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Thursday, June 01, 2006


Well, this game will be worth watching for Vin Scully alone.

Floyd was very lucky to escape the first...he got a gift call with the bases loaded. Maybe he can settle down but I doubt it.

I'm usually more of a numbers guy, but Floyd just *looks* awful out there...91 MPH fastball w/ no movement and a curveball with a big break but so sharp no one ever swings at it (and he never gets a called strike). People joked about there being little differnce between he and Brito, but Brito will be a significant upgrade over Floyd - I think Brito can be between 4.5-4.75 ERA.

The rotation should be Myers/Brito/Lidle/Floyd/Hamels.

Floyd really needs to go and that is coming from a one time supporter of his. Its amazing the number of deep counts he runs and the hard hit balls he gives up!

Im in SC and I have the extra innings package, but somehow the effing game is blacked out, wtf!

Floyd needs to be sat down. His mechanics are screwed up, at least tonight. His delivery is jerky and he doesn't seem to have anything at all.
Deep counts, a 2-out 2B to the pitcher and then a 3-run dinger. He's just not going to able to help the club pitching like this.

71 pitches in 3 innings?

Another reason the Phils are not a playoff team: The bullpen will be toast by August.

Dude, it's *because* you are in SC that the game is blacked out. The package doesn't broadcast to either of the two local markets for any given game.

Depressing... an interesting choice of words, George. I was noticing that Gavin looked depressed as he was coming off the field at the end of the 4th. The kid just looks miserable and I feel bad for him. Maybe he never really wanted to be a baseball player. Maybe he really wanted to be a fireman or something. He sure doesn't look like he wants to be where he is.

He's depressing you. He's depressing me. Maybe he's depressing the team as well.

Anyone have Floyd's updated WHIP numbers (including this game)?? I swear there are at least 2 runners on every inning he pitches... And most innings there are more...

Pack his bags... 7-0 now...

As much as it hurts, I'm glad this is happening. There is no way they can bring him back in 5 days after this.

He's not depressing the Dodgers.

Well Jon, you weren't far my calculations Floyd has now allowed...102 baserunners in 54!!!!!! innnings "pitched." Ih he pitched 200 innings this year, he would surrender 56 HRs.

Nat, I think you need to revise your beer analogy...Floyd is more like Near Beer.

Well Sanchez had a pretty impressive first inning of his career. Something positive from this dismal game.

Thanks for the update kdon, and I guess despressing is the only way you can sum up Gavin Floyd anymore. Where did it all go so wrong for him? He looked so good during his call-up in 2004 and that awesome start he had against St. Louis during the beginnig of 2005. Ever since then he has seemed so skittish on the mound. He looks scared and without much confidence. I know he is still young, but I seriously wonder if he will ever turn it around. I hope he can.

Good night west coasters, this stinker is all yours.

I supported keeping Floyd in the rotation for at least 10 or so starts to see what he could give the Phils. He has gotten progressively worse his last few starts.

I agree with George S that Floyd's mechanics look all messed up. Even worse, Floyd can't throw a fastball for a strike. Watch where Lieberthal sets up on a fastball. Floyd misses the location by 6-12 inches. Not good.

Given Lieber's injury (groin injuries to older pitchers have a way of lingering), Floyd may have to make another start or two. At this point, Floyd will definitely be sent down to T-AAA.

Floyd has got to show some mental toughness in T-AAA and work hard. Until he is able to put up some good numbers in T-AAA, he will not get recalled by the Phils later this year and he will have little trade value.

Crystal ball predictions for June & July:

-Phils brutal schedule in June (tough West Coast trip and only 9 home games) will result in a 11-16 record in June. As a result Phils will be a few games under .500
-Phils fade will result in Manuel getting fired by early July.
-Gillick determines that the 2006 Phils can't make the playoffs. As a result, Gillick make a big trade (Abreu and Burrell) for a starting pitcher and prospects. This trade will give the Phils more payroll flexibility

I don't think you need to keep him around even with the injuries...Brito is already slotted in Lieber's spot and Hamels is pitching today in his rehab start, so he can take Floyd's spot.

