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Friday, October 06, 2006


Still waiting for contributions from 3B Rolen, and 3B Punto, but 3B R. Hernandez has pinch hit rbi, as does Julio Franco, who played some 3B this year with the Mets.

I'm with you, Jason. Two nights ago, I had the Yanks-Detroit game on with no sound and would occassionally glance at the score. I even cruised the dial to ESPN2 and watched a few frames of women's bowling on what looked like a makeshift single bowling alley lane in the middle of shopping center complete with manual pin setters. Last night I watched Supernatural with my family, later to watch a half inning of the Mets.

For me, I'm pulling for the team that gave me the least NL pain this year: St. Louis. In the AL, I'm pulling for the Twins and Tigers. I think I'm wasting my Karma on the Twins.

Mistake..R Martinez of Dodgers..and the forgetable Todd Jones

FYI: The official list of ex-Phillies in the postseason includes

Detroit: Jones, Polanco
NYY: Lidle, Abreu, Fasano
Minnesota: Punto, Silva
St. Louis: Hancock, Rolen, Bennett
NYM: Chavez, Franco, Tucker, Wagner
LA: Lofton, R. Martinez, Anderson

Jason: What's depressing about that list isn't the fact they're gone. It's the fact we've got nothing to show for them. As usual.

At least it won't be Rolen vs. Schilling in the World Series, like in 2004. Nothing was harder to swallow than that.

Josh Hancock, also forgetable. Wasn't he the guy that got released the very 1st day of this years spring training by the Reds, I think, cause he arrived very overweight?

The amazing thing about that list clout is that the BY FAR the best player the Phillies in exchange for any of those players was Von Hayes!

abreu just did what he did best for us: misplayed an important hit.

Regardless of weight issues, I bet the Reds wish they would have kept Hancock as he pitched decently all season long, right from the start.

Ex-Phillies making the playoffs. Reminds me of my Phillies Phlashback Phriday subject Doug Jones. As he came to the Phils in '94 right after our lst postseason experience.

Thought- if the MVP should come from a playoff team, that excludes Howard. However, the Phillies finished with a better record than the Cards, so shouldn't he still be considered? Howard is the NL MVP over Pujols in my opinion.

As much as I like Howard, and as much as I love the Phillies, Pujols' RISP numbers make him the MVP. I don't think, however, that this in any way diminishes Howard's great season; Pujols is just that freakin' good.

TOK: I agree, but I wouldn't be surprised if the sportswriters give the award to Howard instead. Because Pujols missed a couple of weeks, Howard's counting stats are higher. And it's not as if the Phils were also-rans; they were in contention right until the end. It's not like the awards to Andre Dawson and Cal Ripken, where the rest of the team sucked.

I think Pujols deserves the award because even with the time he missed, he was still more productive than Howard with both the glove and the bat. However, I think Howard's counting stats (as well as some sports writer's belief that Pujols will probably win another half-dozen of these things) will give Howard the edge. Howard had an absolutely amzing season and it would be deserving in almost any other recent, non-Bonds, season. Here's hoping sportswriters go with their heart over the numbers.

On an MVP-type note, anyone else see that Torre is batting A-Rod EIGTH tonight!! I thought Manuel played with Burrell's head too much, but that has nothing on this move. Another odd move is sitting Giambi for Cabrera despite lefties hitting .350 off Bonderman. Is the great master getting a little desperate?

I wonder how much of the decision on keeping Manuel had to do with money? Marzano mentioned that he is either the lowest or next to lowest paid manager in the NL.

who cares who the ex phils are and if Howard wins the MVP? THe most important thing is that this team once again fell a few games short of the playoffs. Making the playoffs and then winning something in them is the only thing that matters. I would personally take back a few of those homers from Howard for a somewhat reliable lefty in the pen down the stretch. Not having anyone in the backend of that pen really killed this team!

if gillick does not land at least two reliable end of the pen pitchers and a top flight 3rd baseman then i'm not going to renew my tickets for next year.

I want to see A-Rod, A-Ram or Beltre here playing 3rd. Nunez would be a great all purpose utility man much in the mold of Pie Man but he cannot be the starting 3rd baseman next year getting 400 abs and hitting .240 which is his lifetime average. Even as mediocre as Nunez was i still think the lack of any relievers other than Geary cost this team. Gordon's inability to pitch for an entire month also cost this team a few games when they had no closer. I cannot expect Gordon to be healthy next year so they better start thinking about turning someone into a closer for the future or next year given Gordon's health.

