Part of CSNPhilly.com


« Same old problems haunt Phillies after 1-6 start | Main | Minors: Phils claim Michael Garciaparra off waivers »

Wednesday, April 11, 2007

Comments

The Barajas signing was totally unnecessary. It's great to pick up new players with big names, but when it hampers your ability to fill the positions you are truly deficent in (relief pitching), it's just money poorly spent.

We'd be much better off with Ruiz & Coste and a $3 million dollar setup guy.

We'd be much better with Ruiz and Coste and a $3 million dollar free hotdog day.

thats all this franchise needs ..

pitchers hate philly for the stadium, players dont want to come for the phans and now this?

and one more thing.. i dont think Pat Gillick cares...

It's going to be a good night of television. Phils, Dice-K vs. Ichiro, Lost, America's Next Top Model ...

Can someone tell me why the hell Gillick has an infatuation with signing players he had in other organizations? It seems like every player he gets, he has had something to do with them previously. And none of them are working out.

It just confuses me.

The Werth signing doesn't offend me as much as some other people because at the end of the day they needed an OF and a guy who can also serve as an emergency catcher adds some value. He wasn't the best OF option, but as a 4th outfielder I can deal with him.

It's the Barajas signing that seems increasingly superfluous. If I could change the offseason moves, I wouldn't have signed Helms and Barajas and instead spent that money on Iwamura and the bullpen. The Ruiz/Coste catching tandem was more than passable the end of last year and you'd still have Werth as an emergency plan if necessary.

There is nothing worse than a GM who can not let go of the past ... Gillick did not learn from last years follies ... but again this year signed players he "knew." We should never have signed Eaton or Barajas. Arguably the Phils needed Eaton at the time ... if so, then we should not have traded for Garcia ... or should have flipped Garcia for relief pitching. At his point in time, I am not quite wure there is a game plan to player acquisition ...

It confuses us all, skeeter.

Perez is not unbeatable. He had a good opening day, but he's not unbeatable. But if Eaton pitches like he has his last 2 starts (BoSox and Atl). We're screwed.

Double feature: The Sal Fasano story starring Rod Barajas and The Gavin Floyd story starring Adam Eaton. Can't wait for the 2008 sequels

Jason - that's too spooky, as ANTM is also on this evening over here. But the last series, I think, since my wife has already wiki'd to find out who the winner is. Me, I'm staying in blissful ignorance.

Perez is VERY beatable. Unfortunately, so is Eaton.

The Phils need to get the bats going early, since last year he was vulnerable to the big first inning. He tends to settle down as the game progresses. The Phils hit him pretty well last year, tagging him for 9 ER and 10 walks in 8.2IP over 2 games. (Well, basically everybody hit him well last year...)


A Coste thread on gamenight sure to generate over 500 posts, 250 of which will come from Davthom.

I'd like to comment on JW's last paragraph, about the organization vs. respecting its players. It was RSB (I beleive) a few months ago that really hit the disrespect nail on the head when he cited Amaro Jr's comments surrounding Howard and his contract negotiaions as "not being a priority." Upon his hearing of that, I'm sure he can now sympathize with Coste. We've seen and heard this before, and it's a shame that it has to happen. I'll bet PG just looked at Coste's age, his minor league tenure, and decided right then and there in his own scouting mind that theres no way a guy like that makes a pro team. Sight unseen. It's hard to argue against it, or at least the feeling, but I can't get past the Werth comments, the Amaro comments, or the fact that we're even talking about it.

What a shame.


What's sad is that PG gave more consideration to Kim Garcia than Coste.

Just realized you can follow the Ottawa Lynx today on Gameday, on their website. Besinius was bombed again, but his era fell to 33.75, and Chris Coste is still looking for his 1st hit.

Here's a useful (and depressing) post from MLB Trade Rumors:

The Relief Market

The complaining in Philadelphia is going to reach a fever pitch if GM Pat Gillick doesn't shore up the bullpen soon. Charlie Manuel put it bluntly: "We've got to fix our 'pen."

