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Friday, July 28, 2006

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No Burrell in the lineup again. Delucci leading off. What's going on here?

Either Rollins is dinged or Gillick is calling the shots and showcasing some players.

Maybe the Phillies are forcing Burrell to rethink his no-trade stance? As in, hey Pat, we'll give you plenty of time to consider expanding the breadth of teams you'll approve a trade to while your pinstriped posterior is nailed to the bench.

Then again, the Phillies have a Pat Burrell cap giveaway on August 13. Hmm.

Seriously, who cares what you can get for Abreu? The idea is just to turn the page. I'll gladly take single-A prospects. I'll even take Sal Fasano back. Just say good-bye, Bobby.

way to go Utley, the only remaining reason to watch this team/game.

Once again the phils will lose a winnable game behind Myers.

I heard that Rollins was gonna sit out this game too. So, I'm not worried until he doesn't play tomorrow.

Who knows what's up with Pat. Probably a sore foot again, or they're shopping Dellucci. Maybe a little bit of both.

RSB: I've never seen anyone as interested in having losing seasons the next 5 years as you are. Are you a secret Mets fan?

The Marlins are a great contrast to the Phillies. The young players they get for veterans, like Ramirez, Jacobs, Sanchez, are ready to perform. Their farm system produces a reliable flow of talent, like Nolasco, Hermida & Olsen, that doesn't crack under major league pressure.
Compare that to the young players the Phillies get when they trade veterans and how most of the players from their farm system react when they reach the bigs.

David Bell (Brewers) for Wilfrido Laureano (Lakewood A).

Laureano Stats this year for the West Virginia Power (A).

6'6" 175lbs 22yrs 03-04-1984
W3 L2 4.10 29Games 63.2innings 36Walks 62Strikeouts

Basically we got nothing for Bell, I guess it is addition by subtraction.

Sad thing is that the FA market for 3B is horrendous this year. Bell is actually one of the best FA available this year at 3B. Unless Phils make a trade, I don't see how they improve this position next year. I weep for future if Nunez is allowed to play everyday.

Wilfrido Laureano wad a 3-2 record with a save and a 4.27 ERA over 25 appearances before being placed on the suspended list. The reason for his suspension has not been released.

Suspended you BAD BOY...

A 22 year-old pitcher struggling in low-A? Come on, Pat. I hope you can do better than this.

not that it makes a big difference, but ESPN is reporting this guy to have a 3.96 ERA over 29 appearances, not 4.27 over 25.

sorry here's the link:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2533196

my own opinion is that this was a guy we were going to release after this season. So assuming that a) this season is over anyways, b) we weren't going to re-sign Bell anyways and c) this was the best offer to come in....

I don't really mind. Who knows? maybe we'll see scales now. HA

I guess I agree, Will. Bell really had little value to the Phils at this point. Still, what a boring move.

It is boring, but after the Hillenbrand and Betemit trades went through, I'm guessing the demand at 3rd dropped off significantly. And even though someone said that the FA this year is horrible, when the demand is even lower, you're not gonna get much.

Boring? Best deal he could get for any team marginally contending. At least he wasn't a hothead pitcher getting marooned in Kansas City...

Well I guess that PG had to start somewhere.

How underwhelming!

I have a feeling another shoe is about to drop, Nunez isn't the answer, no way.

Underwhelming to say the least. Was there any chance Bell would have been type b or c free agent and Phils would have received compensation pick at year end ?

At least utley extended his hitting streak only thing to look forward to

Ding-Dong! The Bell tolls not for thee! C'mon, people! Are you kidding? I'm about to throw a party here! A single-A player? Great! Fine! Who cares! All I know is I don't have to watch David Bell's grimacing, dour face any longer!

You see, Clout, I say bring on those losing seasons, if in fact that's what subtracting players like Bell or Abreu actually means (though I don't think it does at all). I say bring on those 100-loss Phillies of 2007. Just so long as it's not the same miserable, failed bunch of losers we've been stuck with for the past five. I'm beyond sick of this bunch. I would *gladly*, yes gladly watch a team with actual spirit lose 90 games than watch an overpaid, underachieving group of retreads snooze their way to 80-85 wins. Bring it on. All I ask for as a fan of the Philadelphia Phillies, is some kind of change, is any kind of direction away from what we've been seeing. This is a hell of a sweet first step in my mind, even if I am going to miss all those scintillating double plays.

Wouldn't we have been better off keeping Bell, letting him sign somewhere else and get the draft pick for him?

"Throw the baby out with the Bathwater" RSB as the pay goes down the money goes into the pockets of the gang of ten. Now I get it! RickScuBlues is the illegitimate son of Bill Giles with the family's French Maid! As the Phightens save money by dumping Abreu, you and Daddy Bill will have more money to go to nice places like Italy!

