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Monday, December 04, 2006


Boy, Julio Santana sure does look slimmed down in that picture.

He's a complete unknown quantity having only low minors exposure in 2006. I don't place much hope in this guy.

he's had two successfull years in MLB, and then a bum shoulder. totally worth a flyer.

rsb - classic line. classic.

lets hope he never sees the field.

I don't know why you would hope he never sees the field. did you hope mediocre career minor leaguer Chris Coste would never see the field last year?

maybe he gets his form back and contributes, maybe he doesn't. it's a good low-risk gamble, even if it's not the high-profile signing everyone seems to be waiting for.

I'm with ae. Thumbs-up for this move.

ae - on a world series contending team one would hope the 31 year old minor league/ journeyman bullpen guy didn't have to see the field. that doesn't mean on opposed to the move or think their isn't upside.

just like a world series contending team would not have gone into last year depending on 65 games from coste.

is it awesome that coste did that? yes. would i be thrilled if davis provided similar success? yes. i just hope nobody is actually counting on it.

i'm saying i hope we have about 10 better options come the trip north than 'Dean' Kane Davis.

i don't understand that scouting report -- what poise is there to have if the game's not on the line? i hope davis sticks at AAA because that might mean someone like yoel hernandez makes the big club. he probably would've been a call up last year had he not gotten hurt.

and there's nothing mediocre about coste as a minor leaguer, by the way. again, he's an-injury-free (jinx), career .300 hitter who hit over .400 in spring training last year. he deserved his shot. his and davis' situations aren't quite the same.

Low-risk for sure. I'm fine with it as long as we get some more concrete options as well. By the way, where is the, "our people have had their eye on him for a while" type quote from the Phillies?

fair enough, that's not that far from my thinking.

I like the idea mentioned by several posters on here of bringing 5/6+ longshot/borderline relievers into spring training to see who pans out, and I see Davis as a case like that. I don't think it's out of the question that Davis or someone like him could pitch in 6th/7th innings and put up numbers similar to what White, Fultz, Franklin, Madson, etc. did last year.

i think we're all in agreement!

RSB, my thoughts exactly as I was reading the caption! Nicely done!

Fine signing. Not exciting, and I'd probably be aggravated if Amaro jumped in front of the cameras and extolled Davis as the Answer. But as basically a long-shot contender to be the last guy out of the bullpen, why not?

Anyone who thinks Kane Davis is going to help this team this year ought to take up another sport.

Hard to believe people are giving up on the guy before he even takes the field in a Phils uniform.

I'm not holding my breath, but middle relief is a tough thing for any team to lock down. I suppose the other alternative is to sign whatever washed-up, career-5.00-ERA, Arthur-Rhodes-wannabe we can find.

Give the guy a shot. Who knows?

No harm done, and as ae says, bringing borderline and young guys to ST and seeing who pans out doesn't cost you anything.

Judging from his stats on the baseball cube , he's done an okay job on homeruns, but control might be a bit of an issue. That year in colarado was pretty credible tho'.

How can anybody seriously think this guy makes any kind of impact on the team next year? This acquistion is classifed as "irrevelant."

I know winter meetings aren't over yet but I have 100% faith that the Phils will not make any signifcant moves that strengthen this team. Just so frustrating watching this team on the verge the past few years without doing anything.

CJ: "I suppose the other alternative is to sign whatever washed-up, career-5.00-ERA, Arthur-Rhodes-wannabe we can find."
Who do you think we just signed? Take a look at Kane Davis career stats.

Oisin: That was 5 years ago and credible is not a word I would use for a 32/47 BB/K ratio and a HR every 6 IP. I'm not saying this signing is a bad idea, I'm saying the odds of him making the team are less than slim and none.

MG: Had I seen your post I would not have posted. Your first paragraph made my point more succinctly and eloquently than I could.

in theory, it should be unlikely for a guy like Davis to make the ML roster.

in reality, there's probably two or three spots in a 12-man pitching staff that we have nobody for at the moment. (I count nine pitchers excluding guys like Floyd, Condrey, Brito, etc.) I don't see the Phillies signing more than one obvious ML reliever this offseason. therefore, I don't think it's that unlikely Davis sees ML time this year, unless he does nothing but get shelled in ST/AAA ball.

don't you think it's contradictory to say that a pickup like Davis is "irrelevant," but then follow that up with suggesting that the Phils are not going to sign any other players? who's in the bullpen, in that case?

I'm somewhat at a loss as to what most folks think Gillick should be doing or should have done this offseason that folks are so critical of him?

Traded Burrell for $0.50 on the dollar just to get rid of him?

Signed guys like Lee or Soriano for contracts that run 6-8 years? (Even if you agree on the pricetags)

Not signed Eaton, but instead sign someone like Zito for at least twice the money? Or perhaps Schmidt, who wants nothing to do with the east coast?

Outbid teams like the Orioles for marginal FA relievers (with 3-4 year deals)?

Not signed Helms, but Ramirez instead for big dollars and another 5-6 year deal? Or perhaps Sheffield for $13 mil++ and no glove?

Bolster the OF with guys like Lofton, or Trot Nixon? Trade away good/cheap players for a year's rental of Vernon Wells (or pay him $20 mil per)?

