Game chat: Eaton, Vargas match up in round two

The Phillies, winners of four of their last five, try to build on yesterday's astounding comeback when they host the Brewers in game two of their four-game series.

Preview: Ever so slowly, the Phillies are climbing out of the hole they dug for themselves in early April. They’re 18-20, in third place, and trying for their fourth win in five games, the first of 10 to be played at Citizens Bank Park. The Phillies offense knocked the vaunted Brewers’ bullpen down a peg or two last night in the eighth inning when they came roaring back against Brian Shouse and Derrick Turnbow. Tonight, they get a crack at right-hander Claudio Vargas (3-0, 2.65 ERA). Vargas has given up just one run over his last 17 frames, but has never pitched the Phillies well. In 10 games, including eight starts (Geez, when did those happen, in some alternate reality?), Vargas is 1-3 with a 6.49 ERA. The Phillies counter with Adam Eaton, who enters the night 3-3 with a 7.43 ERA. The right-hander has been a disappointment so far, but pitched a workman-like effort last week in Arizona, allowing three runs on seven hits over seven innings.

What to watch: I need to see Eaton command his breaking ball better and keep his fastball down. It’s a warm night, and depending on how the wind is swirling, balls could be flying all over the place. With Eaton on the hill, no need for Abraham Nunez to start at third to backup a flyball right-hander and flail away at the plate against a righty. Let’s see if Wes Helms can get his first home run tonight, even if it’s a cheap one like Johnny Estrada's last night. Greg Dobbs is swinging a hot bat and should start at first. With Eaton going, it means we’ll likely see Geoff Jenkins, who totally killed the Phillies last season (11-25 (.440), 9 RBI, 1 HR).

Best of the press notes: In their last 31 games against the NL Central, the Phillies are 22-9 (.710), dating to last season.

Minor league players of the week: Bubba Nelson, RHP, Double-A Reading: 2 G, 9 IP, 9 K, 2 BB, 1 H, 0 ER, 0.00 ERA; Lou Collier, OF, 21 AB, .524 BA, 1 HR, 6 RBI, 1 SB, 11 H. (Editor’s Note: Lou Collier’s Wikipedia listing is the only place Beerleaguer is referenced in the entire online encyclopedia. Check it out here.)

[Live Boxscore]

Comments

[GM-Carson]

Jason, you should create a wikipedia page just for BeerLeaguer.

I agree that Helms should get the start at 3rd tonight, espically since Barajas is probably starting behind the plate.

[bay_area_phan]

Since Nunez can't hit right-handers, how about Dobbs at third and Coste at first? I don't have much use for Helms in the starting lineup, but I kind of like him coming off the bench.

[Malcolm]

Has the Mike Mimbs wiki page been created yet?

...

Get on it!

[Billy Mac]

Lineups

Phils
1. A Rowand, CF
2. S Victorino, RF
3. J Rollins, SS
4. C Utley, 2B
5. P Burrell, LF
6. G Dobbs, 1B
7. A Nunez, 3B
8. C Ruiz, C
9. A Eaton, P

Brewers
1. R Weeks, 2B
2. J Hardy, SS
3. P Fielder, 1B
4. B Hall, CF
5. J Estrada, C
6. G Jenkins, LF
7. T Gwynn, RF
8. C Counsell, 3B
9. C Vargas, P

[yt]

There is a Wikipedia page for a certain back-up catcher:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coste

It is actually up to date too including his call up on 5-12-07, although it failed to point out that he is hitting .000 in the majors this season (0 for 1).

[yt]

Sweet Ruiz starting again! But at the risk of sounding redundant, why batting 8th? Why behind Nunez? Oh well...

I can't wait for this series to be over, I have Fielder and Weeks on my fantasy team, but can't bring myself to start either against the Phils. And yes I have zero Braves and Mets on my squad.

[Steve Jeltz]

yt,

I think at the beginning of the season Cholly ordered 162 lineup cards that already came printed with a "C" in the 8 spot. Budget constraints prevent the team from ordering new ones. I honestly believe that is the most logical explanation for Nunez hitting 7th.

[bathtubhippo]

yt, same here for fielder and the absence of braves/mets! i'm sadly forced to start fielder, because derrek lee is still tweaked, and i can't have both out of my lineup...

[Lake Fred]

Yt, AWH answered your question in the last thread when he wrote: "Ruiz has to bat 8th behind Nunez to provide Nuni "protection" in the lineup."

[P'Oneil]

I have a hunch who created that wiki page for Coste...

[yt]

Ya BTH, I actually added Ruiz to my roster when Howard went on the DL, because I have V. Martinez as a 1b/C option. If Barajas had started today, I would have had to move Martinez back to C and put Fielder in.

Obviously there are only 12 teams in my league, not even that NYY have that kind of 1B depth.

