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Wednesday, May 09, 2007


J-Dog: We need some good news. Someone, somewhere has to be doing good things in the Phillies organization. Awesome job finding a pic of Marti Wolever by the way.

I think the great spending spree of 2003 is coming back to haunt us. Didn't we lose a bunch of high draft picks for signing Thome, Bell, and Worrell?

Tony, D'Arby Myers is hitting .313 with 11 steals in 31 games for the GCL Philles.

That is the only good news I could find.

Re that Ottawa team: it's no wonder the Canadians aren't very fond of baseball.

Could it be that the Phils FO reputation as hapless "do nothings" has pervaded the clubhouse itself? Maybe, when these young guys get into these major league situations, they actually pull success from there very being there.....whilst, in Philadelphia, these younguns are simply on their own. That would illustrate exactly how great Hamels is and will be. Now, Gavin Floyd didn't make the White Sox in April, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the guy coming up by August. I don't know much about Dubee, but I know a little about Milt Thompson and something tells me that he's no Charlie Lau....or Kevin Seitzer for that matter.

Too bad we can't sue the Phillies...

The Phillies should replace their current staff with the memebers from this site. Then maybe they would have half a prayer. Hell, we couldn't be any worse...

I hate to be a broken record, but I hate the state of things even more... none of this will change until the team is sold, and the team won't be sold until Bill Giles dies (or changes his mind).

So, my advice is to start shipping bulk quantities of unhealthy food--Bill seems like a Krispy Kreme guy to me--to Giles' mansion, wherever it might be.

Tony: Jamie Moyer is doing good things and pitches tonight. That's positive ... And thanks for the props on finding Wolever. It even had a realistic drop shadow.

And AZ counters with the Big Unit, who is sure to be made to look like he's 15 years younger by the time he gets through a big league lineup that includes Nunez, Helms, Dobbs and Burrell (probably Barajas, too).

Moyer better have another near no-no in him with the anemic lineups that we've been trotting out there.

there's a a quick mention of eaton as a possible target of the orioles on it seems like it may be a sarcastic remark though. Unfortunately, though perhaps accurately, he's in a group with Jeff Weaver. If there's any way to unload of eaton, it should be pursued full force.

Haven't been motivated today to even read Beerleaguer until now. After reading over 100 new posts, I'm even more depressed. Losing one run games after your starters give decent outings is truly depressing. Where are these great bats? We moan about the age of the starting rotation and how bad our pen is, but our run production was why we lost the last two games. What hope is there for Moyer tonight? He'll go seven innings, give up two runs and we'll lose the game. Sucks for all of us. I would feel better if Cholly was given a long summer vacation.

I've been away from the office much of the day and unable to check-in, however I just read through the previous post and have to say that it was some of the funniest stuff I've seen here. I'll have to remember to go back to that after the impending "What do we do next?" thread gets me down.

Kudos for adding some levity to Beerleaguer Nation, fellas. God knows we need it.

Last two nights we got quality starts from the two weakest performers of our 5 man rotation.

Watch the rotation roll now over their next 4 starts.

We get nothin' in trades because we are sending nothing out and dumpin salaries.

Dump is good. Raise your hands, who wants to pay 16 million dollars for Abreu's 2007 performance, who wants to pay 12 million dollars for Padilla's 2007, then 12 more and 12 more for his 2008 and 2009?

Preacher - As the ownership group knows so well, it's only a game.

If only they were interested in the same one we are.

The take on the Phillies minor league system is one I can understand, but I don't agree with all of the criticism the org gets. First off, if you look around baseball, you won't find many teams that have 5 or 6 home grown, established above average players in their starting lineup. Sure, lots of teams trade their veterans and get other teams prospects, but the team has to find those players first. The Phillies have home grown guys in Utley, Howard, Hamels, Myers, and Rollins. Which other teams around baseball can you think of that have developed that kind of core from their own scouting/drafting? The Marlins core was imported outside of Cabrera. The D-Backs core might rival ours, but those guys are largely unproven.

Second, the main problem is the lack of player development. Arbuckle has a keen eye for spotting quality players, especially good, projectable arms. But many of these guys seem to flame out once they get to the Philadelphia organization. I can't think the blame is all on Arbuckle or Wolever there. Who are the guys teaching these kids how to pitch? Look at an organization like Minnesota. They draft even less heralded guys and turn them into legit major league prospects. Arbuckle and Wolever aren't at fault there.

Ed Wade gave away a boatload of draft picks from 2002 to 2004, and that's catching up to us NOW. Guys taken in those drafts would be in AA/AAA now, and you'd do without the mercenaries currently there. The teams with the best farm systems have either

a. sucked big time for the last 4 years
b. have drastically overspent in the draft

Arizona fits the bill of A. They won the WS in 2001, were competitive in 2002, a .500 team in 2003, and they sucked thereafter. Sucking hardcore allowed them to draft guys like Justin Upton, Stephen Drew, Carlos Quentin, Conor Jackson and others near the top of every round. The Red Sox and Yankees fit into "b", as they spent the most money in the draft last year, buying kids away from college with second round money in the 17th and 18th round. That's a quick fix, high risk way to fix your system. The Phillies, unfortunately, don't fit into either category.

