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Friday, June 16, 2006

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Pawnking's take on Myers and Hamels made me laugh out loud. Myers isn't in the same class as Carpenter, Pedro, Oswalt, or Webb. It's not even worth discussing.

(To say nothing of the fact that Hamels has only made a handful of starts in the Show. Totally unproven at this point.)

But I still think the Phillies will win the WC...

"The Phillies held pregame fielding practice yesterday for the first time since spring training, and for the first time during the season since Charlie Manuel was named manager."

Okay, call me an idiot if you want, I admit I have never been close to a MLB club, so I don't really know the answer to these questions but:

Is this line a joke or hyperbole?

Are there actually teams that don't practice during the season?

Did we sign this coach from the Bizaro league?

How do you feel now philly fans? your team will never recover form this. You saying they can battle the mets for the division crown is a joke. We punnished you for 3 games in your own house. Call your season over now because it is. We are going to walk all over the nl east.....and the whole nl.....then the world series. No one can stop us, As your team sure as hell didn't.

Cheers
Dan

Hey Dan - I am a Sox fan and the Red Sox fans often attached their entire season to Pedro alot in the late 90s while I was in Boston. I would be a little worried about attaching my hopes to a 40-something Glavine and Pedro.

Wow. I don't think I've ever been so flattered in my life. Thank you, Jayson.

By the way, I really am an accountant! Honest! LOL.

And, FWIW, Myers and Hamels are the only two starters on the Phils with a positive WPA. While that might not equate to being dominant starters, it makes me hopeful.

Pawnking is delusional if he thinks this team can win the WS. At best they will sniff the WC into early Sept. and fade. They just don't have the starting pitching.

Picture the Phils starting pitcher as an old spaghetti Western. Our hero, the Phils, are wholed up and have used just about all their own ammo. Floyd and Madson have bought the farm. Lieber is fat, wounded, and out of commission. Myers is the sidekick who thinks he should lead the gang but everyone knows he can't do it. Lidle is just an extra who is adequate but doesn't bring much to the movie. Hamels and Mathieson are holding their own but too raw and inexperienced to do much.

The only chance our hero, the Phils, have a chance to be rescued is if some unknown stranger comes into town and saves them. Otherwise this will be just another Phils season buried on Broad and Pattison.

57-39 (.594) the rest of the way and we're in. I'm on the bandwagon.

33-33 Now. And we're not gonna get a 12-1 homestand to raise us up like last June. We've got 3 game series against Boston, NY, Toronto where we'll be lucky to go 3-6. Also 3 game series against Balt., SD, Pitt, and TB (of course managing to get Kazmir). We'll be lucky to be a couple over .500 at the break.

Basically the phils need to hold on to .500 till the break and then really hit the ground running, because if they don't they'll be selling and not buying at the deadline and then the season's shot.

Meanwhile the Mets are 18! over .500. Now the mets have no shot at the WS, cause Pedro will get hurt and Glavine won't be the same.

To Pawnking: you only need 3 starters in the postseason. If the above isn't true and Pedro manages to stay healthy, and Glavine doesn't fade... with El duque. as much as I hate to admit it, the mets do have a shot.

The Mets' strength is their bullpen of Sanchez, Heilman, Feliciano, & Wagner. Probably the strongest in the NL right now. Only hope that the Mets' starter keep going only 6-innings and the Mets' bullpen is tired them out by the end of the season.

I'll agree that you don't need 5 or even 4 strong to make a run once in the playoffs (getting in may prove to be the tricky part). However, Houston's short staff was FAR superior to Myers and Hamels even at their best this year. That was a team that gave Clemens, what, two runs per game? I don't think that Myers or Hamels will contend for the Cy Young this year.

I'm all for the red Kool-Aid. I was just hoping that Pat or Charlie would throw a couple of new ingredients in it.

If you get a chance, brouse some of the Mets blogs like www.metsblog.com. Some of you are quoted.

In one post, Beerleaguer is called "The cadilliac of Phillies fan websites." Wow!

I was a little rude above....sorry. I just am so excited i can actualy bragg about my team for once! I know how it feels philly fans. We have both had s*** teams now for some time, or teams that are good but just cant make the playoffs. its our curse, but damn when you finally do win its the most un believable feeling !!!! I will be pulling for the phills to get the wild card. As the mets and the phillys have suffered more then our fair share. And how much do you guys love the braves sucking a**. Its f***** GREAT!!!!!

