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Thursday, October 12, 2006


The sausage assassin, nice.

sausage assassin, classic. Pretty much said it all JW, Thurston will get to say, "yeah, I played in the big leagues," for the rest of his life, not too shabby in the grand scheme of things.

Thurston actually made it to the show three other seasons besides this one with the Dodgers, but his 18 ABs with the Phils was more than any previous season. I claim no credit for sausage assassin ... someone else said it here first.

What, this Julio Santana thread isn't interesting enough for you joe? Geesh.

Is that really Santana or did you Photoshop a Phillies hat on top of one of the "people on the street" they survey over at The Onion?

Quick question. Who is the gentleman pictured above? Mariano Duncan?

julio santana: well, slightly better than ricardo rodriguez, anyway.

alternate title: me and julio down at the unemployment line

Weitzel -

No offense, but I still do enjoy baseball, and since games are still being played, I would prefer to talk about that.

I'm betting that Zumaya is back for the Muts, but maybe he'll only hit 101. he may have to call Moyer for advice on how to pitch when you're speed has declined.

joe - I was just kidding with you. Talk about whatever you want, especially on this particular thread involving Julio Santana and the sausage assassin. I'm surprised the conversation stayed on topic this long.

Does this mean I wont be able to start the Simon fan club? Sausage Assassins or Sausage Slashers would've been a good name.

The list of utterly mysterious Pat Gillick acquisitions from last winter who inevitably flamed out and were unceremoniously tossed out the side door:

1. Ricardo Rodriguez
2. Chris Booker
3. Alex Gonzalez
4. Sal Fasano
5. Ryan Franklin
6. Adam Bernero
7. Julio Santana

Have I forgotten anyone? Seven in one calendar year. That's not good.

I'm bringin sexy back

did anyone know that Lidle thought it was more important to buy his ill fated plane rather than watch the first few innings of a game back in May. The guy was totally into planes

Lidle was 72 days short of full pension.

In the left corner, at two hundred forty pounds, the Sausage Ass-Sass-In!

And in the right corner, at two hun-dred fifty pounds and growing, Straight outta Alabama. The Big. Bad. Doughnut Taster!

Now it's gonna be a fair fight, gentlemen. No taunting, no bats to the back of the skull, and no Krispy Kremes. It's a battle of wills. And guts.


Wait, Carlos Santana pitched for the Phils?

Ironically, Julio Santana probably outweighs both Simon and Lieber...

Sausage and donuts? Sounds like a breakfast straight out of Berks County... lol

And I'm glad someone's bringin sexy back... because it sure wasn't going to be Julio Santana...

anybody else get the phillies season ticket survey this morning? i bitched about the usual - lame playoff ticket policy, etc

OK Jason here's my grades on Gillick's player moves, now give us yours.

Acquired CF Aaron Rowand, LHP Daniel Haigwood and Gio Gonzalez for 1B Jim Thome and cash
Grade: C.
Thome had a monster season and Rowand’s impact on the Phillies was minimal, but this grade could rise if Rowand bounces back to his 2005 form and Gonzalez and Fabio Castro (acquired for Haigwood) pan out. If the pitchers fail and it becomes a straight Rowand for Thome, then the grade is D.

Signed free agent RHP Julio Santana to a one-year contract.
Grade: F
Santana had pitched 470 IP with little success so I’m not sure what Gillick was seeing here.

Signed free agent INF Abraham Nunez to a two-year contract.
Grade: D
Nunez was a lifetime .240 hitter with no power and poor OB but a decent glove who had a career year with the Cardinals in ’05. If he is the starting thirdbaseman next year, the Phils will not make the playoffs.

Signed free agent C Sal Fasano to a one-year contract.
Grade: D
He was NOT an upgrade over Todd Pratt, but Sal’s Pals were lots of fun.

Signed free agent RHP Tom Gordon to a three-year contract
Grade: C
Gordon gets an A for his first half performance and an F for his second half.

Acquired RHP Ricardo Rodriguez from Texas for Vicente Padilla
Grade: F
Padilla would’ve been the second best pitcher in the rotation, eliminated the Madson-Floyd fiasco and put the team into the playoffs. Rodriguez had 200 IP with bad H/IP and K/BB ratios at the time of the trade and did nothing here.

Phillies non-tendered outfielder Endy Chavez, even though he was hitting .324 in Venezuelan league.
Grade: F
The Mets signed him about 10 minutes after Gillick cut him. He hit .306

Signed RHP Ryan Franklin to a one-year contract.
Grade: F
Another AL pitcher with a history of failure.

Acquired LHP Arthur Rhodes from Cleveland for OF Jason Michaels.
Grade: F
Rhodes provided almost nothing. J-Mike killed lefties, as usual, but the Indians misused him as an everyday player. He would’ve been an upgrade over Conine, had they kept him.

