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Wednesday, April 18, 2007

Comments

Jason, do you think Jimy Williams will stop a bad situation from getting worse? Wasn't he the one in charge of getting the team to play better fundamentals in spring training? This team plays worse fundamental ball then a sandlot team.

I agree with gr that Manuel isn't the root cause here. but at this point, he's overstayed his welcome and I think last night shows that he knows it. maybe it's unfair that he's going to end up the only scapegoat, but he does deserve at least some of the blame.

since the owners and Gillick are untouchable - unfortunately - and someone needs to go down for the public's (rightful) anger, Manuel's gotta be the guy.

DK: I do, because how could it get worse? How would it be possible? The Phillies stink and Manuel says he can't do anything about it. Steady as she goes with Manuel, right? Not this time.

There needs to be a managerial change AND some personnel changes... OUT--- Madson,Lieber, and in june-- Barajas IN--ANYONE who knows how to pitch plus Chris Coste

In an ideal world, Manuel would be the Phils hitting instructor. If he is canned, I sincerely hope the Phils make him some sort of roving hitting instructor in the minors, similar to what he did before he was the manager.

They started 3-10 in 1997 so how is this the worst start in 20 years?

This season's poor start isn't an isolated incident, and because the players like him isn't a good enough reason to try to find excuse to keep Manuel around. He really hasn't improved at all upon a ball club that Bowa had playing just as well, even though everyone hated his guts. That being said, I'm sure there's ton of managers out there that the players would be happy to play for. I mean guys who can actually pull off a double switch without having to consult a calculator.

I for one would like to float Joe Girardi's name. The reigning NL Manager of the Year is a pretty nice young mind who obviously already has a report with Lieber, and could probably relate well to what is in a lot of ways, a pretty young team. Let's see if we can get some legs behind a rumor here...

Jason, I just don't want Williams. Joe Girardi would be a positive move. The fans need to start boycotting this team and if these idiot owners start to lose money maybe they will sell. Until these owners are gone this same old thing will keep going on. We need owners who care not ones who only care about making a profit.

DK: I don't care who it is, but it can't be Manuel anymore. It really can't.

I'd like Girardi too, but with his public scrapes with Florida's ownership, I can't imagine these jokers hiring him. If they do, that's a good sign.

Mark, there were no expectations in 97. Most of us here, except a few, actually bought into the "we are the team to beat" hype.

I agree with JW, anybody but Manuel. Girardi would be ideal but it won't happen. Just like Leyland would have been ideal.

I'll settle for Jimy "One M" Williams at this point. Or one of those really smart chimps who knows sign language. As long as he understands the double switch.

The Phillies FO won't sniff Girardi. It makes too much sense for them. They'll hire a puppet like Jimy Williams and be right back where we are now in 3 years.

Based on what we've seen from Phillies ownership, is there any reason to think that if Manuel gets fired that his replacement would come from outside of the organization?

At this point, the best thing that could happen would be for people to stop giving this franchise their money until the current ownership group decides that it's time to sell. But that won't happen any time soon, and I know that no matter how bad it got, I'd still be going to the games because I'm a Phillies fan and a baseball fan.

Anyway, what is Doug Glanville doing these days? I've often thought that he would make a good manager...

It can't be Manuel anymore. GR, Dave Kingman, and co. I hear you loud and clear- "Manuel isn't the root of the problem, and firing him would only be a quick fix". I agree wholeheartedly with that. However, he serves no purpose anymore. I don't want him to be the scapegoat, but I do want him fired. We can't release the entire 25 man roster, and firing Gillick right now isn't highly unlikely, so Manuel is first on the list of change. I don't hear people saying that the Phils instantly become playoff contenders when Manuel is fired...they just can't stand looking at his helpless face of losing any more...nor should we have to. Why keep him? What is so damn great about Manuel that he shouldn't be fired? C'mon, tell me. He simply needs to go!!!

to amend my points from the last thread, if joe gerardi wanted to manage here, i'd make every effort to get him. that's a no-brainer.