As for type B or C free agent Billy Mac, we would have had to offer arbitration to Bell, which would have been a big risk he may have taken it.

I think this move rocks, along with Fasano, moving along under performers who will not be with us in 2007 is excellent. Fingers Crossed Boys that White Sox AAA 3rd Baseman Fields is on his way in the next trade.

Dumping people with high ON BASE, high RBI, and high Pitches per AB, for nothing (because Ed Wade was a sucker and over paid Abreu and Burrell), will not bring us happiness in 2007 and beyond.

2 Great Moves Pat... now come out and tell us that Dallas Green was an idiot and turned you against Vincente, resign the Padilla Flotilla as a Free Agent, and all will be forgiven.

Seriously. Yeah. Getting *anything* for Fasano and Bell is something. Even if they don't reach the majors, they make the minors better. They make the Phils try new things. They give guys with potential a chance. Maybe some random young guy they trade for pans out. Stranger things have happened. But Bell & Fasano were not going to pan out. That's why these deals are great. That's why a deal for any of their stale veterns -Abreu included- would be welcomed and helpful.

The two players acquired in the Fasano/Bell deals are pretty inconsequential at this point. Won't help the Phils next this season or next. Basically, I will be really surprised if either one of them has any kind of meaningful MLB career but it is difficult to say since both are so young and inexperienced.

I really think the Phils are going to get next to nothing for Lidle or Leiber. Monitored the Red Sox blogs and supposedly Gillick asked for either Hansen or Lester for Lieber. If true, Gillick is crazy. In fact, if the Phils want the Red Sox to pick up Lieber's 2007 salary ($7.5 million), they can expect almost nothing in return. Best I have heard is maybe David Murphy (outfielder) and a marginal pitching prospect. Honestly, Phils will probably get more for Lidle than Lieber due to Lieber's age and contract.


you padilla guys make me want to vomit. you're looking at stats from this year instead of using your eyes from what you saw of him when he was actually here. (that's nothing personal - it's actually padilla that makes me want to vomit) go ahead and listen to bill conlin - the man who didn't vote for nolan ryan, and never saw a move he could praise at first, but later question.

as for rsb wanting to lose i could not disagree more - i would bet my morgage that this EXACT phillies team, w/ victorino and dellucci in the corners and zito and burhle in the rotation, would NOT lose 90 games next year. same money just swapping 30 million dollars around.

Obviously lester or Hensen, guys who already pitching at the ML level would be hard to get. I'd settle for Pauley in the AAA. He had three starts this year with mixed results.

And as far as the Red Sox bloggers, they're kind of out there some times. They all thought getting Jake Peavy would be a bad thing.

Tim: Compare Padilla's tenure here, his average numbers, to the stats of the current Phillies rotation. Also, what factual basis do you have that Buerhle or Zito will be Phillies next year? Given the demand, and given the Phillies history, I think the chances of either landing here is zero. The trouble with guys like you and RSB is you want to rip it up but have no intelligent, realistic plan to replace it.

I can find no listing of Laureano on any of the scouting sites. He's not among the Brewers top 20 prospects. Still, the Phillies minors is pretty thin and maybe lightning will strike. Everyone needs organizational filler and now we get to see Nunez as a full-time player. I believe he's signed for 2 years.

wow clout - i think you're getting alittle too far out there. my evidence of buerhle, zito etc is MONEY. i don't know if you've heard of it, but it's the green stuff that makes the world go round and superstars like jim thome sign in philly. it's the same stuff that took ryan and burnett and molina to toronto just last year (does that town have a history of getting every superstar they want?) i'm sorry that you don't find wanting to replace two overpaid outfielders with top of the line pitchers as intelligent.

maybe you should check your premise.

since my plan isn't intelligent or realistic, what, exactly is yours?

Tim: So you think the Phillies will outbid every other team for Zito and Buerhle AND that they would want to sign with us. Good luck with that! LOL
P.S. My plan is to get actual true value for the players they trade. I know that's not important to you since you just want to dump them, but it really does help.

joe & dave will love this: Why not try Coste everyday at 3B? We already know what Nunez is, the same thing he was before his freak season last year. Unlike joe & dave I don't think Coste will hit .300 with 20 HRs but I do think he could hit better than Nunez. The glove I'm not so sure about.

it's what we did with thome and what every team has done to sign every free agent.

i like your plan though. very specific, realistic and intelligent.

Tim: Check your history. Thome was given the big money because the Phils were about to open a new ballpark that meant a big increase in revenue. They jacked up the payroll for Thome. Do you think this ownership will do that now?

if they trade abreu or burrell they can get those pitchers without increasing payroll.
that's the whole point!

do you really think gillick signed up to be the gm of ed wades team for three years? PG's got 116 regular season wins and back-to-back world championships and he's trying to move them, i'd rather be on his side than yours.

