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Wednesday, March 21, 2007

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Thanks, man, I just came over from swing and a miss and needed some sunshine. This is just what the doctor ordered.

"If Bourn is better than Garcia, take Bourn.

7-5 DP on a ball hit to deep left! Bourn just keeps on making a case for himself to head north on March 29.

And I am excited about the Phils!
As a baseball fan, if your not at least mildly excited about your team's upcoming season, I'd suggest a visit to the Self-Help section at your local Barnes & Noble.

It looks like Freddy Garcia is hurt. He was removed from tonight's game after 1 inning. Not trading Lieber for bullpen help might turn out to be a big deal.

Hey Jason, I guess the Phightin's didn't win and that's why you didn't give the result of WS, lol.

I was considering becoming a member over at Baseball America. Can any of you guys that are members tell me if it's worth the money a college student could put out?

Garcia taken out of tonight's game with tightness in right bicep.

Well, that would be great but I think they're wrong. What's the last time a team with a bullpen as crummy as ours even made the playoffs? I don't know. But anyway, in RSB's little disquisition (that a word?) about the comparative values of Hayes and Burrell, I think the flaw in his argument, besides assuming that it's always better to have a range of talents instead of one great tool, is that he's not counting on-base percentage, or the ability to draw a walk, as a tool. Which it is, just like contact hitting, power, speed, etc., and Burrell does draw a lot of walks somehow. Damned if I know how, he swings at bad pitches, strikes out a lot, pitchers don't seem to fear him much, but he does, and that, I'd suggest, is what makes him a more valuable player than Hayes.

Tray - in that case, don't forget to check Hayes' walk totals sometime. He was runner-up for the league lead in walks in two seasons, and only struck out over 100 times once.

Is bicep tightness considered serious? Garcia's ERA and velocity this spring is cause enough for concern. And speaking of ERA - there's just no way the Phils can allow Castro to make the team. He's just been hammered all month. I don't mean to rain on the BA parade, but it's not looking so rosy from my angle.

Freddy topped out at 85mph. Being taken back to Clearwater to be checked out... I think Leiber just stopped pouting.

Btw, i'm trying to think of something less relevant than this von hayes vs. pat burrell discussion, but i can't

Damn. The only thing I really cared about was everyone making it through spring training healthy (or in Gordon's case as healthy as can be expected). Hopefully it is just a precaution on Garcia.

Does anyone else think that this Garcia "injury" is a negotiating ploy by Gillick because he's screwed the pooch on negotiations to trade Lieber so far?

Eddie S.: No. The insurance companies would take the Phillies to court faster than you can say "Elmer BeFuddled."

The last crummy bullpen World Series winner was the DBacks in 2001. I mean, seriously, Byung Hung Kim? Talk about a career season. Their opponents had 37 saves compared to the 34 for the Snakes. How did that career turn out for Bret Prinz?

Von Hayes v. Burrell: I just wanted to say that since K-don and Clout went on this speculative history debate about who was the better Phillie, I had to check out the stats. Hayes does not have near the power of Burrell, but if you consider walks (I realize Burrell walks a lot), stolen bases, I would have to say that Hayes was the better overall player (purely based on stats, mind you, and of course I understand that this is a comparison of two different eras).

Dave Hollins: The more interesting result of my Hayes v. Burrell search was a bit of knowledge about our former 3B. I was totally unaware that the Seattle Mariners traded David Ortiz (Big Freaking Papi) to the Red Sox for Dave (I love you, but not enough to give up Big Papi) Hollins. At least we have not made a trade that bad (recently). I'm sure there is some trade the Phils made 7-8 years ago that probably rivals this, but in hindsight, wow, that is a huge shocker.

Mike H., Byung Hyung Kim also lost one of the WS games giving up 2 jacks.

Parker: Ortiz signed with the Red Sox as a free agent once he was non tendered by the Twins.

Umm...OK, here's something more relevant

Phils send Jon Lieber to bullpen
By Todd Zolecki
INQUIRER STAFF WRITER
CLEARWATER, Fla. - It's official: The Phillies have moved righthander Jon Lieber into the bullpen.

For real, link is on the right. I imagine Jason will have something up soon.

I imagine the hysterics will come from the usual suspects, but I think Lieber will be fine, both physically and mentally.

Over the course of a month or so, the difference between him and Borowski or Dotel is zip.

Nah. Probably tomorrow.

And, uh, "the pleasure." Not "to pleasure."

Moving on ...

Really Jason, you don't spend all of your waking hours updating posts? Shame!

we are F'd on Freddy Garcia. DAMMIT!

CANT WE EVER CATCH A BREAK?

Leiber to bullpen just in time to take Garcia's spot in the rotation to start the season. Lovely.

kdon: Now you want Lieber as a closer like Dotel & Borowski are? With Sanches & Condrey as setup? Yipes!

eddie,
dont you think the twins really gave up on him?

Paul: To say the least. As soon as he went to Boston their hitting coach at the time, Ron Jackson I believe, fixed his swing quick and then the rest is history. Seriously, we complain about some of the stupid moves we make from time to time, but the Ortiz mistake is right up there with Santana having to go through the Rule 5. So I guess the Twins kind of evened out because there would be no way they would have been able to keep Ortiz and Santana if they were lucky enough to not have let Ortiz go.

