Part of CSNPhilly.com


« Double-A shakedown looming | Main | Phillies primed for action »

Wednesday, May 24, 2006

Comments

Mets just traded Jorge Julio for El Duque (Orlando Hernandez) from D'backs

How bad is Sal Fasano? He makes Steve Lake look like Johnny Bench.

I pine for the days when his super-sized coiff and tree-stump legs are a distant memory.

Classic RSB! Haha!

What was the gist of the B-Pro article? I know you probably can't repeat the whole thing because it's subscription, but I imagine by the title - Bullpen Phollies - it wasn't too pretty.

Manuel's bullpen usage is bad, everyone knows it's bad...Franklin, Rhodes, Geary and Gordon are probably league average for a back end of the bullpen, but Manuel's 1-1-1 pattern, slavish adherence to the save rule and inability to recognize important game situations make them worse.

Most of the problems this team has so far - poor hitting w/ RISP, bad PH numbers outside of Dellucci, pitchers w/ high BABIP - are the kind of stats that tend to even out over the season. Poor managing decisions, OTOH, endure.

Is it me, or do the Phillies look positively ripe for the picking tonight? The difference in the confidence level between the Mets and Phillies is off the charts.

It's the fourth inning, 3-3. I'd be shocked if they won the game. Really, just shocked.

Speaking of Fasano, why is he in there after catching 14 or 15 innnings of that game last night? Seems kinda dumb to send him back out, even if he is Lieber's personal catcher. Another Manuel move we can question...

Anyone else sick of Bobby short-arming balls? I know I am sick of typing about it...

I don't know what stinks more--our pitching or Elmer's managing!

King Cole on the 15 day dl.

I guess other things endure, dammit Bobby! The Mets announceers are talking about how scared he is of walls. "Just beyond Abreu's reach" is becomming as common a comment as "past a diving Jeter."

Another memorably tentative effort from Abreu on Reyes' triple. 4-3 Mets.

Todd Pinkston strikes again!

Someone might want to remind Lieber that batting practice ended at about 6:00.

What do you guys think of Soler so far?

Like the Burrell HR. I'd be worried about another extra-inning game, but everyone in the pen should be fresh since only Madson got serious work in last night.
Good thinking Charlie! I promise, however, if Gordon doesn't come in in the ninth in a tie game, well, it's best not to think about it...let's get some runs and make the decision easy!!

Hmmm Nunez popping out to the catcher (he has to be hitting .170). Abreu short-arming balls. Manuel making bonehead decisions. Sounds like a broken record that desperately needs fixed. As much as I would like the Phils to come back against Rat Boy, I don't think it is very likely...

Can we make John Kruk manager? Gotta love his quote on Bobby Abreu. It went something like "if you ever make a play like that again, my foot would be so far up your ass that you will never play rightfield again!" Too bad no one on the Phillies has the balls to deliver that message!

Well boys the Phils were thoroughly outplayed tonight. The difference between the two teams is striking. Compare Feliciano as a setup man to Franklin or Fultz or Rhodes, for example. The Mets are a better team, plain and simple. They spent the money and got solid hitters and pitchers that are coming together. They remind me of the Braves from 2-3 years ago--always finding a way to win. Look at their hitting for example--when Cormier was facing Wright, he threw 2 low and Wright swings and misses twice. Cormier thinks third time is a charm and throws the exact same pitch, low in the dirt. Wright reaches out and snags a hit. When was the last time you saw Burrell or Abreu hit tenaciously like that? We need to build a better team around people like Victorino, Rowand, and Utley. It's time for a changing of the guard in Philadelphia.

Two last questions before I go cry myself to sleep:
1. What's it going to take before Charlie Manuel is fired? As an example of the bonehead move of the night--why bat Nunez with his dismal record? When is Coste going to get a chance?
2. What's it going to take before Rollins is moved to the bottom of the order and Victorino is put up front?

Soler was okay, but nowhere near as good as the Phillies made him look.

There's really nothing left to say about the 'pen, is there? I don't think it would have mattered who Manuel put in there, the Mets were going to find a way to get it done.

Have the Phillies ever made anyone think they were going to find a way to get it done? Since 1993, is there any team you could say that about? That's what makes a winner a winner and a loser a loser. Not OPS or OBP or Win Shares or WHIP or Runs Created.

Does a team know how to get it done? Does it believe in itself? Does it play confidently?