Signed free agent INF Alex S. Gonzalez to a one-year contract
Grade: F
A-Gonz did nothing and was gone.

Acquired OF David Dellucci and cash from the Texas Rangers for RHP Robinson Tejeda and OF Jake Blalock
Grade: D
Tejeda did about as well for Texas as he did for the Phils in ’05 if you adjust for league and park factors. He’s a decent swingman and, at 24, has potential to get better. Dellucci was a key factor in the team’s August hitting surge, but he’s a liability in the field, can’t hit LHP and likely won’t sign with the team for ’07.

Acquired LHP Fabio Castro from the Texas Rangers in exchange for LHP Daniel Haigwood and cash.
Grade: B
Castro is a flamethrower and Haigwood a lefty finesse guy. Odds favor Castro.

Acquired SS C.J. Henry, LHP Matt Smith, C Jesus Sanchez and RHP Carlos Monastrios from the Yankees for OF Bobby Abreu and RHP Cory Lidle.
Grade: F
The Yankees call it one of the best trades in team history and Abreu probably has at least 3 productive years left. This is not the unmitigated disaster of the Rolen or Schilling trades, because they had many more seasons left. But it is one of the worst ever, considering that Smith, a situational reliever, is all they have to show for it. As you watch the Marlins young prospects (most acquired for veterans of less quality than Abreu) grow and lead, keep thinking about C.J. Henry.

Claimed RHP Rick White off waivers from the Reds.
Grade: B+
Mr. President ate bullpen innings and had bullpen phone fun.

Traded LHP Rheal Cormier to the Cincinnati Reds in exchange for RHP Justin Germano
Grade: B
Could be even higher if Germano develops into the 4th starter I think he can be.

Traded RHP Ryan Franklin to Cincinnati for Zac Stott.
Grade: A
Stott will never see the big leagues but Franklin was an utter disaster.

Acquired LHP Jamie Moyer from the Seattle Mariners in exchange for Minor League RHPs Andrew Baldwin and Andrew Barb.
Grade: B+
This becomes an A if Moyer re-signs here and the youngsters fail. Barb could be good, however.

Acquired INF/OF Jose Hernandez from the Pittsburgh Pirates in exchange for cash.
Grade B
Huge upgrade over Sandoval, nice bat vs. LHP, plays 7 positions. Now a free agent.

Acquired OF Jeff Conine and cash from the Orioles in exchange for Angel Chavez.
Grade: B
Like Dellucci, he fueled the August hitting surge, then cooled off sharply at the end. He and the team have a mutual option so his future is unclear. Chavez is a mediocre prospect.

When I issue grades, I'll put it in a post. In the meantime, we have a lot of the same grades, clout, and fans have every right to be critical of Gillick's moves, though it should be stated that not every move holds the same weight. The Alex Gonzalez signing, for example, is something we should just dust off. The problem is there were just too many signings like this that produced ziltch.

I'd give the Dellucci trade a better grade. Agree on the bigger acquisitions like Rhodes and Gordon. Rhodes was an F, and I'd even put the Gordon signing at about a D. They have him for two more seasons, and there are signs he's breaking down. The backup catcher job became quite important to this team, and going with Fasano over an in-house candidate was an F to me.

Tough giving grades for waiver signings like Hernandez who played only a couple games. Endy Chavez wouldn't have had a place on the roster.

Clout, excellent job in putting together all the deals with your grading an analysis. I agree with most of your grades and where I don't agree, it's only to subjectively slide the grade up or down a little. Your post showed a lot of work and thought on your part. I really enjoyed it.

I may cut and paste in in another file, so I can refer to it again over the postseason.

While I certainly agree with most of those low grades, I think what I have to give Gillick credit for is at least missing in the short term. Considering all of the long-term problems Ed Wade created for this organization, I think it's fairly obvious that Gillick is trying to plug holes as best he can for a year or two until he can have more wiggle room with this team.

CLout, I agree with most of the grades (especially the Padilla move, the worst move of the Gillick era so far), but I think we have to consdier Gordon a B so far. The guy was signed for less than the price of an "A" reliever, and was very good for a long part of the season. IF he breaks down, I can see the grade being lower. If you consider the other options (paying a premium for Wagner or putting Geray or Madson in the closer role), I don't think it was such a bad move.

Also, I totally disagree with your analysis of Delucci/Tejeda. Tejeda gave up a WHIP of 1.56 and had only 8 more Ks than BBs this season. He cut down on his walks, but his K-rate plummeted, H/9 went up and HR rate doubled. He excelled down the stretch against the weak hitting AL West. I'm also interested in what league/park factors account for a .75 raise in ERA, especially considering that Citizens is not exactly a pitcher's paradise.