I'm sure Manuel needs to go but I don't think he will yet. Gillick will not blame him. Joe Girardi? I'd love to have him here. But this ownership will only hire a "yes" man for the job. Leyland should have been the manager and Manuel should have been the hitting coach. Leyland's not the manager 'cause he told Wade exactly what was worng with the team and Wade didn't like it. Manuel fell into the job as they didn't want another personality like Bowa. BTW, as much as I'd like Coste, he's not the answer for what's wrong on the field. As I've said before, there are too many marginal guys on the club. And you can't replace marginal guys with more marginal guys which is all they have. The problem is is Gillick. For a man of his experience and track record he's been a major disappointment and management will not spend anymore money. Forget this year. Anyone can see a major turnaround won't happen. Phans won't like it, but that's the way it is.

Jason and SJ a change for the sake of change will not change the fact that the outfield, third base and the bullpen sucks! We have a first baseman who is more worried about getting a better contract then Soriano and getting on the Letterman show then sucking it in and showing the owners he can carry this team on his back. He can not leave 6 men on base as he did last night, we expect that out of Burrell.

Girardi would be a great fit. A younger winner, tough, no ties to the organization. That's precisely why it will never, ever happen.

time to open the polls. will it be jimy williams or john russell?

JW: Hit the nail on the head on why Girardi won't happen.

Has anyone seen any organization (sports team, business, junior high student council) that is less capable of thinking outside the box than the Phillies? I haven't.

I believe that the culpability here is shared at many levels in the organization. From the pitching/hitting coaches all the way up through the pathetic excuse for management. Instead of talking about the fact that Kiteman wouldn’t fly in yesterday’s paper, maybe Giles should explain to all of us fans about the teams that did not win. This whole organization strikes me as one that is living in some kind of fantasy land where if they just wish hard enough and think good thoughts, this team is going to win. Cholly is just part of this group of delusional “baseball men”. Management seems more concerned with catchy gimmick nights than winning. Winning will put fans in the seats. When the Phils had that great year in ’93, tickets were hard to come by. As far as I am concerned, they can take their dollar dog nights and shove it.

Firing Cholly will only put a band-aid on the problem. You can also forget about Joe Girardi coming in to manage this club. There is no way the Phillies want someone that strong-willed and opinionated in the club house (regardless of how correct he may be). They didn’t hire Jim Leyland because he was too opinionated.

Blame can be spread- owners are at fault, Gillick is at fault, Manuel is at fault, the players are at fault.

Are there any legitimate candidates outside of Williams? I'd agree that is what probably will happen if Manual gets the boot, but let's play a little what if..? here. Who else is floating around right now that the FO would actually bring in?

Also, stjoe, absolutely love the Glanville idea, and I've definitely heard that he'd make a great manager. Let's get him on the bench first. Putting him at the helm at this point would be like throwing a lamb to slaughter. He's way to smart (and knowledgable about phils fans) to want anything to do with our current situation anyway.

Iron Pig: You're giving management too much credit. They're not even good at catchy gimmick nights. The Reading Phillies blow them out of the water in that department.

Glanville is so intelligent that I actually pictured him as a GM some day.

"Glanville is so intelligent that I actually pictured him as a GM some day."

Yeah, of a team smart enough to hire him. That list probably doesn't include any in eastern PA.

Is there anyway we can bring Darren Daulton in to manage? I mean if we're gonna play this poorly we mineaswell have a true philly at the helm. He'd be perfect, even if we lost 10 straight, he'd still have that "I'm going to outerspace soon" grin on his face.

It's agreed Doug Glanville as GM, John Russell as manager and Amaro Jr batboy.

Thought that I would never say this so soon, but the Phils have to fire Manuel by the end of week. I thought at the very minimum that Manuel deserved until the end of April. No more.

Cholly's outburst was the just the final straw. The true turning point for me was watching this team play last night. Not only was this team's performance poor yet again, they also were totally indifferent. First time all season I had really seen this team just quit after they were down 3-1.