After looking back at this season i have decided that Burrell was not as big a problem as everyone made him seem this year. I was the first to rip into Pat but damn the guy is a productive player but no he is not worthy of being the #1 over pick and $10 million per year. If he were just a little more open to being interviewed and promoted he easily would've had this city in his palm 5 years ago. He just wasn't meant to be "the Man" here and he could easily be a very productive outfielder if he gets healthy and puts up his career averages of .255 27hrs and 95rbis. If you compare those to Schmidt they are not all that different. I'm not saying he is anywhere near the player Schmidt was but Pat can and is productive and not the PROBLEM with the Phillies.

The biggest problem for years has been the Management and they're unwillingness to spend some $. This should be an interesting off season for Management to show whether they want to win. They had a higer attendance this year and factor in higher ticket prices and payroll cuts means that Management pocketed some $ this year.

Dude, watching an amazing player like Howard is its own reward, and I like to see how p players that I watched a lot of fare in other enviroments. Personally, I just love the game of baseball and like watching it at any level. If you only watch baseball to root for your team to win and cannot recognize other aspects of the game that are enjoyable, then being a fan is really just a pathetic attempt to live vicariously through the accomplishments of others (otherwise known as being a football fan!)

Nicely put, kdon, but let me object to this analysis on its own level.

"I want to see A-Rod, A-Ram or Beltre here playing 3rd."

Sure, and I want Anna Nicole Smith to split her loot with me. Neither one is going to happen.

"Nunez would be a great all purpose utility man much in the mold of Pie Man but he cannot be the starting 3rd baseman next year getting 400 abs and hitting .240 which is his lifetime average."

Where would the Phillies play an "all-purpose utility man"? Why would he be better at that than racking up 400 AB at 3B, where he's above-average defensively? And your wording is poor. He "cannot" be the starting 3B? Wait and see. I'll wager the team brass disagrees with you.

"I cannot expect Gordon to be healthy next year so they better start thinking about turning someone into a closer for the future or next year given Gordon's health."

Doubtful. He's owed a barrell full of bucks, and he's going to start the season as the closer unless his arm is in danger of falling off. I also disagree with your assessment that the team had "no relievers other than Geary." Gordon did very well the first half of the season. The breakdown came from the usage pattern employed by Manuel; to be fair, there aren't two teams in baseball who know how to use a bullpen without burning it out.

"[Burrell] could easily be a very productive outfielder if he gets healthy and puts up his career averages of .255 27hrs and 95rbis. If you compare those to Schmidt they are not all that different."

No, but the context is wildly different. Schmidt's annual 36 HR usually led the league, because offense was harder to come by in the '70s. He also played a demanding defensive position; Burrell plays the spot where teams stash their weakest fielder.

"Making the playoffs and then winning something in them is the only thing that matters."

Thank you, Mr. Steinbrenner. I suggest you switch your allegiance to the Yankees.

Has anyone seen that Bonderman is throwing a no-no through five in Detroit? Go Tigers!

check that...damn cano. Still, it would be great to see the Yankees eliminated. If there's one thing I love almost as much as the Phillies, it's despising Steinbrenner's over-hyped mercenaries! At least the prospect of a Subway series is fading!

In the post-season, there is only one holy thing: To see the Yankees lose. That Placido Polanco has been a key player in making that happen makes it that much sweeter. Yes, I wish we'd kept him. Yes we traded him for a crappy setup guy (Urbina) who failed repeatedly in late season last year and now we have nothing to show for it. But that is the Phillies way.

Would you trade Burrell, Floyd & Mathieson to the Yanks for A Rod? I would.

Anyone catching J-Roll on the Fox coverage? I'd rather see him playing in October, but he's pretty solid on air.

Guess Abreu mentality is infectious. AHhha! Yanks lose. Now if the Mets get knocked out the World Series might be interesting.

Me and clout agree: "In the post-season, there is only one holy thing: To see the Yankees lose."

Tonight, we are both happy.

I hope Steinbrenner is crying in to his pillow as I type this. Also, I don't think I'd want to be Brian Cashman come Monday morning...

Re: Jason's list of ex-Phillies in the post-season, there's nothing depressing about the players on that list not being here any more. We never won anything with any of those guys. Name one of them you would want back here right now, and then tell me that that player would be the key addition to get the team to the post-season. Rolen? Perhaps if he's on an already good team.. Tell me he carried the Cardinals anywhere. Polanco? To play where, 3B? Maybe. I like Placido. Wagner? Had his chance and folded in the big games.

The fact is that these players happen to be on teams that made the post-season this year. That's all. See any MVPs there? Team leaders? Nada.

It's true that the Phillies got little in return for the players we gave away. But the really depressing thing is that we didn't take Jim Leyland when we had the chance. I think the Phillies would still be playing baseball right now.