If you think this team will make it to the playoffs in 2006. Stop, open jaw, remove crack pipe.
Thank you.

Jayson, on that website you mention is this interesting quote

“You can't write anybody off. Each season you have some teams that struggle and the next thing you know, they come back…

“Philadelphia has too much talent and Pat Gillick is going to find ways to improve that team . You just can't count them out. If we start thinking we've got this thing whipped, we're in trouble.”

Who said this? Billy (the Rat) Wagner.

I hate to be negative, but I really believe nothing will change until Manuel is fired (and replaced with someone from outside of the organization) and a trade or two is made to give this team a new look and a renewed sense of urgency.

Weitzel, everyone, the fact that the Phillies haven't held fielding practice since spring training, and for the first time during the season since Cholly took over, is not at all unique. Major league clubs rarely take infield anymore. Why, I don't know, but it's a failing shared by all 32 managers in the league.

Anyone else find this quote on Phillies.com interesting - "I don't mind seeing guys get ticked off and mad," Manuel said. "That's a sign that they care and they're getting ready to fight. That's OK with me. I'm seeing it start to boil over."

That's OK with him? I know Manuel was brought in here because he's cool, calm and collected, but an someone explain to me how this guy can be so distant from this team and not be among the most "ticked off and mad?"

I was a little skeptical about reading the world according to pawnking all along, but when I came to the part about Myers and Hemels being an "unbeatable 1-2 punch in the playoffs", I did a double-take. Brett Myers is not unbeatable in any way, shape, or form. And Cole Hamels is 1-1 in four big league starts. I'm sorry, but that's just a truly misguided observation. I may have to seek out my grounding pearls of wisdom elsewhere. Phil Sheridan's column, which is just a tad skeptical as to the Phillies' ability to climb above six other teams and win a wild card, is far more steeped in reality. Yes, it is a long season. Yes, the Phillies will play better. No, they do not have what it takes in any facet of the game to be considered a playoff-calibre team. We've come far enough into the long season that such an evaluation can be legitimately undertaken.

I did, however, also appreciate Marcus Hayes taking the Phillies' defense to task today. He brings home a point that's been mentioned lately by some here concerning Rowand regularly missing the cutoff man. Rowand seems to think he has a fabulous arm, but it's actually terrible and someone needs to get him to face this reality. I can't remember a single strong or accurate throw he's made all year.

Sorry, 30 managers. Wrong league.

Thanks Zach, that answers my question.

I for one say that if Charlie has an ounce of Managerial accumen, he will reinstate infield everyday until the Phils start fielding ground balls and hitting cut-off men, then leave it in at least 2 days a week after that.

It seems to me that if you can't float on your talent, and this team can't, then you better beat the opposition on the fundamentals.

Currently we are not doing that.

The Phillies do not have one single starter who could be deemed reliable. Not one. At the beginning of the year most of us thought they could simply outscore their opponents and make it to the promised land. Now, after wathcing them for a few months, it's clear that they cannot even reliably or consistently do that let alone get the other guys out.

Pawnking is probably one of the biggest donkeys I have ever came across in my life. Philadelphia fans in general are supposed to be smart and knowledgeable, but this guy isn't too bright. To seriously say "Once the Phils get to the postseason, their 1-2 punch with Myers and Hamels can compete with anybody. If there's anything the Astros demonstrated last year, it's the fact that if you have 2 dominant starters, you can go deep in the playoffs." is absolutely absurd..... How many starts has Hammels made???!?!?!? And I believe he got shelled in one of them???? Those are hardly 2 dominant starters. Half of a dominant starter at best. And he even referred to Jose Lima who made 2 emergency starts and got sent right back down where he belongs once we brought some people in.

Bottom line is the Phils better start thinking Wild Card unless they go on another tear ala the month of May . As my man Paul LoDuca (a.k.a. the 'undertaker') put it, the Phils just got BURRIED. I'm not an ignorant fan to say your season is over because thats rediculous (its only June) but you better make something happen soon. Good luck chumps.

LETS GO METS

What is it with these Mets fans?

Hamels. Buried. Ridiculous. It's. Let's.