[J. Weitzel]

I'm not surprised by all the playing time for Nunez. Ever since the San Francisco game with the two Helms gaffs, Helms has seen less action over there. Some of that is because Howard is out, but it's no secret anymore who Manuel prefers at third, and I'm sure the pitchers prefer it that way, too. And like someone said earlier, Helms gives Charlie a nice option later in the ballgame. No surprise Nunez starts again today.

[phila fan in dc]

Villone update- five paragraphs in to a WWL story about Clemens:

"The Yankees, whose bullpen has been dogged by ineffectiveness, called up veteran left-hander Ron Villone on Tuesday, ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney reported. A clause in Villone's contract would have allowed him to opt out of his contract and become a free agent had he not been called up from Triple-A Scranton-Wilkes Barre on Tuesday."

[curt]

There really is no case at all for playing Helms at 3B, just like there is no case for playing Barajas more than 1 day a week. It's too bad Cholly figures these things out weeks after everyone else on the planet.

[curt]

A 3rd lefty in the BP is the last thing the Yanks need. They could really use a RF...theirs has an unbelievable .291 SLG % to go with the .236 BA. For all of his screwups, Gillick is starting to look real good on this one.

[Steve Jeltz]

Curt,

I think the case for playing Helms at 3B is that the alternative is Nunez. Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer Helms as a bench player as well but they can't pencil Nunez's bat in the starting lineup 6 days a week and expect to win. I'm aware that he's picked it up over the last couple weeks, but does anyone here really expect that to last?

The real solution at 3B looks like it has to come from a trade.

[Alby]

No, Jeltzie, the IDEAL solution at 3B has to come from a trade. The real-world solution, unfortunately, looks like more of the same stuff we're getting now...but there is a wee bit of hope. We've seen enough of Helms to realize that his previous teams had not misjudged him -- he has neither the range nor the hands to perform as even an average defensive 3B. Nunez is better defensively, but still no great shakes -- league average, basically -- and looks like a Little-Leaguer swinging left-handed.

Which leaves us with two guys, Dobbs and Coste, who have not been given a look, at least so that we fans can see. I realize that some posters here don't believe the Front Office has the team's best interests at heart, that they will sit superior players merely to avoid having their judgment proved wrong; this requires a degree of paranoia and cynicism I just can't buy into (my theory about the treatment of Latino pitchers, OTOH, requires only a level of unconscious bigotry I think they're easily capable of). So maybe the manager and coaches have seen enough of those two at the hot corner to know they couldn't handle it. And yet...would it be wrong to hope Abe tweaks a muscle and has to sit for a couple of weeks? I hope not.

[Steve Jeltz]

I'd love to see Coste get just one start at 3B just to see what happens. I don't see the harm in doing it once in a 162 game season. But I've given up all hope of ever seeing it happen. If they didn't give him a shot last year when he was hitting .330 in a pennant race, I don't see them doing it now. Until they prove me wrong, I think we're stuck with Helms/Nunez.

The ideal solution to me would have been signing Iwamura instead of Helms in the offseason (even with the trip to the DL).

[curt]

As much as Cholly likes the sticks, you know if Dobbs or Coste could handle the position they'd be logging time there. Not to mention Cholly's desire to remain employed as long as possible.

[Alby]

I realize that, which is why I think you'll only see Dobbs there if Nunez gets hurt. Jeltz, I always thought they'd ignore Iggy because he'd be yet another LH stick in a lineup that's already unbalanced and vulnerable to lefthanders.

[Alby]

Iwamura, I mean. Sorry, the allergy medicine is making it doubtful I'll stay awake through tonight's game.

[SVC]

was the play at the plate even close?

[seth.]

For all the guys Vic throws out at home, he seems to get throw out there a surprising amount.

[Parker]

There should be some HR this game with that wind blowing out to right. Vic made some bonehead moves there, but he is giving a good effort. Nunez hits again. Nunez is really playing well. I dont really buy into the playing time equals production at the plate idea, but Nunez really seems to be more responsive in a non PH role. All of the sudden Gillicks moves are not looking so bad. Eaton is pitching well after the first inning (Which is nothing new). Vargas looks really hittable.

[curt]

The 2007 Phillies in a nutshell:

Squeeze out ONE run with men at 2d & 3d with NO outs, then turn around and walk the 8th place hitter with 2 outs, who steals 2d base and scores on error. Tie game.

[joe]

curt,

that's baseball in a nutshell.

[joe]

i'm thinking that vic needs a "rest" night....

[joe]

eaton is now going to get that low pitch ALL night...

[curt]

Agreed about the rest night, so long as it is Bourn & not Werth who takes his place.

[joe]

and cholly bats bourn lead-off.