Floyd's problems with "mechanics" are nothing new...he simply has been a bad pitcher for almost two calendar years. It was a joke to bring him out of spring training, it was a joke to put Madson in the bullpen when Hamels was called up, and it would be a joke is he wasn't sent to Scranton when Hamels comes off the DL.

This team is really depressing me. Floyd has to go down to AAA, he's terrible.

I keep hoping that I will see Gillick make some kind of move in the pitching department, they REALLY need a major shake-up.

Maybe Elmer needs to flip his wig again, that worked for about 11 or 12 games didn't it?

Rollins set the tone early when he didn't score on that ball back to the pitcher. What the hell happened to him anyway?

Man I am so tired of these guys doing the saaaaaame thing year after year, after year, after year, after year...............

"Depressing" seems to be the sentiment of the night.
Now I'm depressed too.
I think I'll drink a few more beers and call out sick in the morning.

Sorry to let you all down, I was in Phoenix and missed the game. I'm not sorry I missed it actually, it sounds like it was painful. And Vin Scully on top of it (I'm the world's smallest fan of his). Well, almost as bad an experience as being in Phoenix. I've been fortunate to miss nearly all of Gavin Floyd's starts this year. Timing is everything.

Flatness! Thataway to start an 11-game trip. Looks pretty bleak all of a sudden, doesn't it?

Yeah, ragtop, ya gotta start wondering if this team will always be a collection of underachieving losers.
Compare the Phlailin' Phils to a team like the Braves. Prior to the Phils game, the Braves faced a late game bases-loaded, no-out situation when they began using one pitcher at a time to matchup against the D-Backs. After every out, the Braves dugout was alive with high-fives and backslaps as the pitcher made his way through the bench.
Fast-forward to the Phils game. Late innings: Did they look ticked-off or embarassed to be losing to a bunch of 1st and 2nd year no-names? Nope. In fact, you'd think Sanches just threw 7 innings of shutout ball and left with a 7-0 lead the way he and Madson were laughing and kidding around. Sure, the kid was excited. He threw well and looked more than competent in his first major league appearance but, at the same time, I thought it was inappropriate to celebrate under those circumstances.

I always believed winning "attitudes" were more hype than substance, but as the season unfolds it's becoming clear the Phils remain unfocused and do not have what it takes to win. The Braves do seem to actually have the right attitude while the Phils only think they have what it takes to win consistently.
I'm no Braves fan but am considerably impressed by their success with a team that is less talented than the Phils.
Each Atlanta player seems ready and willing to do the little things it takes to win ballgames while too many Phils seem content to just put in "another day at the office".

At this point, I don't think a move in the pitching department will be enough to turn the season around. While all the focus on the game was on Floyd's feeble attempt at major league pitching, the team continues to make mental lapses in the field and on the basepaths while making the opposing pitcher look like a Cy Young candidate.

Yeah, for the first time this season, I'm giving up hope that they could hang in long enough to make a playoff run.


Ever since I heard Chico Ruiz steal home, it's been downhill.

Well, except for 1980.


kdon- the first post in this string, I completely agree with. There is almost no way Brito will post a +7 ERA like The Headcase Known as Gavin Floyd. Floyd is bad...remember RSB, you were calling for Floyd to get 10 starts to prove himself earlier in the season. Well, he got his 10 starts and its apparent, the dude sucks!

RSB, I apologize, because I thought it was you that called for Floyd to get 10 starts, but I guess not. What is your take on Floyd though?

By the way, when the Phillies lost those 1st 2 games to the Brewers back in mid-May and I came on here saying how bad that was and didn't bode well for the rest of the season. People shot down my notion like I was an idiot. Looks like it didn't bode well at all!

I was on the Floyd bandwagon coming out of Spring Training. As the season progressed, I would keep hoping he'd start to improve, but he's only gotten worse. I am now officially off the Floyd bandwagon. Get the hook. Send him down to AAA. Give someone else a chance to shine.

RSB, I went back through the archives, and I'm pretty aware of your stance on Floyd. I was wrong thinking it was you that wanted him to get a prolonged look this season, so I admit I was wrong. Through my search of the archives I realized we feel much the same way about Floyd...basically that he's just not effective and may/probably will never be.