I agree with most everything pawnking says. It makes sense. The Mets are playing over there own stupid heads and are a sure bet to go into huge skid in the near future. Like the phils broadcasters said yesterday, everything is going the Mets way. A pitcher does not have to have a full major league reputation to be called a dominant starter. Hamels is the REAL DEAL. He is On the same line as Carlton, Maddux, Clemens, Johnson, and Santana if he can stay healthy. Myer's only needs to grow-up and not let careless errors shake him up. The Phils pen is the best in the Majors.

Hey AS, after you learn how to spell you can take people to task about not being too bright.

It's a long season all right but consistency in team play is key.

Until this team demonstrates that and also shows that they understand situational ball a little better they will continue to get eaten alive by the Mutts and other playoff contending teams.

I'm not quite ready to go out on the limb that PK has, but it would be a major improvement if Myers and Hamels could be consistently good.

As for the WS, don't make me laugh! NEVER with this manager!

I can't believe I just saw someone compare Cole Hammels (a rookie that's pitched 2 games) to arguably one of the best pitchers of all time. You're out of your mind.

Let's face it - we need some decent starting pitching, and fast. It's time to trade either Burrell, Abreu or Rowand for a top quality starting pitcher or pitchers. Call the Padres and offer Abreu for either Peavy straight up, or for Young and Bard. If not, how about Abreu to the Giants for Schmidt?

"Hamels is the REAL DEAL. He is On the same line as Carlton, Maddux, Clemens, Johnson, and Santana if he can stay healthy. Myer's only needs to grow-up and not let careless errors shake him up. The Phils pen is the best in the Majors."

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE??!?!?!?!?!?! Cole Hamels in the same sentence as santana clemens johnson carlton and maddux is an insult to those guys man... let's get serious and stop being an ignorant simpleton!

LETS GO METS

Man, I hate the wild card. It's just sucker bait for fans and teams alike. The fact that it is even being talked about in mid-June says something about this team.

But what really speaks volumes is calling up an AA pitcher to start. Volume 1 is what it says about the state of the starting pitching. Volume 2 is what it says about the state of the farm system.

What the Phillies don't need is a trade to try to get an "ace," even though it wouldn't take much of a pitcher to qualify this staff's ace, in an attempt to take a shot at the wild card.

What the Phillies do need is a 3rd baseman and a catcher and probably another serviceable infielder. They need to restock that farm system with some almost ready for prime time guys who could help next year. Yeah, that's right... next year, cuz this year's Phillies aren't going anywhere that last year's team didn't go, or the team before that, or before that.

Instead of being wild card suckers, the Phillies should play the other suckers -- the 15 to 20 teams that think of themselves as wild card contenders -- to swing some deals and fill those needs. I could put up with this team's fumbling and stumbling this year if I thought something better was in the offing next year.

"Are there actually teams that don't practice during the season?"

To be honest, 99% of MLB teams dont have infield preactice.

My response to that is 99 percent of managers are not interested in keeping their defense sharp, and that is astonishing. I know Ryan Howard could have benefited from some infield practice.

100%. Read the article, it's interesting.

Let's face it, the Phillies had a better team last year, and still couldn't make the WC. This "best bullpen" in the NL is going to get a lot worse as the year goes along and they get even more over-worked than they are now with the lousy SP.

Even if the SP turns things around, they still need fielders behind them who can catch and throw. If I was the GM I would look to trade away everybody except Utley, and build a new team around him. In 2 or 3 years this team could be a contender.

you phag phils phans are so ignorant it's hysterical... bret myers is a no. pitcher on any other team in the division... i can name about 15 starting 1-2 punches right now without doing an ounce of research... keep tellin' yourself that you have the best 'pen and 1-2 punch in the bigs...hahaha you guys are such jokers, as the metropolitans just proved to you phags...

why did my last post get filtered out??? can't handle the truth??

Phillies have been trying to get a starter for Abreu straight up the whole off-season. Not likely to happen before July 15, if at all.

And as far as bringing up AA pitchers, basically all it means is we don't have good starters ready for the automatic bump-up to the majors. AAA is only for guys who are basically ready but waiting for a key injury or someone to underperform in the majors. All the other AAA guys are career minor leaguers. The Red Sox got a good game from Pauley against the Yanks this year and he's only in AA.

