Part of

« Check your expectations at the door | Main | Beer nuts: Mazone gets the ball Wednesday »

Monday, September 04, 2006


Phew. Finally.


RSB: A lot of revisionist history from you. I guess I need to go back and pull up all your old posts and post 'em again.

You're right RSB, even if Borkowski grooved one, Utley still crushed it; if he comes out of his slump, the Phils are looking very, very I have to decide whether to go to my friends' labor day party or watch SD/COL tonight...dammit, looks like another unproductive September!

Drink and be merry kdon. Hahaha!!!

clout, I think RSB is actually on the record as saying dellucci is better than burrell. And he is on the record as saying dellucci can't be expected to go into an 0-40 slump on the bais of dellucci's career stats, instead he went like 7 for 53 with twice as many SOs than hits.

I do remember an RSB comment that argued for Roberson over Burrell early in the season, but I think that was after a couple called third stikes so it may have been hyperbole :-)

That much I did say. I didn't see Dellucci's mega-slump coming, so I guess that assessment was premature. Over a full season, though, I think he and Burrell would measure up fairly well.

Petty, tiresome arguments about the same old damn players aside, that was a very important win when it looked like they were going back on their heels in front of the big crowd, the pressure to win, etc. I was thinking while Utley was up that it was probably going to take a homerun to decide the game, considering how poor both teams were executing...and no sooner than I had the thought did the ball scream of his bat.

Good call BloodStipes...I think I've had enough baseball for one day, and I don't want to ruin an evening by having to root for the Rockies. Instead, I'll go out and piss off everyone in Boston by pointing out the fact that the PHillies have a better chance to make the playoffs than the Red SOx!!

Great day of baseball, kind of game when I'm really happy Beerleaguer exists!

Yeah, the one thing I probably *deserve* to not live down is my big push for Roberson as the left fielder. That's not looking too great about now.

You bet. Talk it up. Its a good day for the Phils. Have fun!

I'm sorry I had to miss innings 7-through-10. That's great to see Utley come through; I was starting to worry.

The Abreu debate is an all-timer, but there's one thing we can all agree on. He's no longer here, and this roster isn't even close to the one they had July 30, the day he was traded.

Actually, the only part Abreu had to play today was Matt Smith, who I'm happy to see contributed to the win. It's literally the first, tangible, non-monetary benefit to the Abreu/Lidle deal since it happened, so I think it's worth a mention. I think he got into an earlier game, but was a non-factor. I thought he had a chance to be a useful pickup as early as this season, and I recall the Phillies said so as well.

How about that Rick White, folks? Dumped by the Reds and claimed off waivers, and having a better go of it than Franklin and Cormier. Banner year for getting players off waivers or in trades after they clear waivers. Pretty unique.

I saw Pat Burrell's at bats and I was not pleased. Needless to say, he's not someone I ever count on against good pitching, and I'll leave it at that. He still doesn't have a hit off Houston at CBP.

Last, Cole Hamels is really special. That was an outstanding, outstanding performance in a huge game 1. Finally, they beat the damn Astros.

Putting Thurston in to bunt is a crappy move. If Manuel AND RSB want to do something-look out! Disaster is not far away.

It may be that RSB and Chollie don't have to call their wives for directions home from work every night, but I wouldn't be surprised. At least RSB can operate a computer.

Sabermetric research (see Baseball Between the Numbers) shows that the first to second bunt is a dumb play anyway-it reduces your chances of scoring even one run. Besides, if you're so sure Burrell won't hit when you need him, why start him at all?

RSB talks about "petty" arguments, but since he's always judging players on personalities instead of facts, he's started a lot of these dumb arguments. He's been on the wrong side of every discussion (Victy/Rowand, Abreu v. anybody, etc.) on every Phillies' blog.

He's probably a big Hillary fan too.

I forgot to mention another all time classic bit of silliness from the Howard Cosell of Phillies' blogs-"Over a full season, though, I think he and Burrell would measure up fairly well." Go to Baseball Reference, RSB. Look the two guys up.

David Dellucci isn't REMOTELY comparable to Pat Burrell as a player. Not even close. And Pat's three years younger. Dellucci, as someone said above, is now reverting to the mediocre player he's always been. In fact David's career adjusted OPS is 100-dead average. That said, for the right price I'd like to bring him back year, but come on.