[J. Weitzel]

The one thing I wanted to look for tonight is Eaton's location on his breaking ball. He's been very good with it; when he's missed, it hasn't been by much. It's starting to look like it can be a back-door out pitch. Eaton just might work out ...

[bay_area_phan]

This is shaping up as one of those low-scoring close games that gets decided in the late innings. In other words, the kind of game in which the Phillies are 0-12 this year.

I'm already having a vision of the winning run scoring off of Antonio Alfonseca.

[joe l]

other joe -- didn't victorino get sunday off?

[curt]

As usual, our starter has to go 7 for us to have much of a chance. This might be the day Eaton gets it done.

[SVC]

ROY HOBBS!!!

[Josh M]

Nunez is looking a lot more confident and comfortable at the plate lately.

[curt]

To the Nunez haters: Abe is hitting .319 (better than Utley) and has a SLG % higher than Burrell.

Strange game.

[MG]

Nunez has been swinging a hot bat (which is really shocking) so I don't have a problem with Cholly playing him again tonight. Helms gives them a legit bat late in games.

That said, I still think Nunez is almost a completely worthless player and just hope that Cholly doesn't play him night after night when Nunez inevitably reverts to his meager offensive numbers.

[yt]

Damn, no outs and a man on 2nd and they can't get him in. That could come back to haunt us.

On the plus side Dobbs and Abe are both pulling more then their weight recently, I like that.

[kells]

It should be 3-0 Phills in the 6th. First & 3rd no outs= No runs for the Phills.
Eaton has been impressive. It's nice to see him finish off guys w/ an 0-2 count.

[curt]

yt - Phil pitchers still can't get a bunt down to save their lives. They were terrible last year, and it hurt them then, and it is already hurting them now. Another thing Cholly failed to get done in Spring training.

[J. Weitzel]

He can take wild hacks from time to time, but Dobbs is starting to become a useful little pickup for the Phils.

[yt]

That play @ 2nd wasn't even close, what are they whining about?

[ajc]

Curt - Phils pitchers have been horrible at bunting since Francona was the skipper, not just since last year.

[mm]

all 3 of the twins hits have been to LF....is burrell missing some of these or are they not even close? I only have gameday

[mm]

brewers excuse me

[mm]

the cubs are beating up on the mets

[Tony]

no, they're legitimate hits

[attytood will]

I was gonna say, Burrell hasn't reached a ball hit by the Twins all this series!

[yt]

Burrell has looked fine, he actually made a real nice shoe sting catch earlier.

7.0 IP 0ER for Eaton, as a great fictional character once said "I love it when a plan comes together."

On a related note, I pity the fool that puts Alfonseca in for the 8th.

[ajc]

Cubbies up 7-1 on the Muts ... Eaton keeping the pitch count down and getting ground ball outs is not how I foresaw this game playing out in my head a few hours ago.

[Parker]

GM-Carson: Now might be the time to go out in public with that Eaton Beaver shirt. At least it would be accepted based on Eatons pitching tonight. You better hurry though, you might only have one inning.

[mm]

anybody warming up yet?

[curt]

Too bad we need all the starters (especially this one) to try to pitch a complete game.

[JB]

I think its Dobbs job to lose when Howard comes back........

[Parker]

Curt, why is a complete game a bad thing?

Well so much for that. (Fielder HR)

Dobb's flashing a little leather.

[SVC]

Time for a Myers four out save.

[davthom73]

Certainly Eaton has pitched well -- the question now -- can Eaton get a complete game earned run shutout and get his ERA under 6.00 this game? Nope.

[mm]

anyone know what myers ERA adjusted for just his RP numbers?

[The Other Kevin]

The homerun to Fielder notwithstanding, an excellent outing for Eaton. Hopefully this is a sign of things to come, and Gillick will come out looking good on this signing.

[MG]

Eaton exceeded my expectations tonight. Hats off to him.

Is it me or does there finally seem to a "buzz" again tonight in the hometown crowd?

[joe]

brett myers/goose gossage.

we's an old-school team. every starter is expected to go 7+, and then brett will come in.

yeeeee-haww!

[mm]

Myers moving to the closer role is the best decision this team has made all season

[curt]

This is a tough lineup to ask a guy like Eaton work through a 4th time. I'm not saying Cholly had any choice, but it's too bad there appears to be no bridge at all to Myers.

[JB]

Despite the reasons why Myers moved to the bullpen it is the highlight of the season.

If Eaton and Garcia continue to put some solid outings together and Howard gets healthy both physically & mentally things could start to get interesting in the NL East again.

Alot of IFs and the bullpen is still reason for concern but games are fun again.

[JB]

mm - you beat me to the punch.

[AWH]

OK, Haters! Myers to the bullpen the best move all season?

The man who made that move is none other than Charles Fuqua Manuel.

Despite everything else, give credit where credit is due.