Is there anything more totally sobering than a five-game, first-round playoff series to abruptly end a great season? The Yankees were riding high all year, never had an ounce of adversity or competition to overcome in the second half. The Dodgers rode multiple streaks and a seeming wave of momentum to a decisive wild-card victory. And the Twins came from nowhere to win the toughest division in baseball. And all of it's gone in one short week. Not even an LCS for teams that won 97 and 96 games. I think that's wrong. I'll say it another time: Baseball has too damn many playoff series. I want to see the best teams in the World Series, and a five-game opening series is *not* a good way to determine that.

Nevertheless, I can't say I'm crying too hard for Yankees fans. No, I can't say that at all. How does it feel to be HUMBLED for once? Too bad the Mets couldn't have gone down with them.

George: I think you'd take Rolen back. Take a moment and consider.

I heard George wants Chris Coste. Rumors seems that this "movie" in the works - George wants his paws all over it.... I heard he is willing to give us Sal back for Coste.

RSB- the way the playoffs are ran helps keep attendance up, plain and simple. More teams are in contention for longer period of the season. Also, I like it. Yes, it sucks that a team wins X amount of games and then is eliminated in 5, but if they were that good they'd be moving on.

I have no problem with having the "best" teams eliminated in the playoffs – often, in my opinion, the consensus "best" team isn't. This year's Yankees are a perfect example; all we heard about was the "murder's row" lineup, and how they were the best lineup to ever play, etc. The media was ready to annoint them as WS champs without a pitch being thrown. Heck, and I swear this is true, I heard some reporter ask Torre about who he was going to start in the WS, before the first pitch of the Tigers series was even thrown!

However, I'd like to go back to a 156-game regular season and make each round of the playoffs seven games. Five game series are just too short; lose one game and you're already behind the eight ball.

Other Kevin: I'm with you. Althought it was 154 games, not 156.
The problem with 5 games is that ANY team can get hot for that short a series. The Royals can beat the Yanks 3 of 5. That's baseball.
To rationalize it by saying "Well if the Yanks were good enough, they wouldn't have lost" is just plain silly. Great teams lose 4 or 5 game series to lousy teams all the time. Four of 7 is a lot tougher, however. I think quality generally prevails in a 7 game series.
That said, I don't think the Tigers winning is a fluke. They have great young pitching, with speed & power in the lineup, and, except for Robertson, a very solid rotation.

The Yanks losing could have an adverse effect on the Phillies. I heard on ESPN radio this morning speculation that Joe Torre would be fired and replaced with Lou Piniella.

I am bringing sexy back!

The Phillies clearly aren't in the market for Pinella, so I don't think that his possible hiring by the Yankees effects them either way.

And yeah, 154 games. My bad.

the Mrs. was taught how I bring sexy back all afternoon.

Lake Fred- you da man! Now you need to go "rock your body" too!

Those last two posts attributed to me are not mine. My last post was about Lou Piniella.

FoxSports quoted: "We have heard from absolutely no one from the Yankees' organization, so as far as we're concerned, it's all speculation," said Piniella's agent, Alan Nero. "Lou is seriously considering the four jobs that are open."

Four job openings. There should have been a fifth one on Philly. PG blew it.

What a whirlwind day in Eagle land huh?

RSB, I would love to have Rolen back at 3B, but Scott Rolen the Cardinal is not Scott Rolen the Phillie. By that I mean that certain players do well in certain situations, situations that make them comfortable. Rolen prefers the midwest, and he enjoys living and playing there. No matter how good his numbers in SL, you cannot simply transpose them to Philly, even if the Phillies had a similar lineup surrounding him. He just would never be happy here.
That's why it's often quite unfair to criticize a trade where the player traded does very well after the move. It's often the move that generates the improvement. You keep the player and he nevers pans out. It's not a question of misjudging talent, or poor managing, it's just the individual circumstances working against you. So it was to some degree with Rolen.
(And hasn't he been benched for the critical game 4?)

Benched because he was hurt...

Rolen *was* perfectly happy in Philadelphia until the turf began to eat his back alive, and then Bowa moved back into town. He *could* have been happy were the circumstances different. It wasn't the city; in the end, it was the organization. People want to take it personally and think Rolen hates Philadelphia, and I just don't believe that was the case. He put up some awfully good numbers as a Phillie, by the way. Didn't hit .300 the way he does now, but I think he just as easily could have spent the entirety of his Hall of Fame career in Philly, were the Phillies a competent franchise.

I can't believe people still want blame Rolen that it didn't work out for him here. The Phillies screwed it up for him, and for all of us.

