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Thursday, February 01, 2007

Comments

even though brett wasn't a free agent until after the 2008 season, this is a very good deal when you put into the equation of what the free agent pitchers were getting the off season (gil meche 5 years 55.5 mill)
One more thing to keep put into perspective is that myers is making as much as adam eaton, not to put eaton down but brett is a hell of alot better then eaton! oh and he is only 26 years old..
now if he can only keep his head straight throughout a whole game and not get flustered so easily.....

One thing they should demand is that he not leave the batting cage in Clearwater until he can lay down a sac bunt consistently.

Generous is right. I guess we can forget about him going anywhere now. We'll know if this was a good move or a bad move in a year from now.

Another demand, although directed at the entire squad, may be some run production when Myers is on the mound. I am confident in saying that his '06 12-7 record would look much, much more formidable if some of those 2-1, 3-2 losses had ended up in the win column for him.

Interesting deal that I like a whole lot more than Eaton at 3 years/$24 million. Phils' locked up a good starter for $8+ million a year when average starting pitchers got paid $10+ million in free agency.

Deal did surprise me but the Phils had to show their fans that they were willing to spend some of the money they saved from trading Abreu and getting out from some old long-term deals (Lieberthal, Bell, e.g.) this offseason.

If the Phils had come into this season with a $75 million payroll, ownership would have made a liar out of Gillick who repeatedly declared that the Phils would be near $90 million to open the season. Would have been yet another bad PR snafu for the Phils' with the media and fans.

This is a good deal for the Phillies. It would have been even better to go for 4 years, given the insane market for starting pitching. Finally, we have an example of PG 'buying low.'

It's a little apple/oranges to compare this with free agency. With Eaton, the Phillies were bidding against baseball. Myers was under their control for two more seasons. They were bidding for that extra year.

Point taken J. Plus, I guess it is not that much of a raise given Myers asked for $5.9 milion this seasons and Phils offered $5 million.

Figure he would have made $5.5 million this season and probably something nearly $7 or $8 million in 2008 if Phils hadn't moved him.

We can talk about another year or a million here or there but the bottom line is we have Brett for 3 years and let's not forget this VERY important piece: he's happy. It's what he wanted and now he can go out there and win 15-20 games.

Good move by the Phils. He has been consistantly good. He very well may just step up this year and become a top pitcher now. The offense and defense behind him will be much better this year for the entire year.

I like this deal for the fans and for the Phillies. Like him or not, he's the anchor of this rotation. I'm very pleased that he'll be around for 3 more years. Like someone said above, I would've liked to have seen a 4-yr extension, but I'm definately not complaining about this one. He's not making too much, and he's certainly not going to be starving. Props to Gillick for locking up a top-of-the-rotation starter for less than market value.

12.5 for one year of free agency. great deal.

see meche, gil and zambrano, carlos.

Food for thought - Barry Zito will make $52 million in the same timeframe. Anyone seriously think Myers is overpaid here? Awesome deal. If he didn't have the off-field crap this past year, I bet he could have asked for and gotten another 2-3 mil per season for the same stretch.

that's kind of apples and oranges becuase of the two arbitration years. if myers was a free agent he would have signed right around (probably over) 12 mil per year.

This is a great signing. Nice job by PG, Amaro, yes Amaro, and their staff. I too am surprised at the value this contract represents. I'm sure Myers could have gotten more if he has strung this out until free agency, but he obviously likes what he sees here in Philly, and likes pitching here, and let's face it, $25MM represents lifetime financial security no matter what else happens.

Now the negative. Bob D wrote:

"The offense and defense behind him will be much better this year for the entire year."

If they trade Rowand, the defense will suffer. That will hurt the pitching overall, or what is perceived to be the pitching. I wonder what the pitchers currently on the staff think of moving Rowand for RP as opposed to Lieber.

I'm glad the Pads tabled that deal for now. I'm for the team standing pat and seeing what develops in ST. For example, the Cards just lost Weaver so they'll be looking for SP, and any team is capable of losing a starter to injury in ST inclusding the Phils (Eaton/Hamels).