Jason, why is the time stamps on all of these comments West Coast time? I live in the Central Time Zone, but the Central Time Zone really lives on an Eastern Time zone schedule. We go to work an hour earlier, come home and go to bed an hour earlier. Saturday Night Live ends at midnight.

Never bothered to change it.

Is anybody on here seriously worried about the Phillies? They may still be above .500 for now, but I just don't see this team even making a push like they did last year. I am completely negative on this team. I like certain players and what they bring to the table, but overall I must say they just don't get it done. A few years ago I was happy with a winning season because of the previous futility. However, now is the time to step up, not regress, and that's exactly what I see regression. I'm not trying to offend anybody, but the fact that I even hear/read mention of the Phillies being capable of playoffs flabergasts me!

I agree with Carson. I remember going into spring training ready to write off the year assuming it would take Gillick a year to right the ship and then use the Lieberthal/Bell money to really fix things next off season. But then the hot spring training and early May got me fully on the bandwagon and forgetting that this was sort of going to be a rebuilding year. I'm still very hopeful for the future, but I agree that the future isn't this year.

We HAVE to improve the starting pitching, if we are to have a shot. As all the Phillies streaks this year have shown, the uneven offense isn't as big a deal when the pitchers are keeping runs of the board.

Yeah, its the same old crap every year, just slopped up in a different way...

HEY PAT - Maybe we could fire the manager or make a trade or two?? I don't think this team has the luxury of waiting until the trade deadline to do something. Its time the GM steps up and addresses that this team really needs a major kick in the ass!! It would be nice if we could get some help from somewhere other than Scranton. I need some fresh faces. I need some players who can at least con me into thinking that maybe they can make a run this year. I agree with VOR. I too am sickened by the fact that this team appeared like they didn't give a damn that they lost to a bunch of 1st and 2nd year players.

Major changes need to be made. I don't know how many times that has to be said...

It's June 2. The Phillies are a game over .500, 5 1/2 games out of the division lead, with 109 games to go. For a good team, that's more than manageable. Obviously, after losing 0-7 last night and slumping over the past week or two, the Phillies aren't that team right now. But they have been that team earlier this season and they were at the end of last season.

So no, I'm not exactly budding with optimism. My guess is they're missing the playoffs, just like all the numbers and baseball people said they would. But if you can call me crazy for saying they're still in contention, I can call you a drama queen for saying they aren't.

Oh, and Floyd needs to go.

Zach, I'll gladly be a "drama queen" for saying this team in out of contention. True, only 5 and a half back on the Mets, but those are 5 and a half games the Phillies will never overcome. I'm not a drama queen I'm a realist. I have nothing against you personally I just don't understand how you can see this team being something they are not. The period of time at the beginning of May when they won 13 out of 14 was just a tease!

How long will fans hold onto that one good stretch they had? This team is not that good. They are average at best. Do they have some good players? Yes. Do they have two stars on the rise (Utley and Howard)? Yes. Do they have some not so good players? Too many to contend at this point. Changes need to be made...

Zach, I'll gladly be a "drama queen" for saying this team in out of contention.

Alright then, glad that's settled. ;)

Starting pitching is a difficulty for much of the division. It wouldn't be unreasonable to see the NL east turn out like the NL west last season and send a team with a record a few above .500.

As for the trades, is there anyone particular out there that could make an immediate difference in the rotation? I don't seriously think Willis would be traded to a division rival, and Small from NY in a three way was another move mentioned. Maybe struggling until the trade deadline makes more sense to get the most for your Burrell/Abreu buck.

I don't see why Willis couldn't come here via trade. The Mets picked up the salaries of Delgado and Lo Duca from the Fish.

The biggest dissapopintment has been the offense. I always thought the pitching was going to suck but the offense is so inconsistent. They'll probably come out and score 10 tonight but they'll follow it up with 2 runs on 5 hits saturday.

