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Tuesday, March 06, 2007


How sad. I wonder if he resorted to this because he wasn't recovering from his injuries fast enough.

David Bell already ranked as my most hated Phillie of all-time...this brings it to a whole new level.

And if they were for performance enhancement, where the hell is the enhancement? I'm still waiting for it!

Every time I read an article like this, I find out something new about the rules on testing, and I'm surprised at how uncomprehensive it is. The revelation from this article that most players associations preventing blood test is another new one. I don't care how many Ryan Howards you get, if the sport's participants aren't prepared to stand up and be tested, you will not build confidence in a sport.

Gee, I wonder if his stint in SF had anything to do with it.

He and Franklin might have gotten the same stuff.

Even more shocking:

The Phillie Phanatic was attacked Saturday morning by 93.3 WMMR DJ and Sixers' PA announcer Matt Cord's dog Scout. Cord was on air covering the line at the Wachovia Center box office, where tickets for The Police, playing this summer at Citizens Bank Park, went on sale, according to the PHILADELPHIA DAILY NEWS.

The Phanatic came outside of the Wachovia Center to start giving stuff away, when the mutt lunged at the lovable green goofball, prompting a man in line to shout that the dog "must be a Mets fan." The Phanatic retreated inside the Wachovia Center until Cord safely put Scout back in his car. Cord says that the dog is great with people and other dogs, and that he can't say why she went after the Phanatic, who was not injured by the canine.

Also, Burrel was wrapped up in ice after yesterdays game. Lower back problems this year?

Can't wait.

Oh yeah - Bell is garbage. He should have trippled his dose, the amount he was taking didn't do the trick...

Bell was obviously getting ripped off with a placebo...dumb bastard!

Jamie Moyer is my dad

I hope Nunez reserves some of these hits for the regular season, he only get about 13 a year and he's used up about 7.

I hate to resurrect a comment from the last thread, but:

"How bad does your farm system have to be for you to be unable to call up 25yo SP who could pull a 5.50 era for $350k?"

I don't know, how did Gavin Floyd and Ryan Madson do last year?

Good point ae, for that matter how about about Cole Hamels, maybe we should just send Cole back to AAA and keep Lieber for 7.5 mil.

Lieber is done, a team with a legit chance near the deadline wouldn't give us pennys on the dollar last year, now people this we're getting Rios for him. It is time to get a grip, they don't want to pay him, and they will move him for peanuts before long.

having your company's performance-enhancing drugs linked to David Bell can't be good for business.

Can anybody post Buster Olney's Insider article on Hamels saying "he thinks he can get 20 wins"? Thanks.


Lieber still comes through in Aug. and Sept. and always has been a better late-season pitcher (something he attributes to his weight, funny enough). This is something the phils should keep reminding people around trade time and increase his value.

yt, there's a hell of a lot of room between worthless and gets you Alex Rios. Lieber can easily pitch 200 innings with a 4.5ish ERA, especially if he's traded to a team in a pitchers' park. he's only got one year left on him and his salary isn't unreasonable. lots of teams would kill to have that as their 4/5 starter.

obviously that doesn't mean he gets you Rios straight up. but he does have value in the right trade.

Very true Will, but the question is: What will the Phils do with him until the trade deadline?

Best case scenario (and i hate to wish injury on anyone, but) a SP goes to in ST and we deal him for something, because I really doubt they want to carry his 7.5 into this season.

Aside from Lieber, Burrel and Rollins who else is left sitting on an Ed Wade contract?

HCG is not a performance enhancing drug. Its primary purpose in men is as a fertility treatment. Specifically, it stimulates the production of testosterone in the testes. It's sometimes used in conjunction with steroids to counteract the drop in natural testosterone production that occurs.

Linking him to just HCG use is nothing like linking him to HGH or an anabolic steroid.

I don't know anything about David Bell personally. Maybe he and his wife were having trouble conceiving.


I think that's all of them. Rollins contract was actually pretty well constructed: he stays around $7-8Mill for the remainder of the contract (2010).

BTW, I agree with the problem of what to do with him now. I was only arguing your no-value-at-trade-deadline point.