OTOH, Delucci had a .900 OPS this year and was the main catalyst for the Phillies resurgence after the Abreu trade. The guy is a poor outfielder and cannot hit lefties, but is a stud against RHP. I'd say it is an A at this point.

the thome trade is an A. many a philly fan would cry at night seeing howard on another team (which was the only alternative to moving thome).

we wouldn't have led the nl in runs w/o dellucci and we traded a bum to get him.

gordon is at least a B. he's an above average closer for a salary appropriate for market standards.

the nunez signing has to be a C. since noboby thought the guy was anything special to begin with. his glove at third is great. i completely disagree with the notion that the phil's can't get to the playoffs with him on our team. (see the cardinals when he was there). his obp from the 8 hole is fine.

padilla, while totally useless here, was ok in texas, and in hindsight it would have been nice to get something more for him. he will get a long term deal(probably from someone other than texas) and totally let himself go and stink for the rest of his career. (you can quote me on that later) that being said, i'd rather have the draft pick then what we got for him.

overall i don't think F's can be given on one year deals. they are obviously shot in the dark signings to begin with. the chan ho park, russ ortiz type signgings are F's. PG releasing a role player is no big deal.

Paul I checked out the Johnny Callison article. So sad to see that he died.

When I was in grade school, we had to write a paragraph composition. The subject was "if you could change your name, what would you change it to?" In my paragraph, I changed my last name to Callison. So sad.

Tim: Thome had to be traded. He didn't have to be traded for that group.

we got two guys that became our #2 and #3 pitching prospects and a guy that defines what philly wants in a baseball player?

i give the deal an A.

The Phillies would have been better off getting a relief pitcher in the Thome trade than Rowand, and Gonzalez didn't have a great debut in Double-A. Haigwood probably isn't a prospect. The best part of the deal was moving him early so it wasn't a distraction.

it's crazy that we are forgetting what rowand brought to this team. without his intensity i don't know that chase would be able to step up into the leadership role as he is. rowand is a player we all say we want everybody else to play like - he is a big part of turning this team into something worth cheering for.

Intensity aside, there was a lot of downside to having Rowand in the starting lineup. The offense was more dysfunctional than ever because of his strikeouts. He doesn't make contact, doesn't have great speed and doesn't have great power. In the field, he was an injury risk to teammates. After it was all said, I didn’t much care for the way he played, a style that twice landed him on the DL. He may bring clubhouse intensity, but I'd rather have the production to back it up.

Tim: Haigwood was never close to being the #3 prospect on anyon's list. You just make this stuff don't you?

Callison shouldve won the MVP in 64, and if it weren't for the #$$%$#@# collapse, and i promise ill never mention it again, he probably would have. Had a nice swing.

clout i've asked you before not to mess with me becusae i think you're an idiot, but unless i write for foxsports i don't think i make much up.

haigwood is number 108. this is behind number 67 mathieson, number 62 gonzalez and number 97 bourn. that would make haigwood our 3rd pitching prospect if he was still here. this is from this mid season (all i did was go to foxsports and search haigwood). even adding hamels to the list that would put haigwood at number 4 in the preseason - not so far off number 3 to say that i make anything up.

it's not even november and i can tell it's going to be a long offseason...

Thurston was removed from the Triple-A roster, so it is possible he has elected to become a free agent.

Tim: LOL! Yep, FoxSports fantasy baseball is sure a place I'd rely on for rating prospects!

J and Clout, you're way off base. Try to remember that Thome couldn't play in the NL at all; dealing from a complete lack of options he still got three bodies. Rowand is a grade C player; how in hell do you give the trade itself that grade when it 1) cleared $8 million a year of salary; 2) put a major-league player in CF (before the season Victorino was an unknown) and 3) added two pitching prospects. That's a B in my book.

You're similarly brain-addled with the Gordon grade. Tell you what -- if and when he can't pitch the next two years, then downgrade Gillick for the three-year deal. Until then, he gave about what you'd expect from a second-tier closer. And what's with giving a B for the Rheal Cormier salary dump? Germano a #4 starter? In whose fantasy league? The grade's not off, but your projection of what Germano will do is.

Gillick gets an F for the Abreu deal, for the stated reasons -- if you can't get better players back than that, just hang onto him until next July and see if anyone bites. Likewise, Padilla was a big problem for the Phils and they traded him for a nobody. Even with the reality that the team didn't want any parts of paying a salary his size, he could have gotten someone with an actual upside. Those two giveaways are enough to give him a very low grade overall -- a D, maybe a C- at best.

I understand you people are fans and all, but you shouldn't let it cloud your judgment so badly.

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