Poor play is one thing but apathy is quite another. This team should have been fired up to play for several reasons:

1. At home
2. Key division rival
3. Two off days to clear their heads
4. Garcia's return from the DL
5. Some desperation to get back toward .500

Instead, the only Phils' player I saw playing with determination last night was Rollins. I give a pass to Garcia since it was his first start off the DL.

I am pretty skeptical that firing Cholly and replacing him with Lopes/Williams will result in a dramatic turnaround of any sort but Cholly has to go now. When your team quits on you at home this early in the season, a change needs to be made.

MG: You and I are on the same page. Last night's loss - the indifference, as you put it - was the final straw. They shouldn't be quitting two weeks into the season.

How long are people going to keep blaming managers and general managers and say to themselves, "Who is bring in this talent and where is it coming from?"
If you like all the whiffs now, just wail'll you see Mike Costanzo and Greg Golson.

Please - let's get off Charlie's case on this one. Howard Eskin deserved what he got, that man is a knucklehead. I'm not sure how Eskin is coming off as the good guy, and Charlie as the bad guy.

The Phillies stink right now, that's not Charlie's fault, and bringing in a new manager will do nothing to fix this.

Eskin obviously has some opinions, and he has a forum for them. I guess his influence is going down, so he's going to go down fighting.

IMO, the final straw in the was Manuel watch should have been his head-down reaction after the implosion in Shea last week. but last night works too.

and Walter...uh, the GM is supposed to be the guy who "bring in talent."

sean, I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't think this reaction is people siding with Eskin. I think this reaction is people's frustration with Manuel's inability to create a functional environment for the team.

the Eskin situation is a side effect of that, it's not the cause of anyone's anger.

It's hard to say who the manager is going to be. We all agree that Joe Girardi just won't happen because of his ability to bluntly tell the truth. On the other hand, I feel like the mix between players and manager can be hit or miss. I mean, the Red Sox (with an admittedly overall superior team in balance, payroll, and talent) clicked right after they signed Terry Francona, and we all know how he worked out for the Phillies. As much as I want Manuel out of there, I also want Gillick out, followed by his successor working out a firesale.

The concensus seems to be that Manuel must go ASAP.

Unfortunately, firing him now is admitting defeat on too many levels for the Front Office - 1, they have their perfect "yes man" already. 2, as long as fans continue to come out to support the team they see no need to make any real moves. 3, they'll never bow down to Eskin (and probably rightfully so - he thinks he's bigger than Philly sports already). 4, everyone is already factored into this year's budget and under contract.

That being said, if they are willing to eat crow on these points and fire Manuel, I'd bet 3 years salary that the replacement doesn't come from outside. They have 2 coaches with MLB management experience already under payroll and obviously past winning experience is not at the top of the job requirements here. It would cost FAR too much to bring in a Girardi from outside and as far as the FO sees it, the return on the investment isn't there (they'll still sell seats as soon as the team comes around under Williams or Lopes). Even though it is often ignored when we speculate about moves by this team, let there be no doubt, MONEY DICTATES ANY AND ALL DECISIONS MADE BY THE PHILADELPHIA PHILLIES!

I hate the Phillies.

I've been in favor of getting rid of Manuel for a while now (almost a full calendar year), but I have to say what's going on now is just sad.

Eskin is a dipsh*t, and doesn't have a tenth of the class or character of Manuel. Manuel is a very nice man who seems to be a great hitting coach, but who is tactically clueless. I just think he has some very set rules for managing, and that this costs the team a few games a year.

Right now, however, he is being scpaegoated for the failures of big-time players like Gordon, Myers, Utley, and Howard. That's all there is too it, scapegoating. The failure of these players is not his fault.

He may lose his job over this, but it will be the right move for the wrong reasons.