Fletch is correct, and thanks for the link and details. HCG itself is not a performance-enhancing drug, but it counter-balances the side-effects of anabolic steroids. The red flag is that he ordered the stuff from the network of clinics that are being investigated.

Wonder if the annoucement on Bell has anything to do with him taking a year off supposedly to deal with "back issues?"

Somewhere, Roger Dorn is silently weeping.

Heres the ESPN Olney article Doc
.In print, the words seem jarring: Cole Hamels, a 23-year-old with 23 major league starts, said Sunday he expects to win 20 games this season. For Hamels, he said the expectations are "20 [victories] every year."
But maybe you had to be in the room to know he wasn't bragging, that this was really all about goal setting and about currying belief in what he can achieve, if he applies himself correctly. And Hamels appears to be doing everything he can to achieve those 20 victories: early arrivals at the park in Clearwater, Fla., 90 minutes to two hours every day in cardio work, a dip into an ice tub to help treat his aching back.

He is 6-foot-4 and seems to have the lean, angular strength of a mountain climber, and on Sunday he completely controlled the Yankees over three scoreless innings. He looks absolutely prepared to be a difference maker in the NL East this season.

Brett Myers has developed into a steady, front-of-the-rotation pitcher, and starters Freddy Garcia and Jamie Moyer are plow horses, usually consistent and unspectacular; Jon Lieber is similar in the way he works. Adam Eaton, the free agent signed during the offseason, sometimes shows great stuff but must stay healthy.

But Hamels is the kind of talent who can lift a team from the pack to a division champion, the way Francisco Liriano did last season for the Twins. It's evident this is something Hamels believes he is capable of doing, if he applies himself, if he is responsible.

Hamels holds himself accountable for not working hard in the past. Asked about his reputation as a pitcher who could not stay healthy, he evenly replied, "I brought that on myself, and I have to correct it."

Twice this offseason, shortstop Jimmy Rollins has said he thinks the Phillies are the team to beat, and Hamels said he fully supports Rollins. When you first hear that kind of talk, Hamels said, "At first, it catches you off guard. ... There are things that you think but can't say. But hey, he said it. It's out there."

Rollins believes in the Phillies, and Hamels believes in the Phillies and Cole Hamels.

Twenty victories? It's not an idle boast.

I going to disagree with a comment on the previous thread in which Billy Mac said "Bourn is a similar player to Shane Victorino."

Bourn is far more patient at the plate has a far better BB/K ratio. He also knows how to steal bases. He's at least as fast as Vic on the basepaths and is as good a fielder, although with less of an arm.

Bourn's career minor league OBP is .379, Vic's is .343. Vic has a little more pop .414 SLG to .393 for Bourn. But Bourn's SB and BB/K numbers are far superior.

Bourn, based on his skill set, minor league stats and age (24), is far more likely to be a productive everyday player (and leadoff hitter) than Victorino.

I am psyched that Hamels really seems focused. Either way, if the Phils are going to win 90+ games this year and actually make the playoffs, they need at least 1 starter to really break through.

I am willing to bet that either Myers or Hamels this year wins at least 16 games or more. Less optimistic though about this team making the playoffs though.

Karim Garcia is getting a lot of looks so far, but then again, so are Brent Abernathy and Brennan King. Here's hoping it's the start of a beautiful Ottawa friendship.

I don’t really understand the Victorino dynamic. It seems that at every turn he performs, and yet every prediction on him is that he won’t.

He’s 26, has good speed, good range as an OF, and an arm that makes runners think twice about the extra base, yet he is widely considered to be a marginal player.

His size and pedigree seem to continually out-weigh his performance. He’s like the anti-Burrell – one guy should be able to everything, and does nothing in crunch time, the other shouldn’t be able to anything, and comes through in clutch.

Maybe it is just my natural Philly tendency toward rooting for the underdog, or the fact that I identify with the little guy (I’m 5’8”) but I think eventually people will need to acknowledge that the kid can play.

yt, IMO the problem is that the Phillies are trying to sell him as a right fielder. he just doesn't have the offensive production to play right field. and in a relatively small park like CBP (as opposed to, say, Dodger) his defensive talents are less important. if we had a productive right fielder (and I'm not naming any names) and were playing Victorino in CF, I don't think anyone would complain about him.

ae, did I read Bobby Abreu's name in between the lines?

