a four run lead in the bottom of the ninth, I am nervous

my mistake, top of the ninth

Why have 7 men in the bullpen when Cholly only uses 3 of them ? Condrey, Hernandez, and Castro have not appeared in a game since Madson was DL'd.

Relief pitching appearances since last Saturday May 5

Clay Condrey, 0 games
Yoel Hernandez, 0 games
Fabio Castro, 0 games
Francisco Rosario, 1 game , 1 inning
Brett Myers, 3 games, 5 innings
Geoff Geary, 4 games, 3.33 innings
Antonio Alfonseca, 3 games, 2.667 innings

It was a fun game to watch today. I loved the production from the bottom part of the order, particularly from Dobbs, and the 6 runs with two outs in the 7th for the Phils was a rare thing of beauty for this team.

Agree it was an entertaining game. Sweep tomorrow ?

What I think is a disgrace is that AlFonseca
Gets the win. I thought long time ago they could change that with the disgression of the official scorer. It should go to Myers.

B-Mac - this is my point. What is the point of having all these relievers who are never used by Manuel in remotely close situations - *especially* when the bench is so thin?! If Manuel won't use these guys - and it's hard to blame him for not wanting to - Gillick needs to find him someone he can use, or else at least send one down and bring Coste or Collier up. Kind of an absurd situation going on here.

Must be a happy day on beerleaguer - especially for Davthom.
Coste has been called up.

::champagne pop::


How much do you think we could get for Howard in a trade? Maybe we could get an Eric Lindros type deal, where the other team gives up everything and we end up with baseballs version of Petr Forsberg? The way Dobbs played today we could afford to trade him!

Was Coste's call-up announced on the radio broadcast of this afternoon's game? If so, Howard must be on the DL.

As Sam Carchidi's notes stated on today's, "(i)f Howard is put on the disabled list, the Phils would probably recall Chris Coste from triple-A Ottawa. Coste was hitting .235 entering last night."

Its official -- the transactions report just up a few minutes ago on the ESPN website -- Phillies: "(p)laced first baseman Ryan Howard on the 15-day disabled list, retroactive to Thursday; recalled catcher-infielder Chris Coste from Ottawa of the International League (AAA)."

Real happy day for davthom. As of tonight, by the way, the Phillies have the highest-scoring offense in the National League - in spite of Howard's poor season so far, our lack of "clutch" hitting, the fact that our 4-5-6 is "killing" us, etc. The pitching, again, is the problem. I thought we were starting to see Garcia turn things around, but the wheels kinda fell off after the 5th inning, as usual, and with the bullpen a total mess, it's hard to see how things improve much, unless we suddenly start getting great innings out of some unexpected source, like, say, Castro.

Actually glad the Phils placed Howard on the 15-day DL today. Besides finally letting him physically heal, it will be a good opportunity to let him clear his head. Phils need a healthy and productive Howard if they have any shot at the playoffs this year.

Obviously the Phils will go with a platoon of Helms/Dobbs at 1B while Howard is out but I wonder if Cholly plays the hot hand tomorrow (Dobbs) again. Wouldn't mind seeing Werth play in RF tomorrow with Dobbs at 1B, Nunez at 3B, and Ruiz at C.

I was at the game and it was an amazing roller coaster ride of emotion (many ups and downs, thankfully ending on an up).

Carlos Ruiz is a solid all-around catcher. Jason and I (with some others) have been huge supporters of Chooch for a while now, and it's time we recognize Ruiz for being a positive on this team.

The rain delay sucked, but I had a nice dispute about future hall-of-famers to help pass the time.

Our relief still looks like a disaster, with Geary now jumping on the crap-ship that includes everyone out there except Myers.

Nice win though. And Dobbs needs to get some starts at 3rd!

Hopefully this truly is only a 15 day stint on the DL for Howard, as this offense is going to need him this season.

GM-Carson, obviously, I think that all of us have completely agree with your statement, "Carlos Ruiz is a solid all-around catcher . . . it's time we recognize Ruiz for being a positive on this team." Indeed, you and Jason were Ruiz' earliest and strongest backers on this board, and both of you were right.

Actually, once Ruiz came back from AAA for the second time last season, Ruiz, for the most part, played like he is now.

Ruiz' excellent play -- in all phases of the catching game --simply spotlights Gillick's talent evaluation failure as a GM in PG's off-season signing of Barajas, for a $2.5-million one-year contract, with a $500,000 club option buyout for the second year.

Barajas current numbers: season BA - .178; lifetime BA -- .238; and one baserunner thrown out in 7 opponents' base stealing attempts.

Gillick's off-season signing of Barajas was not merely ill-advised, because it was unnecessary to allegedly bolster a catching situation that didn't need bolstering -- the Barajas FA deal consumed signing money that could have been used to help acquire a decent setup guy, or even a backup closer, given Gordon's questionable arm/shoulder status coming out of last season.

DavThom- I've been against the Rod Barajas singing since the day it happened. Ruiz is the starter, as many of of predicted he could handle, and Coste would have fit nicely into the backup role, for much cheaper and most likely far more productive than Rod too.

I understand getting insurance in case Ruiz didn't pan out, but to spend 3 million was unneccessary and now harmful. There's always "Quad A" veteran backups scuffling around on minor league deals that could have been brought in instead of Barajas. Gillick seems stupid with all these moves he's made. Only moves I've liked of his were the Moyer and Conine deals.

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