Dellucci's a nice fourth outfielder who had a good season last year. Before that, he was nothing more than a low-grade spare part. Pat would be a welcome contributor to most any offense. Even if he were on a stacked team like the White Sox, he could probably bat sixth. And in the National League, he's all the more valuable. I've been frustrated with him at times because his production doesn't seem to entirely match up to his talent, but I don't see why anyone would care to bash him- much less Abreu.

I was at this game and it was a great win. However, the Thurston bunt was a terrible call. First, if you're going to bunt, use Wolf. Thurston is a chump. Second, with Howard on first and the fielders about 30 feet away, there's an excellent chance he's getting thrown out at second. Third, PAT F*CKING BURRELL. Give the guy a chance! He gets a hit there and he's riding high, and the fans are off his back for a bit. They really rode him the whole game (more than necessary in my opinion). Burrell is still more important to this team than anyone Manuel uses in his place. Also, Delucci's at-bat for Nunez was ATROCIOUS. Almost any contact would have scored the run, and the way things are going lately, I have more faith in Nunez to make contact there and get the run in. Also, I no longer have any confidence in Ryan Madson, and most of the crowd seemed to feel the same. Of course, Ryan Howard and Cole Hamels have me totally excited for the future of this team. Both are just amazing. Hopefully Chase can get back on form after his recent burst of homers.

Note that the Phils had 44,000 for their game today (including 10,000 walkups) and the Reds only drew 26,000.

Who says Philadelphia isn't a great baseball town?

The rebound in attendence has been one of the nicer surprises, and now we're past the point of interleague, Barry Bonds and big promotions, and the crowds are still there. Howard, Cole, Rocket are excellent attractions, but the park itself is a wonderful experience. They're getting repeat customers, but it's nothing to swing by and catch a game on a lark. The cheapest seats at the walk-up are $12. You can't beat it.

Sigh. In terms of power production, which is what we're really measuring Burrell by, since it's the only thing he does reasonably well besides stand in thge batters box like a drooling zombie: Dellucci's 29 homers in 435 ABs last season compares favorably to Burrell's 32 in 532 ABs. I have *no idea* why some people cling to the idea that Burrell is this enormously productive player and sacred entity - but if you look at it that way, is the comparison really so far off the mark?

Yes, I know it still will be, because you say it is and because I'm illogical.

As for the pinch-hitting controversy, again I ask why you're overlooking that *had the bunt been put down, the Phillies would have won the game in the ninth*. You're only spitting all over this strategy because the play wasn't executed. Burrell's bat has been slow, Qualls was throwing hard, it's a strikeout or DP waiting to happen. Give him a chance? Why, so he can stand there and take strikes like he did with the bases loaded in the fourth? Have any of you noticed how godawful and completely punchless Burrell has been in this homestand?

And John, really, don't lower the standards of Beerleaguer by bringing political references into this. It's just embarrassing to everyone.

Some questionable managerial strategy, and some poor performances in the field and at the plate, but a very entertaining game, on a day when they really needed to win.

I really don't know if Burrell has anything in the tank, given the last five games.

We wouldn't all be Beerleaguers if we didn't debate the merits of a wasted PH AB in a game with a happy outcome, but please don't bother with political arguments here. Embarrassing and nauseating. So much great baseball left in a fight to the finish and that has to be thrown in?

Regarding the Dellucci versus Burrell debate: IMHO, if he is not injured, Dellucci is the worst defensive outfielder I have seen in red pinstripes since Pete Incaviglia. Is DD injured? The man simply cannot throw at all.

Last Thursday's game in DC is a perfect example. Two of the slowest runners in the league, Brian Schneider and Nick Johnson, score easily from second on mediocre singles and DD cannot make either play close.

By no means do I overestimate Burrell's productivity. I just think your starting leftfielder and five-hole hitter deserves his AB in that spot over an obviously AAA caliber player who can't get a bunt down in three shots. Again, if you're going to bunt, FIND SOMEONE WHO CAN.

RSB, I agree with you most of the time and enjoy your comments here. I think you're a little hard on Burrell. He's just not going to be the player he was expected to be coming out of Miami. Still, he's better than anyone else they throw in his place, including Dellucci. There's such a thing as a career year, and David may have had his last year. He's a nice fourth outfielder.

Agreed on the politics, of course.

RSB-So you admit to being a Hillary sycophant! I knew it.

Seriously, Burrell also gets a lot of walks. They have value as well. Burrell takes pitches, wears down pitchers (and somtimes fans' patience), and is still a valuable bat.