From what I ever saw of Rolen's personality, I wouldn't think he would be the type of person to 'hate' anyone.
And there is a lot of truth in what you say about the Phillies organization at that time, writing a dark, rudderless, cheap and frustrating chapter in the team's history.
Still, Rolen always struck me as the type of player that says, to paraphrase Roy Hobbs, "I just want to play ball". I don't know if this town would have allowed that, given the need for a hero and team leader at the time, even if the franchise had been more enlightened.
He found his true home in SL, where the fans did indeed just 'let him play ball'.
Our loss.

Now that we are down to four teams, I still have teams to pull for. I'd like to see Detroit and NOT see the Mets in the WS. Go Tigers! Go Cards!

George S, with the exception of Rolen's amazing 2004 season, he *was* just as good here as he is in St. Louis. It wasn't lije he was some project we traded away, he was already a star. Also, considering he was only 27 when he was traded, it's not surprising that he had a one breakout year after he left.

If the Phillies had brought in a player like Thome or Wagner when Rolen was around, it would have changed a lot.

Torre back or not, I'd be willing to bet that Mr. Rodriguez is not at the hot corner in New York next year. Just another atrocious post-season. What kind of $ numbers remain on his contract? Since we know that the MLBPA won't allow him to take a paycut to play elsewhere, it's going to take some serious cap-clearing by someone to land him. I'm sure the Yanks will be willing to help pay, too.

ARod has a not-trade clause. He's owed bazillions, and while i'm sure that Steinbrenner would pick up some of the tab, I dont know who ARod would approve a trade to.

Rodriguez's salary is actually very reasonable for a future Hall of Famer. Yankees owe him four years at $64M with Texas' contribution - that's $16M per year.

If I'm not mistaken, Texas ate part of ARod's contract when they traded him to NY. Phils might be able to get him for a fire-sale price if Steinbrenner is ready to make wholesale changes. But ARod might only waive the no-trade clause if he were moved back to SS. In any case, it's not likely the penny-pinchers in the front office would pursue a player of ARod's caliber when they already have Nunez under contract for $2.1M in '07.

What a great celebration in The Motor City on Saturday night. Great victory for the team and the city! It was disheartening to think that Leyland could have been at the helm for the Phils. Instead, those bumbling incompetents settled for a manager not likely to ruffle the feathers of Montgomery & Co.

Thanks ae!!! George might even be willing to eat some of the $64M in his distressed state.

Phils need to act fast before Steinbrenner comes to his senses!!!

VOR, how sweet would it be? Unfortunately, you nailed it when you noted Nunez's salary. As poor as season as he had and as far as ownership is concerned, Abe has better "numbers" (i.e. the $ kind) than A-Rod. These Phils were competitive without Rodriguez and they'll be damned if getting much better will eat into their profit margin that much.

Los Angeles would be an ideal escape for A-Rod. There is no chance he would come here. I'm sure ex-Phil Bobby Abreu already prepped him.

I would put it at better than even money that Rodriguez goes to LA - he gets to hit with Guerrero, and nobody gives a damn whether he chokes or not because nobody gives a damn about baseball. I understand that the Angels actually have very good high-level prospects at third and short (plus Cabrera), but come on - you find a way to fit a guy like Rodriguez.

I was actally thinking the other LA, but yeah, I could see that, too.

didn't even think of the Dodgers, but they could use a slugger even more than the Angels. wonder if that would make Betemit available? I'd take him over Nunez.

The Dodgers are in great shape to make trades. They have Andy LaRoche on deck at third, and Betemit would be attractive to a team like the Phils. If I'm Colletti, I trade prospects in areas where there's redundancy and make a play at a guy like A-Rod. I think we'll finally see the Yankees try to get younger pitchers this offseason.

I think that it's fairly obvious that A-Rod very much needs to go back to playing SS – he's the best SS in the game, and an average 3B. That being said, (at least) four things will keep him out of Philadelphia:

1. Ruthless Press – what makes anyone think the press in Philly would be any easier on him than in NY? He clearly doesn't do well in the limelight, and you know that he'd be "the man" in Philadelphia.

2. Money – I just don't see the Phillies ponying up the $16M per year that A-Rod has left.

3. Pitching – I don't think the Phils have enough to trade to get A-Rod, and I'm not sure if I'd want to anyway. Pitching is truly at a premium at the major league level.

4. Given that A-Rod needs (and likely wants) to be back at SS, I can't see moving Jimmy.

It'd be great to have a bat like A-Rod's in the lineup, no doubt, but I've just got to think that it's a real long-shot for the Phillies to get him.

A-Rod isn't coming to the Phillies. Gillick gave me another call today and told me that A-Ram is what he's going for. I advised him to start at 5 years 60 mil., but Gillick said he wants to low-ball him first to play some hardball. I like Gillick, he's old-school!

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