If Lieber comes into ST in half decent shape and pitches well, his value will go up as we get closer to the start of the season and teams with a need get more desperate, just as they do at the trade deaadline.

As far as entering the season with six SP on the staff, Eaton has been quoted as saying he'll temporarilly move to the bullpen to accomodate. While I don't like that move, it would help if the goal is to maximize what you get in a trade.

Be wary, be very wary gentlemen, of sacrificing defense.

Which is more predictable at the beginning of a season, the defense you'll get from an outfielder, or the pitching you'll get from a reliever?

The one aspect I like about this deal is the timing. Now he goes to Clearwater without a call from his agent every two hours about such and such year and money.

MG, I agree with you, and am glad to see they are keeping the payroll right where it should be. I remember that was a big concern of yours (and mine) around the Abreu trade. Amazing what a little extra cash around the margin can do for younger talent with more potential.

I am not counting on him making the next big leap in 2007, but more likely in 2008, based on stats and the remainder of the holes plugged in by then.

Added benefit to all this? Myers wage if they *do* want to trade him before the end of the three years will look attractive to any club, meaning we should get more for him in return. I like it fine as a deal. Not too much in terms of money, not too little in terms of remaining years. I wonder if the phils had the example of zambrano sitting at the back of their minds - he's going to cost the cubs a lot to keep, if they successfully manage to hold onto him.

It would appear that the Utley signing could reap some additional benefits to the Phillies organization, like other players being more interested in playing/staying here knowing that Utley and Howard will be here for the next few seasons. These two players are legitimate all-stars and are well-respected around baseball.
It sounded like that played a part in Myers decision.

The key now will be for Myers to get/keep himself in good shape. He's got the talent to be a big winner in this game and if his head and attitude are squared away, this is a very good signing by the Phillies.

Salisbury's follow-up is very positive; Myers seems focused. I've got the itch. Let's play ball!

Couple of thoughts- I agree with George S. that the Utley signing may have a trickle down effect, and make some of the current roster want to stick around longer instead of maxing out contracts on the free agent market...we can only hope.

Brett Myers still has the ability to become a legit #1 starter. If he could take his mental game to the level of his physical game, then we're looking at a 20 game winner with run support, which the Phils offense should supply. I didn't say Myers is there yet, but if he could take his ERA down to 3.30-3.50 range and start 34 games, then it's quite possible.

This is a smart baseball contract no matter how you feel about Brett Myers the person, because Brett Myers the pitcher is worth this.

Weitzel- what the hell were you doing up at 4 am? Usually I'm the 1st here in the morning.

As I mentioned over at my nook on the net, I think Gillick chose three years for several reasons: 1 - Myers head, 2 - Gillick's distrust of the consistency of starting pitchers in general, 3 - In three years time, the Phils will have a pretty good handle on what type of pitchers the prospects in the low minors will become. If one or two of them look like big leaguers, it would be wise to break them in and part ways with the expensive Myers.

I'm a little puzzled about posters here who think this signing somehow couldn't be done without the Abreu trade. Please look at the numbers. The money is NOT up front. Same with Garcia. The Phils at this moment haven't reached $90M in salaries yet.

When do playoff tickets go on sale?

So Myers is another member of the Foghorn Preservation Society when he said, "I love the fans and having Charlie as the manager." This gives Carson another reason not to like Brett.

On the field, I like Brett. It is a good move for the Phillies to solidify their starting pitching for a few years.

When Bob D wrote: "The offense and defense behind him will be much better this year for the entire year.", I found myself scratching my head. I believe the outfield offense and/or defense will not be as good as last year. Offense at catcher will suffer with Barajas. Offense will marginally improve but defense will suffer at 3B, unless No Hit Nunez starts, then, the offense at 3B will suck bigger than last year's black hole.

One of the biggest unanswered questions going into ST is the condition of Pat the Bat's ailing foot.

I love to criticize the FO as much as anyone, especially how Pat G disdains the moneyball effect, but other than overpaying for Eaton, all of his moves this offseason were extremely solid moves, by any measure.