Dellucci's year in '05 is so out of line with his career numbers it's not worth talking about. Again, the point about David is that he's now reverting to his mean. I see you didn't take my advice and look up the two players' career numbers. They're not even close.

I'm not a big believer in bunting, and the evidence is that, as I mentioned, the first to second bunt's not a good play.

BTW, who said anything about politics?

I was talking about Sir Edmund Hillary:

Calm down people (liberals!-haha)

RSB's argument, as usual, is dishonest. He says "had the bunt been put down, the Phillies would have won the game in the ninth." As if Burrell couldn't possibly have done something to advance the runner.
Last month, Burrell had an OPS of .859. He's had exactly 11 ABs this month and only 2 hits. Based on this evidence, our resident laughingstock declares "Burrell's bat has been slow, Qualls was throwing hard, it's a strikeout or DP waiting to happen."

Clout-You know I rarely agree with RSB, but "dishonest" is a little strong. His problem is that he thinks he can read people's minds and discern whether they're "gamers" or not.

Poor methodology, but hardly "dishonest."

Good Phillies win today, and other games with playoff implications. Let's discuss that.

On a lighter note, how about Rick White's now automatic call back to the dugout to talk to Howard? I've never heard of a middle reliever/ridiculous power hitter relationship like that. Makes me even happier when White is pitching as well as he has.

Geez-you'd think it was Jason's blog or something.

I see the Rockies are still ahead of the Madres, 5-4 in the top of the 7th.

I don't have a lot of faith in getting a win tomorrow, although of course it would be nice. Looking ahead to the future, anyone know who's penciled in to pitch on wednesday as of now?

Also, I have a feeling the Fish series this weekend is gonna be a watershed series for the playoff push (although a case can be made for all of the series). The Fish are redhot, and hopefully ready to cool.

John Salmon: One certainly need not be a "Hillary fan", to believe that this crude political reference in your earlier post has absolutely no place, whatsoever, on this site. Your snide "liberals" reference foolishly betrays your own crude and cliqued view of politics, and needlessly distracts from the focus of this board -- Phillies baseball. Your infestation of the above baseball-oriented discussion of a great Phillies win this afternoon is not a joke (ie., your "ha ha" reference above), and was unwelcomed by all who have commented in this thread about it. I hope, for the sake of our Phillies baseball discussion community on this excellent board, not to see any more like political comments by you, or anyone else. If you want to talk politics, go ahead respond to this post, by clicking on my handle in blue print, and we'll talk politics, but not here.

Well, the Padres were down 5-4 in the bottom of the ninth... but one Josh Barfield hit a three-run homer off the rockies closer. It's going to be tough to make up these 1.5 games, especially the way the Marlins are playing these days.

Since we're talking recent numbers, for the month of September:

David Dellucci:
9 AB, 0 H, 1 BB, 4 K, 0 R, 0 RBI, .100 OPS

Pat Burrell:
11 AB, 2 H, 4 BB, 4 K, 3 R, 1 RBI, .557 OPS

Jimmy Rollins (just for fun):
20 AB, 5 H, 3 BB, 5 K, 2 R, 5 RBI, .720 OPS

No HRs for any of them.

Clout, you know you've gone too far when even John Salmon defends me.

That's probably the first clutch home run ever hit by anybody named Barfield.

No starter still scheduled for Wednesday. Not even a pencil mark there. Mathieson is my crystal ball guess.

I can get the Padres flagship station on AM where I am located and there is some moxie and hubris definitely going on there, beyond the announcers. Phils starters keep racking up innings and K's, and guys like Woody Williams are showing all 40 of his years, even against the Rockies. Put it this way - there is no King Cole in that clubhouse...

The thing is, I think clout is right more often than RSB, but I almost always prefer RSB's tone.

Still, you both bring a welcome perspective to the board. Keep going after each other's arguments, but keep it civil, please.

Gee davthorn73-your comment is so over the top, it's hard to know how to respond.

"Your infestation of the above baseball-oriented discussion of a great Phillies win this afternoon is not a joke (ie., your "ha ha" reference above), and was unwelcomed by all who have commented in this thread about it."

"Infestation"? No need to comment on the excess there. And what does "unwelcomed" mean?

Referring to RSB as a Hillary fan WAS a joke. I don't know anything about his politics, nor do I care to know. He is the so-called injured party, yet his response has been infinitely more reasonable (and reasoned) than yours.