The funny part will be if the Phils take advantage of the Nats (twice) and Reds in the next few series and get a winning streak going. All of this will be spun into how Cholly "fired up" his team.

this isn't a team that can do a firesale. I don't think we have any tradable players other than Rollins, Utley, Howard, Hamels, and Myers (Geary, maybe last year, but he's been so bad this year that I don't think so). obviously those guys aren't going anywhere - Myers is the only one I could see being traded, but his value is so low right now that it's not remotely worth it. I guess you could justify it as another bad attitude dump, but that didn't work out so well last year, did it?

as for everyone else, they either have zero value (Lieber, Burrell) or are recent acquisitions. I don't know exactly what the rules are there, but I think it's safe to say that nobody's beating down our door with offers for Adam Eaton.

last year, this team had players who could bring interest in a firesale. and even then, we ended up with nothing. (okay, Matt Smith.) I just don't see the point with doing that for the 2007 Phillies.

WP, I think that's exactly what happens. unless he gets dropped today, he'll win a few games this weekend (relatively softer schedule, away crowds to relieve the pressure) and buy himself another month, maybe two.

coste will only improve this team!

he did very well with the pitching staff last season.
there's no good reason why he's not on the field for the majority of games this year! Plus, he gives good at-bats at the plate, and is valuable as a pinch hitter.

the barajas experiment should be over by now.

bring back COSTE.

Cholly likes to fight.. Ask Dallas Green.. I guess the next "icon" he goes after is the Phanatic. This team (and its manager) seem to be built to wait around for a 3-run HR to get excited.. The Earl Weaver method (with a hell of a lot more strikeouts than HRS) has placed Manuel in a cauldron from which there is no escape. Girardi is a dream.. just like Soriano, Sheffield, and Leyland.. Be prepared for another boring manager and a very frustrating summer

I think many of us need to take the rose colored glasses off and admit that this team was never as good as the off season hype had us believe. The team has three very good players in Utley, Howard and Rollins. What made us think that Myers could be a staff ace? He is a good pitcher but not a stopper. Freddy Garcia is a pitcher with a lot of mileage on his arm, 6 years in a row of 200 plus innings, with diminishing velocity. Hamels may become a true ace but I think it won't happen tomorrow. Moyer is what he is. Eaton was only signed after Wolf was lost. The bullpen needs no mention since it's been discussed here forever. The bench is a joke. The ad says feel the goosebumps it's more like hemorroids, a real pain in the ass.

I would like to ask Eskin why he never asked Andy Reid to publicly rip the players like Parcells, Coughlin, or Gruden after they stunk up the joint the first half of the year last season.

Sean: Eskin is a knucklehead, but so is Manuel. The man has proven to everyone on the blog and myself that he is incapable of making sound decisions. With that said he is only a fraction of the problem. What needs to happen is the owners (GILES), Dave Montgomery, Gillick, Amaro, etc. need to be eradicated from the organization. They are only there to make money and not to win. As long as people fill the stands, by caps and t-shirts, drink 5.50 beers, and buy tickets absoluetly nothing will change. I can't believe I bought tickets to 5 games this year. Those things aren't refundable are they?

Sunday Charlie has had a free meal ticket too long in a town with a team that has been breaking our hearts since the strike.

Yes, it is hard to blame a crappy bull pen and clutch hitting on a manager directly, but when circumstantially looking at things, Chuckles has to be held accountable.

DK,

For once, you and I agree. At least with your first sentence. I bought into they hype and predicted 92 wins. Still can happen, but I don't see it. This team is all hype, not a ton of talent. The team of 'C' players comment is correct.

I'm happy with Garcia and Hamels. The latter could be the ace sooner than we think. Trade Myers for a quality OF or arm (both?) now.

"Cholly is just part of this group of delusional “baseball men”."

I don't think Manuel is dellusional. I don't think he made it unknown he wasn't satisifed with the bullpen Gillick put together for him. He just wasn't going to come out and directly say that PG handed him crap.

As far as the bench is concerned, why did we need to let conine go? I figured he was a decent guy to have around, and is hitting pretty good for the reds so far. Not stellar, but hes 3-4 with RISP. Not too shabby.

This ownership will never understand that spending the money now will pay off dividends later. We should have been going after a legitimate 3B and a legitimate OF. I like vic too but c'mon. He would have ridden the pine for another year until rowand or burrell had departed ways.