Although the phils farm system is pretty bare, their are some good pitchers who might be major league ready right now or in 12-18 months. Haigwood, Gio, and Mathieson to name a few. The cupboard's bare on infielders and outfielders (with the possible exception of Bourne).

Hey Maybe you Phils Phans 'overachieving' aspirations of winning the wild card will die after you lose 9/12 to those 4 AL East teams you are about to play. Including a SWEEP from the D-Rays as "phenom" Cole Hamels throws 3 innings of batting practice tonight with 7 Earned and 5 walks.

SICKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

The mets fans spell so poorly because they are middle school kids. If people did not engage them they would go away.

Good post above by MG. The Phillies rotation, as now constituted, cannot get us to the playoffs. That is a stone cold fact, veen if there were 150 games left in the season.
Also, those looking to the wild card are dreaming. Houston is getting Clemens back. There is ZERO chance of the current Phillies winning more games this year than the Astros.
To have a shot Gillick must acquire a solid starting pitcher. When Wolf returns, the new guy and Myers will give them 3 decent starters, assuming Wolf comes back at top form (a big assumption). Then the utter mediocrities Leiber, Lidle, Madson, Floyd can battle for the final 2 rotation spots.

Couple of points on starters:

1. Hamels had started 4 games in the majors. There is no way you can make any projections on how he will do for the rest of the season. First, I would love for him just to stay healthy for the rest of the season. Second, I would love for him to develop his offspead stuff a bit more. Hell, Hamels has only pitched 200+ innings now in professional baseball. That is just not enough time to develop.

2. Hopefully Lieber is able to come back in the second half and show something. They are stuck with him for at least next year for alot of money. It would be nice to count on him.

3. Anyone counting on Wolf to rescue the team this year is nuts. It takes at least two years for a pitcher to really come back from Tommy John surgery. Nice story would be for Wolf to come back, pitch ok, and resign a 1-yr deal with Phils for alot of incentive potential for next year.

Incredible! Is every Met fan's IQ in single digits? Not only do they have inferiority complexes and go on other teams forums to brag, they're obnoxious and fatuous. Middle school kids have better grammatical skills than these nitwits. The Mets may win but they're fans are losers (at least the ones on this forum).

Well, as long as we're playing the fantasy game, I would love to see next years rotation be Myers, Hamels, Mathieson, Gio, Floyd.

Trade Wolf and Lieber at the deadline for some legit prospects, send Madson back to the pen to be the 7th innings guy, give Yoel Hernadez the 8th, and Flash the 9th.

Then use the money freed up by the departure of Lieberthal, Bell, Wolf and Leiber to sign a legit C and 3B, a couple more pen hands, and some guys with some pop off the bench.

And I want a pony for Christmas, but I'm guessing none of this happens.

Am I allowed to be excited for tonight's game?

You might get the pony, yt.

I love people that called the majors 'the show'.

Well, so much for Gavin Hamels...er, I mean Cole Floyd.... er, uh, what's the name of that AA kid again? Christy Mathewson, or something like that?

Can we fire Manuel yet? What will it take? A sweep by the Devil Rays? Ugh...

Well so much for Hamels being Clemens, Maddux, Carlton who whoever the bozo claimed he was. The only thing he may have gotten right is that he is a little like Randy Johnson....this year's Randy Johnson.
And against the D'Rays! If he's an integral part of your 1-2 punch, good luck!

Here we go again, getting kicked around by Tampa.

What's next, obnoxious Tampa fans coming on here?

I keep reading how these guys are mad about losing, where's the action?

Phils fans you want to know whats great ATL in 3rd place and getting killed by Boston.

This is the kind of game, or series of games, that in other organizations would get a manager canned.

Not saying that's what should happen here (and we know it won't, besides). Just an observation.

And I certainly am not glad about what happened to Hamels tonight, but some people needed this kind of dose of reality to intervene where he's concerned. Now he's got the adversity. We'll see what he does with it. Quite frankly, the way this kid goes about things kind of suggests to me that he needed a little humbling.

Take away the 12 out of 13 win stretch and this team is 12 games under .500. When is this organization realize this team is done and its needs to be dismantled. They've been together too long and can't make the playoffs their window has closed

Anyone else feel bad for Condrey and Sanches and Fultz? They are forced to pitch every night and tons of innnings nonetheless. Both Condrey and Sanchez suck doggy doo but they are being used as pitching dummies out there...hey we're down by 5 let put the scubs in there! Hey Challey send a message and if Franklin is your long man put him in there and lets see him get bombed what the frig are you savin these other bums for?