RISP - .232
RISP/2 out - .174
Bases loaded - .174
Hitting .244 vs. lefties
Leadoff hitters - .249 with .310 OBP.
Catchers - .240 with 1 home run.
Burrell - 2 for 29 with 2 out/RISP. 2 for 29! The more I think about it that's actually HARD to do.

Phils starters ERA is 5.10, imagine it without Myers!


but I'm the drama queen for stating that this team is not good. Just like I've been saying and finally others are saying too, this team is just not good. The only reason fans still think they're good is because of the beginning of May, take that away and nobody would even think of saying playoff team and Phillies in the same sentence. But thanks Zach, I appreciate the drama queen comment because it must mean I'm right and you're just upset to start throwing names around.

To clarify... While we're being realists, all I'm saying (again) is that there's 109 games to go. That's real, I'm not making it up. We're making the same projection Carson - an October without the Phillies - I'm simply pointing out, as a realist, that it's extreme to try and stick a fork in the season after game number 53, with this record. It's easy to play psychic in this town, for obvious reasons, but understand that's what we're doing. They'll no longer have a shot when their record says they no longer have a shot.

But thanks Zach, I appreciate the drama queen comment because it must mean I'm right and you're just upset to start throwing names around.

Relax buddy, it's Friday. Not to mention early.

Floyd looks to me like he should be on a suicide watch. Absolutely brutal watching him pitch. I'd rather watch Steve Trachsel.

Alright Zach, I'll let bygones be bygones of this situation. I just get really fired up when Phillies fan put a blind eye to their obvious struggles and say "we're still in it" and comments of that nature. I want them to still be in it, and I almost ate my words last season, but once again, I'm always let down by this team. I truly hope they can right the ship and sail into October, but I look at the team that we have now and don't see it happening. When I was a kid, I used to predict Phillies World Series champs every year, now I'm not so naive. I'm not saying that you are naive, or one of the people saying "we're still in it", I'm just trying to express my frustration with the organization as a whole and the fact that I hate hearing all that 13 out of 14 garbage, because even the Devil Rays were above .500 for a bit during parts of seasons, and we know their woes.

oh and before I get this thrown in my face, I do think the Phillies a better team than the D-Rays, I was only referencing them.

I want them to still be in it, and I almost ate my words last season, but once again, I'm always let down by this team.

And I don't want them to still be in it, I want them to friggin win it already. But I didn't honestly think that was going to happen from before the season started, so I can't say I'm extremely disappointed at the state of things now. There's the trade deadline, we'll see what happens, hopefully we'll send down Floyd soon. If we could find a clone of Rowand somewhere, that'd be nice too.

Weitzel, I know you did a piece on the Minors in May, but can you start up a discussion about the complete lack of bat in our system. There is absolutely next to no offensive talent at all levels. The poor pitchers have ERA's in the 2's and have won loss records like 2-4...what?

You know this would all be easier if the Phillies would just consistently win. Too bad...

I know we all want the Phillies to win it all. I step back some times and wonder why I get so wrapped up in Phillies baseball and baseball in general. I love this game and everything about it. I even love to hate the Yankees and love to hate Roger Clemens for dilly-dallying around until June to finally pitch again. Baseball is the best! And the Phillies are mine (our) team, just wish we could see some playoff hope, real hope! Watching Rowand, Utley, Howard, Myers, and Flash is fun, those guys are high quality for multiple reasons. I like what Burrell, Abreu, Victorino bring to the table in their own way. I just can't seem to keep my mouth shut when they play like this!

Zach there are still over 100 games to go but I doubt Phils will finish their brutal June schedule with a record better than .500.

Let's say they are 40-39 on July 1. If Phils have to win 93 games to clinch a wildcard, the Phils have to go 53-30 (.639). Maybe the offense can catch fire when it warms up, but there is no way this team's starting pitching allows them to play .600 play over a long stretch. They only have two starters, Lidle and Myers, who give them enough quality starts.

I would rather have Gillick made a big move with Abreu/Burrell to get a starting pitcher than watch this team win 83 or 85 games. Especially, since the free agent market for starting pitching is really weak for '07.

I would

Rick, what don't you like about Vin Scully?

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