If this ownership can't understand that in todays' game you either have to spend alot of money on your farm system, or alot of money on your FA's then we won't be seeing the playoffs for another twenty years.

And were the idiots for handing them our money. We stop paying, they will start to or sell the team to somebody who wants to. Is there any diehard phillies fans with about 500 million just laying around. I think thats about all it would cost.

I think I'd like Cholly as a person. If I sat next to him in a plane or at a bar, we'd probably be best of friends. However, I think his time is up. This team's performance is unacceptable.

JTS asks "Are there any legitimate candidates outside of Williams?" I would venture to say there are over 100 legitimate candidates. Did you ever notice when some two-bit college coaching job opens up and you get a list a mile long of legitimate candidates? I feel the same open season attitude should be used by the Phillies. Why limit it to Lopes or Williams?

The Phillies managerial position is a plum position. It should attract the best candidates. Why must we accept that the position is limited to those only within the organization right now? That would be short sighted.

As for the WIP guy, who cares? His signal doesn't reach where I live. I could give two rips about his status in Philly. Get the cane. Show Cholly the door. The Foghorn Leghorn show is not working. Why delay the inevitable? Let's go on with progress, not regress. Get a new manager.

Beard, Myers isn't getting us a quality OF OR a quality pitcher, let alone both. after the Abreu/Lidle fiasco of a trade last year, every GM in the league knows all he has to do is wait for Gillick to get desperate and settle for a grab-bag of failed low-level prospects.

I'm not buying that ae. Ricciardi ALLEGEDLY offered Rios for Myers or Hamels.

AE - you think Burrell is untradeable? He's owed 14M next year and then a FA: I could see the Phillies getting some B/C prospects (no worse than what they got for Abreu) if they're willing to pay, say, 30% of his contract for next year...

Many people are willing to admit that Manuel is a good hitting instructor, problem being he's actually our manager. Not firing makes no sense. Regardless of your standpoint on Manuel and his level of blame, it's time for a change because that how sports organizations work when everything comes crashing down...we're not at a low point. To keep him onboard and wait the the players to win a few games and say "see, Charlie is a good manager" is just plain stupid.

Stop giving these owners your hard earned money!!! Go see the Camden River Sharks they will give you more bang for your buck and more beer for your money.

Beard, I never heard Ricciardi bring up Myers' name, although I could be wrong. in any case, now that Rios is hitting pretty well and Myers has a 9.39 ERA, I wouldn't be surprised if JP changed his mind.

Lister, that's exactly my point. the players we got for Abreu are completely worthless and will never make it to the major league team (excepting Matt Smith). plus, you're not accounting for the fact that Gillick had to throw in Lidle just to get his hands on the Yankees' garbage.

Carson is right. Cholly is a good hitting instructor, unfortunately, he is sitting in the Manager's seat. We need a change.

I doubt PG is ready to admit just yet that his goofy decision to keep Cholly and bring in a bunch of ex-managers to help him do his job was another mistake.

Some of us pointed out last fall that this decision doomed the team for 2007.

Couple of points:

1. Eskin has a huge ego and it irritates me that he tries to become part of the story instead of reporting it too often. Still, Eskin is a good reporter with some excellent sources. Eskin often breaks stories before anyone else in Philly or at the national media outlets.

2. Maybe the Phils get an external candidate but I doubt it. Some of the posters here are delusional if they think there is a huge number of candidates who want a possible lame duck coaching position during the middle of the season. Unfortunately, Lopes or Williams is going to be the next manager.

3. Some of the blame has to go on Gillick for this mess. Not only did he not get the job done yet again this offseason (failed to trade Lieber, didn't acquire any bullpen help, left Cholly with a weak bench) but he left Cholly in an awkward position by bringing in Lopes and Williams. Gillick should have either made a clean break or only made a few minor changes. Instead this team is in managerial limbo right now.