Good fricken bye David "fairy feet" Bell. I have read that Nunez is now the starter at 3rd, but that should not be for long. Thurston, Scales, or Ruiz should be called up from Scranton to fill the roster spot for now. I say, call Ruiz up and let him get some more experience behind the plate for next season and allow Chris "East -vs- West" Coste to man 3rd. I'm so happy Bell is gone!

Now who moves next? My guess is Lidle because other clubs like his "gutsy" quality. Dellucci should field some decent offers too. I would love to see Rowand traded back to the ChiSox for a prospect. This season is a loss and next season may be too...or we could start rebuilding and let young hungry kids play ala Marlins and be happier...well I'd be happier!

Tim: I'd say Pat Gillick's track record lately is pretty mediocre. I'd also say he doesn't share your dump 'em for nothing philosophy. Also, you have no clue what the market will be for those 2 pitchers and whether clearing Abreu & Burrell's salaries would pay for them. Or if they'd even consider signing here.
P.S. Drama: Neither Scales nor Thurston is a major league player or ever will be. But I do like the idea of bringing up Ruiz and trying Coste at 3B. If the Phils had shown any where close to the Marlins judgment on young players I'd be as optimistic as you are. But they haven't.

Clout- please don't mistake my comments as optimistic, I'm far from that!

And if Abe "No Hit" Nunez is a MLB player, then why the hell can't Scales or Thurston be? If they fail, so what? If they succeed then awesome!

As Clout surmised, I think that giving Coste a shot (more than just one or two isolated starts) at 3B would be a good idea. Even though catcher has always been Coste's first position (he was the final Red Sox cut as a catcher out of 2003 ST before being seriously injured in a home plate collision the first week of that season at Pawtucket), as you know, Coste was the International League's AAA All-Star third baseman for S-WB last season. But I also think that Coste should be given more catching playing time right now, and I can see no reason why Coste couldn't be played at both positions at this point.

Tim, you're off your rocker on both ends of your premise. First, throwing money at two of the three FA pitchers is no guarantee you'll get either one, and second, Gillick doesn't like doing it anyway. With good reason. Neither pitcher impresses me as a true No. 1 starter, and you'd have to pay them like one to entice them to a bandbox like ours. I agree we should pursue them; I disagree with dumping Burrell and Abreu before we get them.

Second, you're smoking something strong if you think Dellucci and Victorino could replace Abreu and Burrell. Victorino hits like a CF -- .333 OBP (very few walks), .410 SLG. He's basically a duplicate of Aaron Rowand, only faster and better defensively. That's whom he should replace; he'd be a big offensive dropoff from Abreu. Dellucci had a standout year last year and looks good this year, but he's 32, the same age as Abreu, and an age when decline starts to set in soon. You could replace Burrell with him stat-wise, but there's another factor to consider: Burrell is your only right-handed middle-of-the-lineup hitter. This is already the team's biggest offensive problem, and your solution would only make it worse.

The fact is that Gillick must come up with clean-up hitting right-handed power if he trades Burrell -- not impossible, but another thing to add to your shopping list, which already includes C, 3B and two SPs. Yet you think your team would outperform this one? I think it would battle Pittsburgh for the right to the top draft pick.

Tim, you're off your rocker on both ends of your premise. First, throwing money at two of the three FA pitchers is no guarantee you'll get either one, and second, Gillick doesn't like doing it anyway. With good reason. Neither pitcher impresses me as a true No. 1 starter, and you'd have to pay them like one to entice them to a bandbox like ours. I agree we should pursue them; I disagree with dumping Burrell and Abreu before we get them.

Second, you're smoking something strong if you think Dellucci and Victorino could replace Abreu and Burrell. Victorino hits like a CF -- .333 OBP (very few walks), .410 SLG. He's basically a duplicate of Aaron Rowand, only faster and better defensively. That's whom he should replace; he'd be a big offensive dropoff from Abreu. Dellucci had a standout year last year and looks good this year, but he's 32, the same age as Abreu, and an age when decline starts to set in soon. You could replace Burrell with him stat-wise, but there's another factor to consider: Burrell is your only right-handed middle-of-the-lineup hitter. This is already the team's biggest offensive problem, and your solution would only make it worse.

The fact is that Gillick must come up with clean-up hitting right-handed power if he trades Burrell -- not impossible, but another thing to add to your shopping list, which already includes C, 3B and two SPs. Yet you think your team would outperform this one? I think it would battle Pittsburgh for the right to the top draft pick.

davthom73 once again campaigning for Chris Coste as team MVP. just playing around bro!

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