So which relievers might be available, aside from the aforementioned Brad Lidge?

* There's Byung-Hyun Kim, but he'd probably be a nightmare in Philadelphia. The Rockies can't seem to pawn him off on anyone.
* The Phils would love to get Scott Linebrink, but the Padres don't have any reason to give him up and in fact might yet work out a contract extension.
* Salomon Torres should be available, but the Pirates appear to fancy themselves contenders and already weakened their pen with the Mike Gonzalez trade. Still, if they want to sell high, they should deal him before he blows a few more saves.
* The White Sox, with a deep bullpen, seemingly have a surplus. And Kenny Williams gets along with Pat Gillick. But with Bobby Jenks's status still in question, I don't see them moving anyone.
* Chad Cordero, while not a dominant closer, is certainly better than anyone the Phillies have. Top prospect Carlos Carrasco would get Jim Bowden's ear, and Michael Bourn would fit nicely at the top of Washington's lineup. Those are the two I think Bowden would want for Cordero. Jon Rauch or Luis Ayala would be nice additions as well.
* Akinori Otsuka could become available, and I'm sure he'll be a tad disgruntled from losing his job based on Eric Gagne's long-ago success. But I don't think Jon Daniels will use Gagne without a safety net.
* If I'm Dan O'Dowd, I'm shopping Brian Fuentes while he's at his peak and still affordable. The lefty saved 61 games over the last two seasons but turns 32 this year.
* Derrick Turnbow is off to a great start with four scoreless innings, six strikeouts, and most importantly, no walks. He'll make $5.5MM for 2007-08. It would be an ideal time for Doug Melvin to trade him, but I'm not sure what the Phillies could offer that the Brewers need. A smaller deal for Jose Capellan could make sense, if the Phils really think he's a back of the bullpen guy even though he couldn't crack Milwaukee's pen at all.
* The Cubs don't seem to think too highly of Mike Wuertz, but the 28 year-old quietly had a very solid season last year.
* Dustin Hermanson is out there, but he's not going to solidify this bullpen. And forget about Ugueth Urbina...he was sentenced to 14 years in prison for attempted murder. I'm all out of ideas as far as guys who would make the 'pen better in Philly. Did I miss anyone?

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/04/the_relief_mark.html

The best thing that could happen for us is to get out to another 5-2 lead after 5 innings, then have the game called due to rain.
This way, we can get a win without allowing the Phillies to puke all over themselves in the late innings.
I believe we got a win last year over the Mets in this fashion.

Paul,

The Amaro comment was sick. It was like Howard was some piece of junk and not the MVP. That comment was dumb and the fact they didn't give him a salary even a dollar above Pujols raise was idiotic. They are a bunch of PR buffoons.

J: Didn't you recently post that some other catcher in camp was told/heard that it was Coste's job to lose and his hammy was the problem? I may have made up the hammy part.

May this post be summed as "Fire Pat Gillick"?

Crazy Jon that actually is a brilliant thought. Maybe at every game we could get a few Indians in the crowd to start a rain dance as soon as the Phightins get the lead. Hopefully they can get the rain going before our bullpen has to throw a pitch.

Crazy Jon:

I'm pretty sure the game you are referring to is the one where Rowand broke his face. You're right though, if baseball games only lasted 5 innings the Phils might be World Series favorites.

Gillick so far hasn't made alot of shrewd moves but I will await until this offseason to begun passing judgment.

The thing that really frightens me is what is the alternative to Gillick if he quits/retires the end of this year. Does it mean Amaro is automatically elevated to GM role?

If Amaro does become the Phils GM in 2007/08, then it means the Phils are one-step closer to become the clown franchise they were for the late 1980s/most the 1990s.

BB: Yes. Jason Hill was the catcher who said the catchers in camp were under the impression it was Coste's job to lose and confirmed that he had a bad hammy.