Lake Fred do you think this team is remotely as good as the Braves, Mets or even the Marlins? I don't see a new manager changing this right now. Anyway, these owners will not pay Manuel and another manager for this season. Manuel will be replaced when his contract runs out. These owners DO NOT CARE! Bring back Kiteman and the Great Wallenda.

like I said, I wasn't sure. but also like I said, that was before Myers started off the year with a 9.39 ERA.

I think this team has some superstars- Rollins, Utley, and Howard mixed in with some nice solo acts that need a leader to bring them together and function as a freakin' TEAM!

I'm not an Eskin fan, but I don't really think he was in the wrong this time. I have a hunch Manuel staged this to sound passionate. If so, he sounds like a bigger idiot.

Yes, Myers has a 9.39 ERA. It's been 3 games. Game 1 wasn't too bad, either, so it's been 2 rough outings.

My prediction: Cholly is out before tonight's game, Lopes is named the interim manager, and then eventually named the manager for '07. (I say this primarily because I had 4/18 in the "see ya later Cholly" pool).

my point isn't that Myers is bad, it's that his value in a trade has plummeted, based mainly on the fact that every GM in the league saw how Gillick poorly dealt with a firesale trade in the Abreu/Lidle situation last year. two months ago, Ricciardi was aiming high by asking for Myers with Rios. today, Gillick is aiming high by asking for Rios with Myers. and I'm sure that Ricciardi would respond by asking for Myers plus Carrasco, or Happ, or whoever.

and I could be overstating the significance of the Abreu deal last year. but if I were a GM, that is what would be going through my head when Gillick calls me up to talk trade.

I know what you're trying to say. Just a different situation. Everyone knew Abreu was on the market and the Phils wanted to dump that salary. Few teams could shell out the dough. Whatever.

there must be more intimidating people to cave in to than Eskin. Eskin, what a opportunistic putz.

check this article of the all time baseball intimidators. pretty funny.

http://maximonline.com/slideshows/index.aspx?imgCollectId=173&src=jh7

Why do people want to trade Myers for .50 on the dollar? He has had a grand total of 3 starts. I just don't get some of the posters here sometimes.

I know you guys aren't very high on WIP, but I think they could be the solution. Let them stage a boycott on the Phillies, no more going to the games. Let CBP look like Dolphin Stadium. I think that having 610 organize it is the only way that a boycott could work. Then maybe we could get those assclowns to sell the franchise and we could get someone who actually cares.

Also, who else will be turning on Eskin this afternoon to see what he has to say?

Why trade Myers now? Granted he will never be an ace but should be able to get about 14 wins a year. After this season Garcia, Leiber and maybe Moyer will be gone. There is no one in the minors who can step in next year and be a factor. They will not spend big bucks on free agent pitchers. They can sign a free agent outfielder next off season when the pickings look to be much better then this year's crop was. This season is lost, only 2 teams have made the playoffs after this bad a start.

Coach Pop-Pop, needs to retire.

Get a good hungry player/manager in there, Like a Joe Girardi. Maybe he can catch, since our catcher stinks too.


LF - "The Phillies managerial position is a plum position." I am sorry, but I must disagree with you. It would be a plum position if management was committed to winning by putting the best product on the field. It is abundantly clear that they are not.

I wonder what Cito Gaston is up to these days?

ZT - Why not? It worked (to some extent) with the Eagles (Bramman - sp?) and the Sixers (Katz).

The only rationale for trading Myers is that they have nobody else anybody wants.

/nor do I support "trading him for .50 on the dollar".

"This season is lost, only 2 teams have made the playoffs after this bad a start."

Not sure if you're getting that from somewhere else, but Jayson Stark's quote was 'They're 3-9 -- and only two NL teams since the Bobby Thomson Giants have started 3-9 or worse and made the postseason ('74 Pirates, 2000 Giants).'

No clue on how many AL teams made it after that kind of start, so I did a quick check. In 2005, the Yankees were 4-8 after 12 games & they won the division. In 2002, the Angels were also 4-8 after 12 games and they won the World Series. In 2001, Oakland started 2-10 and they got the wild card.

Eskin is a worthless, meddling POS who needs to stop poisoning the region with his negativity.