We all want to vilify Billy Wagner, but he's right. Take his comments last year and paste them on the Phillies' uniforms, because it's all true. Is there a will to win? No. Flat out: No.

Do we hate Wagner because he'd a loudmouth, or do we hate him because he's right? On this night, he's 100% vindicated, and not because of anything he did on the field.

RSB, I must say that you certainly hit the nail on the head.

As much as I think Wagner was an ass with his remarks about us fans, I think his remarks about the team itself were correct.

Gillick has A LOT of work to do, for sure.

I've been saying this over and over, too. These Phillies, with few exceptions, seem to have no urgency, desire, will, drive to win. It's painful.

In that game Abreu won with his dribbler a few weeks ago (seems like ages ago, now), I thought this may have changed. But clearly not.

Good teams knuckle down, show patience and coolness under pressure, and get it done.

I say the Phillies need to salvage this Mets series with a win and at least take this Brewers series for Manuel to keep his job. I'm not even certain that a sacraficial lamb will spark this team, but it may well be time to just begin cleaning house.

We know who's not the problem: Utley, Rowand. Ryan Howard is the emerging star of this team. I love the way Victorino plays. Jimmy Rollins wants to win as much as anyone...maybe a little too much at times, judging from his overanxiousness. I'm not the biggest fan of Brett Myers, but no one can question his determination to win. Cory Lidle has some bulldog in him, so does Ryan Madson. David Bell's as intense as they come. Tom Gordon wants the ball in the ninth inning.

There's the makings very much in place of a team Philly would love. And which could play a little, too.

With very few exceptions, I'd just as soon see the rest of 'em hauled away. Starting with our beloved corner outfielders.

I'm not sure if I read this right, but RSB just say "David Bell is as intense as they come"?...you've got to be kidding me! Sure he's playing adequately this season, but nothing spectacular and he surely hasn't over the previous 3 seasons either.

A lot of negativity on this board right now, and rightfuly so. I had this in my from the start. I saw through the 13 out of 14 streak, and actually think it was bad for the team, because it only prolonged Manuel's tenure and gave grand illusions that this team could actually win consistently. The problems have always been there in every game, even the wins. Bullpen is below average, and is used ineffectively by Manuel. The bench is extremely weak, especially with Victorino starting. Gillick didn't fix a damn thing, he only tried to stick the tampon in the sinking boat! 2 year contract to Nunez is ridiculous. The man has only ever had 1 season with an OPS about .700, and that was last year, before that he pretty much sucked, and if you really even look at his "career year" last year with that stacked Cards lineup, he still sucked! I'm not trying to piss people off, but I think many of you were fooled. I wish I were wrong in this case, I really do, but unfortunately I've been right about this crappy team all along.

RSB wrote: With very few exceptions, I'd just as soon see the rest of 'em hauled away. Starting with our beloved corner outfielders.

But haven't they basically become surrogate mascots for the team, which is why they seem untouchable despite mixed performance? I've often scratched my head wondering why it is that Burrell's still around and I can't help but think that he's just this Lindros-ian reminder of what might have been. In reality he's just the reification of a stud, a power hitter who never materialized in quite the way anyone imagined. Yet the lay public still considers him as such, so he gets by on reputation alone. The stadium sympathy vote always goes out when he comes to bat.

Ok, I need to digress from my previous post. Although I do believe the points I made were valid, I don't want to start pointing fingers at other Phillies fans. So I apologize for the "being fooled" comment. However, the points about the bullpen, manager, Nunez, and Gillick remain true. I get ahead of myself with my thought process sometimes and just go on a rant.

the phils just lost a game and maybe the only bright spot for the entire night was our cleanup hitter, who got a baseloaded single and hit a late inning homerun to tie the game. he's up to .287-12-34, has hits with risp in back-to-back games, yet 2 out of the last 3 people who posted want to bash him or get rid of him entirely. i don't want to start another "burrell argument," but regardless of your personal bias, sometimes you have to give a player credit.

once rowand gets back this bench improves dramatically. the bullpen, on the other hand...

and the "david bell is as intense as they come" line is freakin' classic.

Kruk's comments were laughable yesterday. This is a guy who showed up 40 pounds overweight every year. I wonder if anyone ever said to him "John, if you don't drop a ton, I'll put a foot up your ass..." The guy was such a defensive liability in the outfield that he had to be moved to first base.