Brian Mazone to start Wednesday against the Astros against Wandy Rodriquez. Tough spot for a 30 year old minor minor league lifer. I was expecting Germano. Tells you how far someone like Gavin Floyd has fallen.

John Salmon: By "unwelcomed", I meant the several comments above by others in this thread, in response to your absurd and completely-out-of-place "Hillary fan" comment, where others emphasized that references to politics do not belong on Beerleaguer. I will reference the comments serially, if you require refreshment of your present recollection. By "unwelcomed", I also mean your faux apology in your subsequent post, in which you again injected politics into this baseball discussion, by using the word "liberals." So, as far as I am concerned, "Mission Accomplished."

Billy Mac, where did you find Mazone will start Wednesday? I figured since the Red Barons made the playoffs he would not be available. Either it would be a bullpen game or a AA Reading pitcher such as Gio Gonzalez, Allen Davis, or JA Happ.

Mazzone has great numbers this season at Scranton Wilkes-Barre and looks like a good choice to spot start on Wednesday: 13-3 record, 2.03 ERA, 20 games, 20 starts, 128.1 innings pitched, 108 hits, only 6 home runs given up all season, 85 strikeouts, and 36 walks.

Bob D -- Mazone starting Wednesday is reported in both today's Inquirer and Daily News.

Has anyone compared schedules of the Pods and Fish compared to us? not looking good.

does anyone know what happened to the "Everybody Hits!! Whoo-Hoo" guy who sat behind home plate?

if yer lucky, you can still here him...

is he phillies version of the cubbies ronny woowoo?

I don't think the schedules are that out of whack. The phils don't have the easy ride we all thought they would since the Fish have gotten hot, but it doesn't mean they're not vulnerable. Padres schedule isn't easy, but it isn't hard. They should run out the phils or the Marlins, unless one of the two (obviously hopefully the phils) win 7 of 10 from the other this month.

The marlins also face the Mets 7 times this month, although by the second, 4 game series the Mets should have everything tied up.

The first half of this month is when the phils have the best shot. The Pads play Col, SF, Cin, LAD and should accumulate some losses.

I've been out of the loop the last few days with Labor day weekend activities, then my daughter was on the PC all last night doing homework. I just finished reading the epic Clout vs. RSB battles with side action by John Salmon and Davthom. I'm glad I wasn't participating.

My New Orleans cable gives us FSN which carries Astros games, so I was able to see the Phillies game on Monday. After the game, the Houston announcers zeroed in on Rick White's strikeout for the second out with a man on third as the critical play for them, causing them to lose the game. I agreed. I'm not one who has much faith in the Bearded Cue Ball, but his strikeout was impressive.

Utley's game winning homerun was awesome, not one of those barely over the fence jobs, but a sonic blast. The Houston announcers didn't even call it as a home run. They merely said dejectedly, "Houston loses" as Utley was running past second base.

Not to ignite WWIII on Burrell, because I can rarely watch him play, but every time I see him bat, he usually strikes out. Based on the commentary, he must be Superman when I don't see him.

can someone answer me in English?

Burrell is what I like to call a "NAM". A "Non Adjustment Maker".

Add that to the fact that he hasn't been able to turn on just about everyone's fastball in the last month or so. I know his wrist and foot are messed up, but right now he couldn't hit in the Berks County American Legion League.

The Phils can take the wild card lead by beating up the Marlins and Astros. The Padres schedule pits them against teams that have records simular to their own and within their division. they maybe lucky to play around 500 against them.
The Phils have been encouraging lately. The only games they lost were ones they should have won. With Gordon back they should be much stronger.

Paul wrote "does anyone know what happened to the "Everybody Hits!! Whoo-Hoo" guy who sat behind home plate? "

At the Vet, he was right behind the microphones that are attached to the backstop to pick up game sounds for radio and TV. At CBP, these seats are now in the diamond club. Last year, I saw (and heard him) in section 118. You couldn't really hear him any longer on radio or TV since he was too far away from the game mics. When I go to the game on Wed, I'll see if he is still there. He didn't go to every game, but he attended quite a few.

thank you. that actually made some sense.

The "Everybody Hits" guy was asked never to come back to a Phillies game because he was annoying.

The comments to this entry are closed.

EST. 2005

Top Stories


Rotoworld News

Follow on Twitter

Follow on Facebook

Contact Weitzel