The only thing I think Gillick should have done that he didn't do was bid on Iwamura, the Japanese 3B.

He still might end up trading Rowand or others for bullpen help or another starter (or a RH bat), but he has time. There will be relief arms floating around, and the success rate for predicting which ones can contribute or stay healthy is not high. Signing a lot of cheap relief arms is not a bad strategy. I'm not exactly in a panic because David Weathers might slip through our fingers.

So far this offseason, I look at the 'good' teams, the contenders, and I don't see many of them chasing after these ridiculously-priced FAs. Boston is the only team that took a real risk with the Matsuoka bid. Most of the better teams just added secondary pieces or made moves to secure their existing star players.

The Phils have some holes to fill, but they are actually relatively minor holes. They have a solid everyday lineup and a solid 5-man rotation. They have a closer. Sure, age and injuries can blow the whole thing up, but that's always a risk.
They need a couple of decent backup arms and perhaps another RH bench player. Those pieces are available or will become available. They always do.

Wow, what an underwhelming move.

ae- I stated that the Phils would "not make any significant moves." I do think they will sign another retread or two to fill out the bullpen.

The thing that really baffles me is that posters on this website are comparing Davis to the guys already in the majors. With the exception of a few garbage innings with the Brewers, this guy has been horrible in the majors. Plus, numbers in the minors don't exactly suggest "diamond in the rough."

This is the type of move that 95% of fans don't even pick up because it frankly doesn't matter.

If the Phils strategy as suggested by ae is to bring in a 5-6 marginal guys again to fill the pen, the Phils are going to be left with another year of generally mediocre/terrible relief pitching.

"If the Phils strategy as suggested by ae is to bring in a 5-6 marginal guys again to fill the pen, the Phils are going to be left with another year of generally mediocre/terrible relief pitching."

MG, I don't disagree with you, but what are the alternatives? All of the 'major league' arms available are marginal guys, and you have no more certainty about their 2007 performances than you do with some of the minor league guys. The only certainty with them is their price tags.

If we didn't take a flyer on some of these fringe guys, we never would have gotten the Aaron Fultz of 2005 (taken off waivers from the Twins and coming off two straight 5++ ERA seasons) or Geoff Geary of 2005/6 (re-signed as a free agent after a 2004 season with a 5.44 ERA). We would have signed more Arthur Rhodes', Ryan Franklins and Terry Adams' instead. No thanks.

In fairness clout, I did say that control was an issue. In the main I was looking at hits and homeruns per 9, which he did a decent job of as a reliever who would have pitched some time in colorado.

5 years is a stretch, sure, but I was looking for indicators in a length of time in the majors which matched up somewhat to his numbers in the minors. I reckon he's a stretch, but don't see the harm in it.

And George - good point on the 'big teams.' Braves, A's (perhaps unfair in FA terms, but few trades as yet), Yankees, and Red Sox have either been fairly quiet or coughed up for pitching. Coughing up for matsuzuka is a big money move, but out of all the contracts given is the one most likely to yield value for money this season. Compare them all to the giants who are chucking money around after older guys - 81 mill on Aurilia (2 years, 35), Durham (2 years, 35), Feliz (1 year, age 32) and Roberts (34, 3 years). At least they've the sense to keep the contracts short ('cept for roberts). Or what about the mets, who have signed up 2 40-year olds and 3 37 year olds for a combined 35.65 mill (again, no contract longer than 2 years, but the rotation stays Old - not that they have much choice).

bring back Joe Roa!

did ya ever notice how he took his hat off after every pitch and shook his hair out...silly lil' elf.

George S, that's my thinking. and what about Rick White, who was waived with an ERA over 6 - or Shane Victorino, who looked like a washout with a .613 OPS in AAA. or what about the Mets signing Darren Oliver after he posted a 2.46 (not a typo!) WHIP for the Cubs' AAA team in 2005?

just to be perfectly clear, I'm not saying this was some great move or that Davis is the bullpen savior. it is the very definition of a marginal move. but I like the idea of taking chances on marginal guys like Davis (again, not necessarily Davis himself) more than I like bringing in another "proven" reliever like Arthur Rhodes.

Phils have absolutely nothing to lose by signing a 31-yr-old journeyman reliever to a minor-league deal.

In a thin FA market, many of the desirable RPs were late bloomers. Borowski, Bradford, Jamie Walker, even Weathers - took until their late 20's/early 30's before putting together solid seasons. And, as George S. posted above, Geary was considered human dreck entering the '05 season. Obviously, Davis wasn't signed to set-up Gordon, but could contribute as the 6th or 7th arm out of the bullpen.
The signing may turn out to be irrelevant, but Gillick has nothing to lose.

sign Zito instead

I agree that the Phils need to bring in a few guys who might be deemed "marginal" to fill out the pen. Often, one of those guys fills out.

I am just frustrated that the Phils haven't brought in one solid veteran arm to work the 7th or 8th. They should have moved a little quicker.

Now, they are stuck between a rock and a hard place to get a quality arm for the pen. Either make a trade that creates a new hole on the roster or deplete the minors by trading prospects.


I can see why Gillick would take the proverbial flyer on this guy, but this must be a slow news day. He'll be in Ottawa.

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