Cordero looks like the last, best option.

Jon Rauch actually looks like a decent option to me and we could get him for much less than Cordero. Look up his numbers, they're surprisingly good.

As I said in the previous thread - I am not as down on the Barajas signings as others. He is a 1-year stopgap measure that was brought in case Ruiz & Coste didn't pan out. I don't think Barajas is a stellar player but he is better than Fasano. Fasano was an out-of-shape, aging veteran who only positive attribute was his facial hair.

Gillick does deserve some credit for making some contingency plans here. To me, the Barajas signing is one of the few cases where Gillick actually demonstrated some foresight. If Gillick has done this for the bullpen, they wouldn't be in the current trouble of trawling for guys like Rosario/Bauer.

The only stupid really stupid point that Gillick continues concerning the catcher position is that Werth is an emergency 3rd catcher. Don't know where this keeps coming from but it is just really a plain stupid idea. Gillick and the Phils front office would be better off to just let this topic die on its own.

And today Buster Olney writes in his blog, for what it's worth:

• A scout on the Phillies: "They don't have B-grade players. They've got some star players, but then they've got a lot of guys who are not Grade B guys -- they're Grade C, or lower."

• Heard from three talent evaluators that Aaron Rowand looks as if his body is a little thicker and slower this year.

Is "thicker" a euphemism for 'roids, or is he just getting fat?

How about Rowand just sucks and if he didn't run face first into that wall last year, everyone would be ripping him right now for his ineffectiveness. We're better off putting Bourn in center and letting him develop. He's better defensively and will give you more options offensively.

Brilliant analysis from the talent evaluaters.

Tray: You don't need a talent evaluator to make that observation. Rowand looks like he's packed on a small spare tire, at least in my observation.

Its disgusting to see how Coste has been treated. The man performed in '06, he was liked and respected by all the players yet he has been kicked out the door. Aside from being a good catcher, backup corner infielder, his patient AB's would be a good PH option. Just what the Phils need right now.

To see him in AAA is very disappointing indeed.

"thicker" is a euphemism for fat.

Jill: Bill, what do you think of my friend Kim?

Bill: She's nice, a little thick.

Jill: Do you mean she's fat?

Bill: Yes.

What's getting slower is Rowand's bat. If Burrell has 40 good swings a year, what does Rowand have, 25?

The Phillies aren't going to be able to acquire any of those bullpen guys listed above, not at least for a few months. Lidge has obviously lost something off his fastball, so I don't know why people are thirsting to go out and drag him into the mess.

Gillick will not be fired - not now, not ever. If things continue to go as they've been, there'll simply be a mutual parting of ways when his contract expires.

Adam Eaton as the stopper? Best of luck. If the Phils leave NY with more than 2 wins, I'll be completely shocked.

It's getting scary. Reports on Coste seem to confirm more and more of what Davethom's vast conspiracy theories.

Very scary indeed.

During the run in August last year, I speculated that Coste, and not the Abreu trade, was the number one reason for the Phils improvement. The improvement in the pitching staff could just have been coincidence, but almost everyone improved after Coste took over regular duties. Now that anecdotal evidence is around to support the circumstancial, it seems that we all owe Coste a big thank you for last season.

As for what he can do now, I'm not sold he is the all-star he looked like, but there is no question in my mind based on his recent minor league performance (not '06 obviously) and brief debut, that he is a major league player. Anytime you can get a solid player on your roster for the minimum, you have to do it. I don't think the Phils can trade Rod the Bod until June 1st however, so we'll have to wait until then.

It's a beer belly. After four years in State College, I can spot one a mile away.

I think Rowand is kind of like your standard muscle head, too. Back in the day, lifting weights to build size used to be discouraged in baseball because it made you inflexible.

See, this is one of the major problems with this organization that you are touching on here Eddie. It also came to mind in a post from the previous thread:
"Consider:

Group A:
Rowand ($4.35M)+ Barajas ($3M) + Eaton ($6.85M) = $14.2M

Group B:
Abreu ($15M) + Coste ($.385M) + Bullpen arm (Lieber to rotation) ($.385M) = $15.73M

Now, which group would you rather be paying?"