I can't count - Zito makes $42 mill in same time frame - 10 mil, 14 mil then 18 mil. Regardless, still think Myers is a great deal.

Myers-"I've grown up in this organization..."

That's the whole issue-has he grown up? What reason is there to think he has? Because he now appears to know how to talk to the press?

Not hard to make a case against this deal.

Clout: When you throw in the $5.5 million that we are paying Thome this year (and next year and the year after), I think we are over the $90 million mark. We are currently in the top 7 teams in payroll, so this isn't our 90s Fightins. I find it kind of amusing when the Phillies get beat up on this and our football team has a bigger revenue stream and a fixed payroll number that allows Lurie to pocket a lot of cash.

Its not a great deal, and it is not a bad deal. It is just a fair deal for both. We get an extra year at a discount and he gets security.

He will still get his 5/60 deal in 3 years.

And in three years we will probably have lost our window.

Lets win now!!!!!

MPN: Thanks for checking in. It's an honor you're using this site to stay connected, and I know Tom from BS&S feels the same. Stay safe, and return soon!

Clout - It is not at $90 million but closer than I thought it was going to be.

I still think the Phils' tight wad ways will return when they move Lieber (primarily for cash reasons) for something cheap in return. Then the payroll will likely open closer to $80 million. Semantics about whether you include the money they are paying for Thome yet.

"That's the whole issue-has he grown up? What reason is there to think he has? Because he now appears to know how to talk to the press?"
You have got to be kidding me? Sorry, no offense, but that is a ridiculous statement...let me say this, yes I want him to mature as a player and as a man, but to be honestm what we want from him is IP and W's. To expect anything more is unrealistic and not fair to any person.

I'd love to see someone ask the qualifier around payroll "Does that $90 million include salaries for players no longer on the roster?" That would answer a lot, in terms of how much wiggle room PG had to throw at Soriano or Sheffield, and how much more activity we should expect to see.

I don't see this deal done just to get closer to some mythically promised payroll number - as mentioned it does little to impact THIS year's number, at all. I see it more to add some semblance of stability for Myers, who has been the subject of recent trade rumors. Also, is it just coincidence that Mgmt "sures up" pitching just a bit more the day before season tix go on sale?

On the subject of Leiber, I sincerely hope that the Front Office bides its time through ST before making any moves. Let's keep in mind that we're going IN to Spring Training with 6 starters. There's no guarantee that all 6 make it out healthy and ready to roll into the season.

John Salmon writes, "Not hard to make a case against this deal." So why didn't you make it? He "hasn't grown up"? He was paid for his performance, apparently compiled during his extended adolescence; the contract would have been larger if he were more mature, so consider it an immaturity discount. So what's your argument?

MG: Semantics? No, they money is definitely going to Thome this year, so it counts.

To amend what George said about this having a trickle-down effect: possibly the best implication of the trouble-free negotiations and extensions of Utley and Myers is that it now seems a foregone conclusion that the Phillies will get something done with Howard around this time next season - and a couple of weeks ago, none of this seemed like a foregone conclusion. So kudos to the Phillies, for once, for sending the right message to the players and the fans.

In regards to whether these extensions would have been as elementary with Abreu on the books: it's hard to say, particularly because Amaro said they could have extended Utley *and* signed Soriano. But would the Phillies have been able to also extend Myers and start preparing for Howard's negotiations with Abreu still around? All considered - and even as I acknowledge that his departure has left the Phillies thin in the outfield (which has ironically *decreased* their flexibility, if not financially, then with the ability to make trades) - it still appears that he left at just the time he needed to. You can't have everything. It's too bad Burrell couldn't have been unloaded instead, obviously, but *one* of those two contracts probably had to go so that a new version of the future could be mortgaged. I think it's fair to discern that this was probably the Phillies' thinking. No, they didn't sign Soriano, and yes, a few of us including myself were grumbling that they didn't 'replace' Abreu either physically or financially this off-season, but at this point I'm mostly glad they didn't. The Phillies may have no farm system, but they are in the process of locking up a young, hungry core of players, one just entering its prime and among the most talented in all of baseball - and yet with this, they still seem to maintain enough financial flexibility to make important moves during the season or in the following off-season to ensure a high level of competitiveness while (hopefully) the minor leagues begin to regroup. I don't mean to sound like the first blind optimist of spring here, but generally, this plan bodes well.