Granted, he has access to a lot of inside info and breaks a lot of stories, but his general attitude towards Philly sports epitomizes the Philly reputation.

It's only two weeks into the season...we cant have a well known, widely heard voice leading the charge against our team. He should be ashamed of himself, not only for his disposition, but also for sporting that fur coat at the Linc a few years ago. Fur is murder.

Hawk, I may have left out the NL part but what about this organization makes you think they can turn this around? Clout was right when he said that the Abreu trade did not get them in the wild card race last year it was the weak teams they played the last 6 weeks. That is the worst thing that could have happened, it got us thinking this team was better then it actually was.

I think you are missing the point with the Abreu Deal. What the Abreu deal it was larger really was.... 4 for 5

Abreu and Lidle and Floyd and Gio Gonzalez
for

Garcia, minor leaguers, shortstop-3B C.J. Henry, lefthander Matt Smith, catcher Jesus Sanchez and righthander Carlos Monasterios

Henry was the 17th Pick of the 2005 Draft
Montasterios has a fastball clocked at 97 mph.

Garcia is the Key we will see if he is worth Abreu. People forget last year we had only 2 starters who were not injured and had to throw everyone and the kitchen sink in there. Our Rotation is quite solid compared to last year, let's hope it starts eating up innings.

I agree with Willard Preacher that the FO cannot fire Manuel now without appearing to have caved to a certain radio personality.

There is a scene in "All the President's Men" where Ben Bradley tells how he broke the story that LBJ intended to fire J. Edgar Hoover. The next day, LBJ named Hoover FBI Director for life. His colleagues siad: "Ben, you fu___ed up." Bradley said, "I wasn't wrong, but I f___ed up."

I don't think we stuck with Charlie for life, but perhaps longer than would have been the case had not a certain radio personality tried to worm his way into the spotlight again.

Agreed that this is likely the final straw that will do Manuel in. It couldn't look worse: first your team quits on you, and then you lose control in the press room and have to be hauled off in diapers with tears of rage streaming down your inflamed cheeks. This is not the way the Phillies ought to be represented.

The irony of the confrontation Manuel was pushing for is that here is is getting all riled up about being scapegoated - and there he is doing the exact same thing with Eskin. Manuel clearly had it boiling over in him, and was just looking for an excuse or an outlet to unleash his frustration. I happen not to agree with Eskin that some kind of high school football coach's tirade is not going to accomplish anything - but even that would have looked a hundred times better than a manager displacing his anger onto a talk-show host. That just shows the world you have no idea how to conduct yourself like a professional. kdon, you may feel however you want about Eskin, but Manuel's behavior was positively boorish, and he cannot be defended as some innocent, gentle creature of high class and character who was somehow provoked into transforming into King of the Rednecks. The Phillies organization should be flat-out embarrassed by what happened last night - not just on the field, but underneath the stands.

Jason is right: it is inordinately unlikely that this ship will right itself enough under Manuel that his precarious status won't remain an ongoing issue and negative presence with this team. I understand that firing a manager only a few weeks into the season may appear reactionary - and I also very much recognize that Manuel is far from the source of what ails this franchise, and that replacing him won't effect any miracles - but given the circumstances, it's the most appropriate thing to do, and I'd be surprised if even Amaro and Gillick aren't recognizing that.

It's well past time for Manuel to go. He should have never been hired to begin with. It's time to part ways before things get even worse. While Gillick has not given him as much to work with this year, Charlie has done nothing inspirational to keep his job. He tries nothing. He makes a lot of managerial mistakes. He gets in a rut with players/misuses players. He says the same damn thing over and over and over again. While i am not a huge Eskin fan, I think he was 100% correct last night. That being said, I don't know what it will take before management actually makes a change. Hell, they couldn't handle the Brett Myers situation right, let alone this new fiasco.

SirAlden: How do you figure that? They said they could afford Garcia AND Soriano. Your implication that money saved from Abreu=Garcia is baloney.
P.S. Do you know anything about Henry?

J-Roll reverted back to his evil twin in that AB.

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