Tracking the Phillies spring training games is like watching last year's 76ers games, i.e. the Philly opponent comes storming back in the latter portion of the game.

is anyone else listening to this mess?

That is valid ae, I hate to see Rowand or Vic go, but in a park like CBP Burrell could bring a lawn chair out for the top of each inning with those two guys. Heck add ten feet to the center field wall, and that play Rowand made last season is just a nice catch, maybe he was surprised by how little room he had.

Bucs with 5 in the 9th to tie the game at 9-9. Phils with 5 errors today.

I'm listening to "this mess" and while it's sensible to dismiss spring games as meaningless it's also distressing that the Phillies' leading advertised weakness -- the bullpen -- is coming to play early and often in these meaningless games.

It's nice to see that Michael Bourn's basepath speed is again making a difference late in a game.

yt: Quickie Quiz. How many full seasons has Victorino played as an everyday player? Answer: None.

Before we talk about his "performance" as an everyday rightfielder, let's see what that performance is. Based on his performance last year, he's a fine 4th outfielder who might be league-average in CF as a regular. In right, he'd be well below league average, probably in the lower quarter of starters.

Given that the 9th inning D looked like this

Bourn, CF
Sandoval, SS
King, 3B
Simon, 1B
Roberson, RF
Farnsworth, P
Beattie, 2B
Budde, C
Calloway, LF

And these are the errors -

E: Bourn (1, fielding), Simon (1, fielding), Sandoval 2 (3, fielding, fielding), Beattie (1, fielding).

I won't lose sleep. But if we see any of the guys listed here getting time this season, then we are in deep trouble. As it stands your looking at AA All-star team there.

more like a Little League all-star team, except for the Bourn Supremacy


My comment about Vic is regards to the comparrison to Bourne, and I stand by it.

With all the "toolsy" draft pick sludge we have gumming up our minor leagues, we end up with a guy that the Padres didn't want, who is a more complete more motivated player then anything we have right now.

Bourne has done nothing at the ML level, and is already be annointed as Vic's superior? To me that is silly.

The guy hit .287 in 500+ AB last season. 19 2b and 8 3b.

He lacks power, but with two outs in the bottom of the ninth with a man on second, do you want him or Burrell at the plate? Or maybe Bourne or Roberson would be your choice?

The line from today's pitchers is icky. Castro and Smith getting shelled.

Bisnesius looks like he may make the trip north.

Bourne also lost a fly ball (I suppose in the sun.) This is the ballplayer Clout thinks should be out ther in lieu of Victorino. Didn't Vic win the most valuable player in the minors. And he did have a pretty darn good last half of year. To me he looks like a darn good ballplayer who deserves to be starting and not as a 4th outfielder like Clout mentions.

Bourn sucks, that's all there is to it. He really went down-hill after his 04 season (when he stole 57 bases).

yt: It was the Dodgers who didn't want Victorino back.
Carson David Bell is your most hated Phillie? Come on you can do better then that.

Karim continues to hit. I think he has the potential to be productive this year.

Thanks Rev. Vic had a cup of coffee w/ SD in 2003, so I guess i got confused there. But he was a rule 5 that was refused when offered back right?

That is correct yt.

Smith got hit around. for sure. Castro did not however. He only allowed one earned run and had errors by Bourn and Sandoval direct contribute to his outing. he was fine. So was Flash, Moyer, Geary and Bisenius. Smith was victimized by a Sandoval error but was not good as well

fljerry: Is English your second language? I didn't write that Bourn should start ahead of Vic. I wrote that Bourn projects as a better ballplayer than Vic with more skills. So far, his minor league performance bears this out. Check the stats. But he certainly may not be ready this season, likely can use at least another half season in Triple A.

Ace: Yeah, you're right, who needs a quality defensive centerfielder with a .360 OB, who stole 45 bases at AA and AAA last season while hitting .280. LOL!

yt: Vic had 415 ABs so you're only 100+ off! I'm not saying he's a bad ballplayer. I'm saying he's below average in RF compared to the rest of ht league. If he winds up the everyday starter there, we'll revisit my view at season's end, assuming you still post here then.