MG - There's a lot of younger guys getting raises in the future too. So the $80million payroll this year will swell to $90+ within two years without signing any additional guys.

It would be fiscally unsound to have a payroll of $90+ million this year only to have to trade some valuable guys from a bad trading stance in 2 or 3 years. cough *Abreu trade* cough.

Utley and Myer's contracts contain massive raises over the course of the contract. Not as bad as Wade-era contracts, of course, but still there. Howard's will probably be similarly apportioned.

Unless they pass up a great player on a 1 or 2 year contract, I'm not going to get upset about not reaching the magic $90million.

ThatDude-A few months ago this guy beat up his wife. In public.

To say we now know, based on a few good months of pitching, that he's "matured", is laughable.

Alby, I didn't "make the case" because it hardly needs to be made.

Why is everyone saying that this is a great move from PG? He said earlier this offseason that he was not handleing the contracts for the arbitration eligable players and Amaro was. Amaro was the one who announced the deal as well. I believe he is the one in charge of the contracts because it is known in the organization that Amaro is the Phils next GM. Am I the only one that sees this? Or am I just looking at this all wrong?

Rev: I assume, that at some time, Gillick had to OK this.

Amaro did a good job writing it out, but this wasn't a free agent signing or contract negotiation. As far as extensions goes, it was only one year into free agency, and he got the $12million garunteed. So, in my opinion, the action was good, the contract was pretty much what everyone expected for a 3-year deal.

Will - I agree the Phils need some payroll flexibility to sign Howard to a long-term deal; however, that $10 million swing is a huge deal and misses the much more important point about winning this year.

It could have brought in a guy like Trot Nixon vs. Werth who would have been perfect for a platoon spot in RF. Plus, it would have allowed the Phils to take a gamble on Borowski for a year vs. the 12-Fingered Wonder.

When all is said and done, I bet Burowski and Nixon will both have better years than Alfonseca and Werth. Plus, Burowski and Nixon both signed 1-year deals and the Phils would still have had payroll flexibility in 2 or 3 years.

That is the point with this team and has been for 20+ years now. I guarantee that Montogomery and Co. had a line in the sand set by Sept. for this offseason. Ensures the Phils' owners will make a nice profit and that they will continue to get handout money from the MLB luxury tax (which is a crime).

For all of the lack of PR savvy that Montgomery and Co. have, they are good businessman. Their investment in the Phils has gone up over 10x since they bought the team and they make a nice profit every year.

Even if Borowski finishes the season with the league lead in saves, I would not blame the Phillies for not signing him. He failed the team physical. The Phillies passed based on advice from doctors.

"But would the Phillies have been able to also extend Myers and start preparing for Howard's negotiations with Abreu still around?"

RSB, the answer is an unequivocal YES. As clout pointed out, Myers and Utley won't be getting the big bucks until 2008, when Abreu's contract would have been over anyway.

Also, I have no idea what you mean by "preparing" for Howard's negotiations. Do you mean that they are using the money they were going to pay Abreu for office supplies, ink toner, and a power point presentation?

Howard will make something like 1.2-1.5M this year, the Phillies could have afforded him if they had Abreu, Thome, SOriano, Zito and Carlos Lee on the team.

John, if you expect me to understand what you're talking about, you're going to have to make it. What, your argument is he beats his wife, therefore he can't pitch? Sorry, that's a loser of an argument from here.

Alby-The man, absent any evidence to the contrary, is another argument away from jail time. Men who beat their wives are habitual about it....it's not a one-time event. Do you want somebody like that on your team? What's hard to understand?

I don't understand the now-trivial attitude about Myers' behavior. A few months ago, most people on this board and other Phillies' boards were up in arms. Now that his wife has been cowed into silence, it's okay, because he pitched decently for a few momths?

Are sports really that important?

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