The thing is, the Phillies will always be picking in the 14-20 range, the "sure thing" guys aren't going to be there when we pick, but they need to exploit the system and sign a bunch of guys away from college like the Yanks/Sox do, and they need to do it quick. The only way to improve your system is to add a ton of talent every year and hope half of them turn into ballplayers. Will this current ownership group do that? No, they won't, but it's what they should do. The org DOES need to take a long look at the teachers/player development guys though, because I do believe there is a fundamental problem on that level, and that's much more fixable.

The bottom line is, every team makes mistakes in every draft. The wealthy teams can afford to cover those mistakes by adding in a bunch of guys later in the draft and overpaying. The Phillies haven't done that, and coupled with giving away a ton of picks, have exposed the lack of depth in the system. That's not to say there aren't potential stars in the system, because there are a few, but the lack of depth is the most alarming thing.

OK...but the Phils problems don't all revolve around their draft travails. Their record itself speaks volumes about this new and revamped pitching staff we've been hearing about and what about the lack of timely hitting? If you are making a case that the Phils front orifice is not that bad, you may be right....but they aren't that good either. Therein lies the problem with being a Phillies fan.

Another new look lineup tonight.
Rollins back at leadoff and Rowand third.

1. J Rollins, SS
2. S Victorino, RF
3. A Rowand, CF
4. C Utley, 2B
5. P Burrell, LF
6. W Helms, 1B
7. A Nunez, 3B
8. C Ruiz, C
9. J Moyer, P

1. C Young, CF
2. S Drew, SS
3. O Hudson, 2B
4. E Byrnes, LF
5. C Jackson, 1B
6. C Quentin, RF
7. C Snyder, C
8. A Callaspo, 3B
9. R Johnson, P


I've been reading your defenses of Gillick for awhile now. Sometimes I don't know whether you're serious or whether you're just trying to yank everyone's chain.

Is the idea to build a team comprised of 25 low-priced players on one-year contracts, or is the idea to build a team that is halfway decent? Salary dumping has its place but only as a means to an end -- the end being to put the dumped salary to better use. Almost by definition, players with big, multi-year contracts are at least decent major league players with some value. Aren't you at all bothered by all of the decent major league players Gillick has given away (i.e., Abreu, Padilla, Bell, Conine, Michaels, Lidle, Cormier, etc.), with absolutely nothing to show for it, except a few extra players to round out the roster of the Reading Phillies? Except for Abreu, all these guys were going to leave at the end of the year anyhow, so what was the point of giving them away for low-level prospects with almost no chance of ever contributing at the major league level?

Also, even on your own terms, how do you justify trading away Robinson Tejeda, a young, low-paid pitcher who was coming off a solid rookie year? How do you justify giving away Jason Michaels, a solid bench player, in exchange for an old, ineffective and injury-prone (and expensive) reliever? Or sending Chris Coste to AAA after he hit .328, and spending $2.5M to bring in a weak-hitting backup catcher whose defense isn't even particularly good? For that matter, even letting Endy Chavez go looks foolish in retrospect. Sure, we all hated Chavez when he was here, but we're not the ones whom the Phillies are paying to recognize talent.

The Inquirer's article on Alfonseca was [pretty horrifying. They noted that he has a 15.43 ERA in his last five games, and then Charlie says he's still making quality pitches and has just been unlucky.

He'll have about 7 or 8 more horrible games and then the Phillies will reveal that he has been injured since the end of April.

As I've said before, SirAlden either has the driest sense of humor on Beerleaguer or he is the stupidest poster on the Internet.

futurephillies, Isn't Arbuckle's title, Assistant GM , Scouting and Player Development? He doesn't get a pass for the lack of player development. What is he doing to improve it ? Let's look at minor league player development. Who hired Steve Swisher and Mike Schmidt as minor league managers/instructors ? My point was specifically not targeted at their scouting but rather their lack of success at both the major and minor league levels for several years. Gillick was brought in as Senior VP and General Manager -- yet everyone in the front office still keeps their job ? I'm glad in Gillick's year of "evaluating the Phils system", he's sees no room for improvement in any of the front office positions. I hope they all received raises for a job well done. And isn't it about time for Dallas Green to stick his foot in his mouth again ? His yearly outbursts are clockwork like the Capistrano Swallows.

phuturephillies: Your argument doesn't make your point. The Marlins great core of young players is indeed from outside organizations. Why? Because they TRADED older excellent players that they developed in exchange for the current crop. A better measure is to look at how many major league players were signed and developed by the Phillies versus other teams.

The defense that, "oh our scouts picked the right guys but our staff just didn't develop them right" is a load of horsecrap.

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