Looking ahead, i'd like to see rowand stick around. I'm sure he would be comfortable playing pretty much anywhere in the OF, so thats not a problem i don't think. When bourn is ready and we can get rid of burrell(who cares what we get as long as they pickup the contract) i think an OF of Bourn, Vic, and Rowand would be pretty awesome.

I stand correct clout, 505 is was the career number, but 415 is not a 100+ off, so I guess we are both a little numerically challenged today.

I can't tell the future, but I like the way the guy plays the game, and I think it will be real interesting to see how the increase in hustle and fielding skills balances against the loss of power hitting that Abreu provided.

Given the downward slope of bobby since his HR Derby win, I feel pretty good with Vic out there.

Gary Sheffield was the first one to label this HGH-investigation a witch hunt, and I'm inclined to agree. This is Tabloid Baseball. I'm already good and sick of it. David Bell no longer plays for the Phillies. By all accounts, he's a smart enough guy not to have ordered anything illegal to be shipped to the Phillies' clubhouse in 2006. I am sickened by the manifest speculation that goes on - and will no doubt continue for the next several years - regarding the names that are *alleged* by specious sources. This is one instance where I have to say, innocent until proven guilty. If, in the case of a Bonds or McGwire, the verdict is as plain as day, it's one thing. But I don't want to hear people's names dragged through the mud unless we *know* the facts. It's grotesque.

I think David Bell should get his money back on those 'roids. They obviously didn't do him much good. He was a dud during his time in Philadelphia. This report alleges that he was a cheating dud. What a hero.

Great Blog! Let me know if you want to exchange links with mine:

Speaking of impending doom which may have been greatly exaggerated: Jayson Werth picked up two more hits and an RBI today.

Nice segwey RSB.

I'm sorry, RSB, what about the reporting of the facts about David Bell upsets you? Or is it the speculation on the board that followed? And those who think David Bell should ask for his money back if he was taking steroids, please take a look at the size of the minor-league fish who have been caught via testing. One of the things that ought to be clear by now is that steroids can enable an athlete to train longer, thereby adding more muscle; what HGH does we don't really know, and won't until those who take/took it come forward and say so. But how any of these drugs translate to baseball performance is anybody's guess.

What always amuses me when people start railing against performance enhancers is the lack of an outcry against Lasik surgery. We old-timers will recall that Ted Williams' eyesight famously tested out at 20-10, and he credited that tremendous natural eyesight with his ability to recognize pitches quickly. Today, many players get surgery that "corrects" their eyesight not to 20-20 but to 20-15 or 20-10. If steroids are considered an unfair edge, why isn't Lasik surgery?

Well, that's easy. Steroids are illegal. Next...

He asked why steroids are unfair, not if they're illegal or not. I'm inclined to agree. It's just another scientific advance, like strength training or nutrition programs.

yeah, they should ban glasses and contact lenses too...

Clout whats with the not understanding my English. You seem to understand when someone thinks you are wrong and then you criticize their english to get even. I suppose you are a English teacher besides knowing everything else that goes on with baseball. Seems like you are the only one here that thinks Bourn should be starting over Vic and that Vic should only be a 4th outfielder. But of course you are right and we are all wrong.

Perhaps I can explain it for you, fljerry.

He is NOT suggesting Bourn should be starting over Vic. He IS suggesting that Vic is better as a fourth outfield. He is NOT suggesting he is right and everyone else is wrong. He's giving an opinion which is what, it seems, this kind of a forum is built for.

Clout, I apologize if I put words in your mouth.

mm: An outfield of Bourn, Victorino and Rowand would hit a combined 40 home runs. It's just not a viable outfield.

CJ - Thats not the way I read it. He is saying that Bourn should be playing and Vic is to be the 4th outfielder. (besides correcting others english)

No need to jump down my throat, Alby. It's one thing to report the links and allegations - although the media feeding frenzy for dirt-digging scandal is certainly well satiated by this latest round of 'investigative' spectacle - and another for everyone to immediately use it as an excuse to start irresponsibly speculating and calling this one and that one a cheating bastard. The only leveled response to this besides Jason's came from Fletch, way the hell up on this thread. I think we need far more sufficient 'facts' before we all start judging and making statements about fans being given their money back.