From a purely logical standpoint this is a no brainer, but the organization is so terrified of admitting error, or so incapable of percieving error that we are stuck banging our heads against the wall.

Once Barajas, Eaton and Rowand put pen to paper, they solidified thier positions. Once the Phil's announce a big signing or re-signing the deal is done, end of story. So what if Coste is better then Barajas? So what if Bourne is better then Rowand, so what if the team would be better off with Lieber pitching 5th then with Eaton there. Whats done is done.

Thats why a team like Florida can compete, why the Nats will probably play .500 ball against us. It isn't how much money you spend it is how much talent you put on the field.

We have more talent and more money invested then either of those teams, but we have the money on the field, and the talent on the bench in the pen and in Canada!

Sorry to ramble but damn that pisses me off.

Play your best players, I don't care that Abe Nunez is making 2 mil this season, he should never start!

The biggest concern about Rowand is that he damaged his eyesight plunging headfirst into a wall.

He did have a fracture very closer to his eyesocket. a very very small change can screw eveything up.

As far as the pen goes, I would wait to see if Gordon is for real or not. If he is at the level of last year, then I wouldn't go after Cordero, who is the only sure thing in that group.

If Gordon is as bad as he looked so far, then I would do Carrasco + Madson (not Bourn) for Cordero. Guys who pitch well at Lakewood are all too common, and unless a pitcher is downright Hamelsian at the A level, it's still a crapshoot. I know Madson's stock is pretty low, but the Nats expressed interest in him as a starter, and he would be well suited to the national park that team plays in.

If they want Bourn, I would offer them a lesser pitching prospect. Cordero is the real deal, but he is going to be very expensive next year in arb, probably around $8M.

An interesting note on his awesome '05 season (1.89 ERA): 9 of the 24 runs he allowed were *unearned*. While I'm sure defense caused some of this, that is a lot of unearnedc runs, and it makes me think that some of them are the kind where a team scores runs with two outs after an error has been made. Though these are technically *unearned*, I think the 3.19 ERA of last year is probably closer to what he is capable of.

The Nats are going to be a pitiful team this year, however, so I am sure they will be shopping Cordero early and often.

I broke my orbit in six places in a car accident once. A little plastic surgery and a titanium plate and I'm all better. 20/20 vision still.

That was at a county hospital in the midwest.

I doubt Rowand has vision trouble from the collision.

Final pre-game point:

Anyone check out the new B-Ref? They now have updated 2007 stats!!! Bye bye MLB.com and Yahoo...

Easily the funniest line of Hagen's piece on COste today:

"But after hitting .328, I'm trying the best I can to keep my mouth shut and not say a word."

This after a full page of the most honest, ungaurded quotes you'll find in sports.

While the Phillies do miss Coste and he was a great story, we probably shouldn't go too far. The story today reports that he makes over $150,000 this year...I realize that there are dreams at stake here too, but this isn't bad compensation.

yt -

its not vision trouble, as you would think of it, its much more subtle.

hitters rely on their vision to a much, much higher degree than you, or I. Plus, a small degree of change is amplified.

if he lowered his vision by 3% (a meaningless number), his BA would drop by 30 points!

Picking up and tracking a ball at 90+ MPH is different than reading an eye chart in a doctors office.

joe's right, yt. (well, maybe not on the 30 points.)

ask Tony Conigliaro if impaired eyesight affects your baseball skills.