Wheels - Why must you make excuses all friggin nite...tonite was god awful...it seemed like everytime i'm watching on tv your on there making excuses and then when i get in my car to run errands your on the radio giving the same rant. Then when i get to the gym to workout i'm on the treadmill watching the game and think to myself thank god i have to have at least 1 wheels free inning, but nope you're back on tv whining and then getting all excited about a crooked inning and the first hit for some 33 yr old rookie's first hit.

(33 YEAR OLD ROOKIE'S FIRST HIT) - WTF - having him on your team is almost as pathetic as 90 loss phils teams of the past!

Relative to their performances against the Phillies, I'd have to say the Devil Rays are better than the Mets.

Nat, I'm begining to think that the best team in MLB at any given moment is which ever team is playing the Phil's.

I really don't believe that Gillick is trying to win this year. Which I'm somewhat ok with, because I don't think we would go far if we did make the playoffs. So he might as well find out who fits and who doesn't, which prospects and major leaguers, and who he can get value for at the trade deadline/come the offseason.
I hate losing as much as anyone, but if there is a sense of vision (for once) then at least here is something to look forward to. Like a consistant team perhaps!
Also, I'm all for editing out the obnoxious Mets fans posts, it really takes away from reading the other posts. Just the obnoxious ones, Mets fans can discuss all they want.
Another also, to SamDracula, if you're going to correct grammar or spelling, it's "their" not "they're". Not that I've edited this comment for grammar or spelling.

ps - I had a dream where I was quoted on Beerleaguer. If I told my girlfriend I have dreams about being quoted on a baseball blog, well, yeah...

I don't mean to offend, but I've said this before "losers say it's a long season". I'm not calling pawnking a loser, but I am calling the Phillies losers. If they were front-running or close to the Mets, they wouldn't be saying that played out "it's a long season", or "it's a marathon, not a sprint". That crap is tired and cliche. Basically, we're once again giving the Phillies excuses to suck. And enough already about "nearly making the playoffs last year", hell I nearly pitched a perfect game in little league, but it didn't count now did it?! We need to face facts...this teams SUCKS! Quit sugarcoating everything...jeez!

Wow, all this Hamels talk about being dominant...glad to see he proved all of you right last night against the A.L. worst offense...oh wait, he gave up 2 jacks to Lugo...face it, we have no shot at the playoffs!

By the way, I don't think Hamels sucks...he's a rookie, and will be a good pitcher some day, possibly staff ace. However, right now he's getting his lumps in the Bigs. We just don't have what it takes to make the playoffs, and some bandaids thrown on the gashing wound won't help come trade deadline. Out of every post on this thread I like Nat's the most, because he puts it like it is. Quit dreaming about Wild Card, and start thinking about how to really fix this situation, and the situation is we need to restock the farm system, get rid of some of the baggage on the big league roster, and think about how the Phillies are going to really contend next season. I know we're all Phillies fans and we want the team to win, but some of you are delusional...and some of us, like me, are pesimistic, but hey at least I'm not putting the blinders up!

We are still only 4 games out of the wild card. That being said, with the firing of that uncompotent idiot of a manager we have, and a move or two, we should be able to compete with that slop in front of us for a post-season berth. I am not saying we are going to make it just yet, but with the right tweaking, it is at least possible. However, the longer we wait to do something (anything), the more this team will fade.

I said it before, but nothing will change until Chuckles is gone and a trade or two is made to give this team a new look and renewed sense of urgency.

I don't like our chances against Kazmir tonight. A damn good young lefty (better than any pitcher on our staff) versus our lefty laiden line-up. Best hope is Madson tomorrow. Ugh...

Maybe if we are swept, they can put Manuel out of his misery. However, if he were to go after this game, maybe we win tomorrow. I want someone compotent running this ship when we play the likes of the Yankees, Red Sox, and Blue Jays. Manuel would be severely overmatched by any one of those managers (yes, even Tito).

Just fire Chuckles already, it's inevitable...

Instead of worrying about winning the World Series, why don't you worry about winning tomorrow, instead?

And yes, I am a Mets fan, and yes, I just want to bring you back to reality.

Yours truly.

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