Alby: mm, I guess you weren't really jumping down my throat. Sorry, sometimes I get too fired up for my own good. I just think it stinks that Bell should be presumed to be some horrible, duplicitous person just because no one liked him as a player.

fljerry: Please re-read what I wrote. Nowhere did I say, "Bourn should be starting over Vic." Nothing in what I wrote could be interpreted that way.

That is what caused me to question your ability to understand English. But I shouldn't have said that, and for that I sincerely apologize to you and the board.

CJ does understand what I wrote. Perhaps you should allow him to be your interpreter for my posts.

RSB, Alby: Some interesting stuff about hGH from the Baseball Steroid Era blog:

The main attraction to hGH for athletes is its ability to aid in the recovery and prevention of injuries. Growth hormone stimulates the synthesis of collagen, which is necessary for strengthening cartilage, bones, tendons and ligaments.

Jason Grimsley used the drug in combination with anabolic steroid, deca-duabolin, to recover from ligament replacement (Tommy John) surgery after only nine months, half the estimated recovery time for pitchers.

The performance-enhancing uses for hGH are not limited to injuries. Growth hormone increases the number of red blood cells, boosts heart function and makes more energy available by stimulating the breakdown of fat. Users have also noted improved eyesight, better sleep and better sex.

Yeah, I know the claims; an HGH offer sneaks through the spam filter every once in a while, and at my age, weight and general state of decay, it's worth considering. What I mean is, we don't really know what it does compared with steroids.

Kdon, yes, I know steroids are illegal. So are greenies, which players have taken since the '60s, and nobody considered barring Pete Rose for admitting taking them.

RSB: I actually wasn't sure which upset you, the reporting or the rush to judgment. I ask because I agree with you; I was never a fan of Bell, viewing him from Day 1 as an aging vet overpaid because he hit the market at the peak of his value. But I don't hate him, and I certainly don't feel any worse about him because he might have taken steroids. I have a simple gauge here: If I were in his shoes, would I take them? I'm not sure, but I'm old enough to hesitate before I crow out, "Hell, no!" I have seen a lot of people do a lot of things to hold onto a threatened job; I'm not willing to throw the first stone at David Bell.

This certainly could serve as a valid reason for David Bell and the chronic bad back which has decimated his career. I certainly am not going to vilify injured players for taking the HGH. If major league baseball now can't make any exceptions for guys who are trying to salvage their careers in the circumstance physical debilitation, after not bothering to outlaw steroids for years, *they're* the ones who ought to be taken out to pasture, not the scapegoated players. I mean, really: Jason Grimsley is now effectively blacklisted, while Sammy Sosa makes a comeback with Texas. I see no justice here.

I don't believe it's as cut-and-dried as just pointing a finger at a given player, and equivocating: "HGH! Cheater!" You can't just make sweeping 'drug' roundups without regard for individual cases. I mean, where did they ever get the idea for that? Eh, never mind...

Why are you posting all the negative comments at the bottom? Sounds like a bunch of kids (men) that never had a chance in the first place. How can you actually "HATE" someone you don't know? That's an awful strong word for such intelligent people. (just kidding about intelligent) Sounds like a bunch of little girls that never made the cheerleading squad. Come on can do better than that. What has David Bell ever done to you? Oh yeah, and if in fact David Bell took the steriods? Doesn't sound to me like he took mega doses of some of the others. Maybe it was for something his back???? Oh but wouldn't want to hear the truth would you?

I have learned to really hate baseball in general over the past decade: steroid abuse, player/owner greed, strikes, bad pitching,
slow ball play, etc... the list extends on for weeks. The Phillies really suck, who cares...

These comments are typical coming from Philly fans..maybe if they had better fans and support they could win a world series...David Bell was probably one of the hardest playing athletes, and best third basemans they have ever had. He had too much talent and class to be in Philly! It is sad that most your players become true studs when they get traded...


Very good stuff. They have been around a long time. -
Sorry if there is already post for this, i did not see it.

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