To get back to the Phils, would anybody still trade Lieber if the right trade came along for a bullpen piece, such as the rumor going around with the Phillies West (a.k.a. the Chicago White Sox)? If such a scenario occurred who do you guys think would end up being our Fifth Starter? Happ? Castro? Maybe even Bisenius?

Did the Phillies medical team examine Garcia after the trade? I recall he had some shoulder problems last year. Biceps is different of course, but it would be ironic if Borowski is healthy (and so far he is) and Garcia wasn't.

Yes a physical was done. It's mandatory.

No clout, I want Gordon as my closer with Geary and Madson as my set-up guys and $10M spent on qulity starting pitchers, not journeymen relievers. I know you have serious difficulty reading other people's posts, but try and keep up buddy.

Let's wait till at least April 4th before declare Borowski a better pickup than Garcia.

Boy, I hate being right, or at least precient. After saying it was a good insurance policy to keep Lieber as a reliever (in the last thread), Garcia goes lame. Damn, I hate being right! (watch out my head may explode).

In all seriousness, even if we trade Lieber now, his price just went up. With FreddieG ailing and a question mark, can the Phils afford to trade Lieber now, not knowing how serious FreddieG may be hurt?

I think not.

Geary and Madson as setup and Gordon as closer is what you'll get. I hope you're right and the bullpen will be just fine, but you're in the minority on this one.

Lost in all the concern about FreddieG's health is the fact tha Fabio got knocked around again.

AAA starter.

Brito, 1 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 1K. Unless he has a major meltdown he makes the team.

Condrey also pitched well, too - 2 IP, 1 H, O R, 2K.

Just need to take a wait-and-see with Garcia's injury. Unlike the issue with Gordon last week, I am not going to spaz out about Garcia.

guys,

the season hasn't even started yet. Please relax...for at least a moment. PG is NOT the worst GM and the bullpen isn't doomed...yet. sit back, have a beer, or even go on a date. The season hasn't started!!!

Jason- Do us a favor and don't ever be so full of optimism that it's spilling out your ears -- you jinxed Garcia.

Just kidding, obviously. It is good to read something like that. Gillick probably wants to 15-Day-DL Garcia, get Lieber 3 starts, and trade him to Milwaukee for Bernie Brewer...

AWH, one inning of scoreless relief is enough to make Brito a 'lock' to make the team? I hardly think so.

Is it possible the Sox knew what they were doing when they unloaded Garcia?

It's comforting to know we aren't the only ones sounding the alarm. Salisbury's column this morning is a supreme downer. And he's wondering right along with me about the White Sox and Garcia.

I went to bed last night thinking "man we've got 6 decent starting pitchers, with 1 to trade" and now I wake up to read one of our workhorses is hurt...crap!

RSB, don't be so short sighted. All they care about as far as Brito is concerned is his health. He pitched wihtout pain, that's all that matters. Everyone on this blog has worn out the discussion already on the utility of ST stats (Albert Pujols is hitting .222 - should the Cards send him to AAA?), so let's not beat a dead horse. He's demonstrated in the past that he can do an adequate job in relief getting out MLB hitters. He's a lefty. Any questions? I'll be very surprised if he doesn't go North.

Speaking of Pujols, I love this quote:

""I'm fine with it. Obviously, I don't feel good what I'm hitting. I don't feel I'm where I want to be. But there's (almost) two more weeks. I'm happy the way I'm swinging the bat because I'm driving the ball the other way when they're pitching me away. I'm staying back on the off-speed pitches."

Driving the ball the other way. I wonder if Pat Burrell is listerning.

Link here:

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/5B167E6CD4561B47862572A50011A70B?OpenDocument

Carson, I went to bed last night thinking "thank God we didn't trade Lieber yet". We still have a good five man rotation even if someone got hurt.

Looking from the outside in with no emotion is the best way to get an evaluation. Lets take the advice from the bible and rejoice in being a Phils fan. The pen may not be the greatest but the overall team is still very good. The Phils deserve their high rating, they are a big chance.

Gotta love Salisbury at the Inky. He must read beerleaguer. We've been discussing at length the problems with the pitching since the beginning of ST. Now he finally writes an article about it.

The funny thing is, I didn't learn a thing in his article I hadn't read here the last 2 weeks.

That's how most sports columnist are, they are good at pointing out the obvious. It is only ST and i'm not jumping ship for a while but the bullpen hasn't been good at all and now starting pitching is starting become a little bit of a concern with this Garcia news. Every team has there weaknesses, the ones who win are the ones that can overcome them. Unfortunately the Phils haven't been that kind of a team for a long time. I'm optimistic though that is going to change this year.

First chance to Lieber work out of the pen today.

Some positives with all the gloom on here today: Jimmy Rollins has been on base in 14 of 15 games this ST with .479 OBP and tied for first in NL with 10 BBs. Shane Victorino is tied for 2nd in majors with 22 hits. Michael Bourn is 2nd in ML with 15 RS. The Phils bullpen has ERA of 2.67 in last 6 games (27 IP).

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