[mm]

Yes it wasn't the best decision considering he was an excellent starter but given the situation it was the right move.

Though the management should get almost no credit for the move, considering they shouldn't have had to do it in the first place.

[mm]

STEAL!!

[bathtubhippo]

i hope you guys aren't putting a jinx on the 9th...

[mm]

who sent him?

[davthom73]

Estrada missed that tag on Vic -- even the biased Brewers' TV guys began to question the call upon seeing the replay.

[bay_area_phan]

i was thinking the same thing, bathtub. i would sure feel a lot better if they could get another run home.

[AWH]

mm. how is it that it was so easy to predict your reaction. Sure, if Seattle Stew had done an adequate job in the offseason bolstering the bullpen it would not have been necessary.

But Chollie made the right move. Period.

[JB]

AWH - Totally agree.

I also just read how Charlie was working with Nunez on improving his hitting which is something nobody expected either.

[mm]

AWH: Your exaclty right. And who should not get any credit is Seattle Stew. Cholly did make the right call based on the hand he was dealt.

[DH]

Not so fast, AWH. By my thinking, that move with Myers should have been made on March 1, not the tail end of April. Manuel and Gillick foolishly wasted Lieber in the bullpen and crossed their fingers with a half-healthy Gordon for all that time. With Lieber still in the fold and Gordon iffy, it should have been the obvious thing to do all along. I'm not about to hand Manuel a gold star for that.

[curt]

Sorry. The Myers move addressed the needs of today. Time will tell if it was the right move with one of our most valuable commodities.

[bay_area_phan]

I've gotta tell you, i still have a bad feeling about this game. That was a squandered opportunity right there and this is the kind of game the Phillies NEVER win. Plus, Myers seems overdue for a bad game. Of course, I tend to be pessimistic by nature, but that's from being a Phillies fan for so long.

[MG]

Damn. Phils continue to squander alot of opportunities where they should put a run on the board. 2nd and 3rd with 1 out is a situation where you need to put a run the board.

[Parker]

Davethom: not to be excessively adversarial, but what does Eaton's ERA matter? Particularly in light of your arguments that Borowski's ERA is irrelevant?

[joe]

doh.

[AWH]

The phan and the hippo jinxed Bret.

[bathtubhippo]

and the jinx is revealed.

[The Reverend]

Bat area I blame this on you. Just kidding but damn.

[DH]

You just knew the Phillies weren't getting to get off the hook for all these blown scoring opportunities tonight. And let's face it, Myers was overdue to give up a tater.

[Parker]

What the hell is Estrada's problem? Oh well, Myers had to give up a run sometime. Should have gotten that run, the play at the plate was a bad call.

[bathtubhippo]

all these compliments of nunez and manuel on here...it was just *unnatural*. something had to give.

[curt]

Same old story...1 for 8 with RISP. And yes, we still have that hole in the middle of the lineup.

[MG]

Yeah Myers gave up the HR but the Phils had to score in the bottom of the 8th. Keep my fingers crossed in the bottom of the 9th.

[AWH]

It's OK. We have Dobbs .319, Nuni .314 and Ruiz .287 coming up.

[bathtubhippo]

and myers *is* still on my fantasy squad, and i could use a win from him as much as a save, so let's keep it together here, hold em, and get it back in the bottom.

[davthom73]

That was a FAT pitch Estrada hit -- and you can seen from Myers' body English out there that he is losing his cool. On the replay, Estrada was caught saying something to Myers as he began his home run trot.

[bay_area_phan]

Unbelievable. Like I said, it's not like my pessimism comes out of nowhere. I've been a Phillies fan for 30+ years. Any experienced Phillies fan develops an intuitive feel for precisely which games they're going to blow. This one had all the usual indicators.

[yt]

Parker, the answer is pretty simple: SP don't inherit runners, so their ERA tells alot more about how they pitch then the ERA of a RP.

[davthom73]

Parker -- I was merely being complimentary toward Eaton for a well-pitched game -- you misread my post, my friend.

[bathtubhippo]

bay area, i was thinking the exact same thing and reading the unbridled enthusiasm about myers' relief perfection...well...it just seems like one of those things that would precede a meltdown or at least a letdown. this is the phillies here, after all!

[curt]

The real horror show begins if this goes to a 10th inning. Is Clay Condrey our man?

[Parker]

Davethom: could you tell if Myers said something to Eric Estrada, or was he just being a jackass?

[bay_area_phan]

Now we get the obligatory 1-2-3 bottom of the ninth, followed by 2 or 3 scoreless extra innings in which the Phillies squander several more scoring opportunities. Eventually, Alfonseca comes in and loses the game.

That's how this story ends, folks. We've all read it 100 times before. Maybe Greg Dobbs can change the ending. He's our only hope.