I really wish Chris Coste was given a chance this season to see if he could continue his success. I wasn't expecting a +.300 average again, but he seemed to shine in situational hitting, and that's a glaring deficit of this current team. Screw the money, because yes Barajas costs more than 2 million more than Coste, but I think a tandem of Coste/Ruiz would be more productive offensively and just as sound defensively and at handling the pitching staff than the current Barajas/Ruiz tandem. We needed relief, not an effing catcher!

kdon - I do not think you wait to see how Gordan pans out if you can get Cordero now for the players you mentioned. I would make the deals you mentioned in a heartbeat if the Nats would do it. The problem is there is no compelling reason for the Nats to trade Cordero now. They would be wise to allow his value to increase and trade him to the highest bidder. It won't be the Phillies.

It sounds like we have it all figured out, then - Fire Manuel and replace him with Chris Coste. That should light a fire under these guys.

Maybe we could even find a way to get Abreu back so we can trade him again?

I'd take Cordero over Jon Rauch because of the familiarity of NL East opponents. And no worries, Iron Pig... we will pay through the nose for him. After all, we did trade a classy, #2 hitter to the Tigers for a Venezuelan murderer...

Tonight's game: I think the day off and the humiliation of Monday will actually do the Phillies some good, and for the Mets, this is a letdown situation coming off Monday's emotional win in the home opener. I think Perez is terrible and Eaton will be better, but the night will belong to the Phillies offense. Win No. 2 happens tonight.

I know i've been harsh on Coste, but I really do like his story and what he did last year. That being said, I can do without his self victimization. It's a bit much. He said it himself, he had a bad hammy and he heard PG saying we have Ruiz/Barajas and Werth can be the Emergency catcher. Coste just needs to hit the ball well in Ottawa, and get called up. We see the Phils bench is weak. It'll be sooner than later. Next he'll have Al Sharpton by his side.

yt: Please explain how the Phillies have more talent than Florida. Thanks.

Yeah, you're right Iron Pig. I'm kind of stingy on deals. I would do Madson + Carrasco now for Cordero.

I'm back and forth on Bourn. I love the defense, the speed, and the OBP, but I also think Vic is the CF of the future and Bourn just doesn't hit enough to be in a corner OF spot.

The best thing to happen to this club would be an injury to Barajas, and maybe another one to Rowand (although I know its bad for to root for people to get hurt)

Hey Clout, you're a numbers guy, we have a larger payroll, therefore we have more talent.

Well, I'm not yt, but here's a shot:

2006:
Phils, 86 Wins
Fish, 78 Wins

Considering that neither team changed its personel drastically and Florida has lost their best starter from last year, I think it's pretty easy to demonstrate the Phils have more talent.

ah! "personnel"

Tony: Brilliantly simple on the analysis of the talent evaluators comment. I assume you were being scarcastic.

Coste: Everyone seems to be a little warmer about Coste when Davthom is not bleeding heart on here. I would like Cost up as well, and I have never said otherwise. I would like to see if he can do it again. I dont think he can, but I'd be damn pleased if he did.

Oliver Perez: quintessential jackass.

Oliver Perez's exaggerated hop over the chalk he does after each inning really rubs me the wrong way, I don't care what team he is on.

is anyone else watching on mlb.tv? if so, is it laggggggging for you too...i missed the 1-2-3 top of the 1st because of all the stops and starts

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Yeah, call me crazy, but I'll be watching the game as usual, expecting a win this time.

MLB.TV is not laggy for me, which is unusual while I am at work. Helms already with a bobble at third - at least he made the play because of Slow-Duca's running.

VOR: that pretty sums up every Philly sports fan.

Having never really watched Eaton pitch before, I find his delivery weird? Like he doesn't put enough body into it.

*edit* pretty much

Talk about insult to injury.

kdon: Maybe I should be more precise. By talent, I mean players on the 25-man roster who are good now and on an upward trajectory as well as resources available in the minor leagues. I know you're on record as saying the Marlins won't win more than 70-75 games this year, but you are also on record as saying the Phillies don't have a bullpen problem and that Vic will hit .300/.350/.480.
In any event, I disagree that talent always equals wins.

Rowand Stinks, y do we continue to play him... give bourn a shot! anyone but that bum

Why didnt Bajaras just get hit by that pitch? Eaton has a better chance of getting a hit.

Also how many times have we seen this year, a pitcher walking the bases loaded only to have us leave em all on base

Let's just hit Burrell 8th. Shake it the hell up why don't we.

You know, consecutive strikeouts of Beltran and Delgado are nothing to sneeze at. Well, sneeze if you like, but the guy has some talent and won't be a complete disaster. Aside from his one season with the Rangers, in what's obviously a much tougher league, he put up perfectly respectable numbers and I would predict an E.R.A. in the mid to high four's.

Graph ^
^ \
^ \
Rowand for Linebrink \
\
\
============== (DEAD)

Argh!, that turned out different than it looked on here.

You think pitchers purposely walk the cleanup hitters to get to Helms/Rowand/et al?

Shoot, I would.

It's just a matter of time before we have a big inning tonight. Perez is wild.

Someone needs to make this guy pay for all the walks he's giving out. Unless he just keeps walking everybody. I hate the fact that a third of our lineup today is a guaranteed out.

Hey if we can't knock in the runs, the opposing pitchers will just have to walk us in!

Dear Aaron Rowand,

WHY ARE YOU SWINGING AT THE FIRST PITCH AFTER FOUR FREAKIN' STRAIGHT WALKS?????

Love,

The Other Kevin

Take a pitch Rowand you tard!

our 7-8-9 is murderer's row again tonight!! love these guys.

woohoo, early Bullpen night!

i would far rather have a weakness in the bullpen, than a questionable starting rotation.

You can tell that taking that walk just killed Rowand. Jesus, he's pathetic so far this season.

Rowand was almost walked twice in one at bat. 6 straight balls.

will uncle rod give us the moon swing??

Wow, that was some "battle" between Perez and Rowand. Perez was trying to walk him and Rowand was trying to K!

The Other Kevin took the words right out of my mouth. Aaron was killing himself to end the inning right there. Fortunately, Ollie didn't let him.

Should we call him Rod "Black Hole" Barajas?

praise jesus!!!

I think we just found out how we can win a game!

Wow, that ended spectacularly for Perez. Too bad we only got 3 runs on him.

although eaton is presumably no slouch with a bat (relative to just being a pitcher), this kind of situation really makes me miss randy wolf

if only the bottom of the lineup can perform this miraculously the rest of the season...

Take your seven walks and hop over the chalk one more time, jackass!

Finally somebody else starts sucking it up

clout, I know what you mean ability, but Florida isn't really that stacked. I mean, Sergio Mitre and Ricky Nolasco in the rotation? Jorge Julio as the closer? A guy whose never played above AA in CF? A Joe Borchard/Cosy ROss platoon in RF?

If the Phils entered the season with any of this crap you would evicerate them.

We don't need no stinkin' hits with RISP (when Oliver Perez is pitching).

Aaron Sele? What is this, 1997?

Make that 74 LOB through 8 games...and counting. Let's set the line at 80.5 -- anyone want to take the over?

Joe, you say you'd far rather have a weakness in the bullpen than a questionable starting rotation. I guess it depends on what you mean by questionable. If you have five subpar starters, than sure. But if by questionable you just mean questions about a couple of your starters, I'd take that over the bullpen, the reason being that your bullpen is involved in almost every game. For instance, I would rather be the Mets than us, as far as pitching goes. Glavine and Hernandez and Maine are going to be alright, and their bullpen's solid enough. Sure, a couple of their starters are question marks. but we, on the other hand, have a solid rotation but have literally no confidence in our bullpen's ability to hold a lead. Unless we're winning by 5 runs going into the 7th, that's always going to be an issue.

Tray, are you really saying you would trade the Phils entire pitching staff for the Mets'?

Glavine and El Duque are question marks as well.

The comments to this entry are closed.

EST. 2005

Top Stories

HardballTalk

Rotoworld News

Follow on Twitter

Follow on Facebook

Contact Weitzel

CSG