Its funny, because whenever I talk to the Bobby bashers, I use Kruk as the measuring stick. Bobby is very similar to Kruk in a lot of ways, yet Philly fans loved him because he was a fat, lazy white guy with a beard. How can it be said that he wanted to win anymore than Bobby when he wouldn't even take the time to exercise in the off season.

The Phillies Phans and their "perception" of how much someone wants to win always makes me laugh.

To belabor the point a little:

In the inning on Tuesday night where Abreu misplayed the ball in right field (and that's what it was misplayed, not lack of effort, not dogging it), Pat Burrell ran a circle route on a ball in left that was a much easier play. No one commented on this board about the play that Burrell blew.

Ryan Howard was abysmal at first base in that game. No comments or he's the future, he'll get better. Ryan also struck out in an amazingly bad at bat in the 3rd with the bases loaded. Few comments. The truth is if anything that was Ryan's loss on Tuesday but Marzano in post game pins the losses on Abreu saying "He cost them two games" using Victorino catching two "cans of corn" as an example of how to get a good jump on the ball.

It's a joke at this point, but I guess that's what Philly fans do, pick a whipping boy and beat him.

I just don't understand the hate for Burrell. All he's done this year is put up .287, 12 HR, 34 RBI, .974 OPS.

Pat Burrell is the least of our problems.

Kruk was loved because he was clutch and not afraid to say what was on his mind. He drank beer and talked trash, not to mention hit the ball pretty damn good for a fat white guy. Even though he was fat, he left it on the field. Can you say that about Abreu? How many fat men steal 10 bases a year or consistantly hit .300? He did what he had to which helped his team win. He wasn't afraid to swing the bat in tight situations. Can you say that about Abreu? He was in the right place at the right time on the Phillies teams of the early 90s. Can you say that about Abreu and his team now? I am not here to say that Kruk is a better player, because clearly Abreu has 5 tool talent, but feel free to let me know when Abreu develops a passion for the game or when he does whatever it takes to help his team win. Let me know when he shows some emotion with his teammates. Let me know when he makes a diving catch to help his team win. Let me know when he is done being selfish and I will welcome Abreu with open arms. Til then...

Kruk was loved because he was clutch and not afraid to say what was on his mind. He drank beer and talked trash, not to mention hit the ball pretty damn good for a fat white guy. Even though he was fat, he left it on the field. Can you say that about Abreu? How many fat men steal 10 bases a year or consistantly hit .300? He did what he had to which helped his team win. He wasn't afraid to swing the bat in tight situations. Can you say that about Abreu? He was in the right place at the right time on the Phillies teams of the early 90s. Can you say that about Abreu and his team now? I am not here to say that Kruk is a better player, because clearly Abreu has 5 tool talent, but feel free to let me know when Abreu develops a passion for the game or when he does whatever it takes to help his team win. Let me know when he shows some emotion with his teammates. Let me know when he makes a diving catch to help his team win. Let me know when he is done being selfish and I will welcome Abreu with open arms. Til then...

What do Carlos Lee, Matt Holiday, Barry Bonds, Alphonso Soriano, and Adam Dunn all have in common?

They all have a lower OPS then Burrell.

And Burrell plays just as good if not better defense then all of those guys except maybe Holliday.

John, I'm by no means an Abreu fan, but Abreu DWARFS anything Kruk has ever done in his career. Kruk never hit more then 21 HR's, never had more then 92 RBI's and never had more then 18 stolen bases. Even Kruks great career OBP of .397 is lower then Abreu's .411.

Is Kruks off the field leadership and locker room presence worth more then Abreu's clear edge in stats? I have no idea and I'd love to know the answer to that. Unfortunetly there is no way to measure it.


Again I'm not defending Manuel-Burrell-Abreu becasue I like them, they all have their weaknesses. Personally, I don't care for Abreu at all but you can't argue what he brings to the team offensively. It's just that I think the "He sucks, he has no heart, trade him!" argument isn't fair.

Burrell without RISP: 1.158 OPS
Burrell with RISP: .714 OPS

I'm just saying...

Burrell and Abreu each bring something good to this team. Yes, Burrell is so very, very slow in the OF and on the basepaths, but I like his offensive production. Abreu doesn't seem to want to make the big hit or catch anything that isn't hit right at him, but I once again like his offensive production. What's the problem then? To me it seems the team is never playing together. Utley, Howard, Rollins, Burrell, Abreu, and Rowand all get their share of hits, but don't seem to do it together. All the hits don't translate to runs because they're spaced out over innings. This isn't to say the offensive is completely to blame, we all pretty much feel the bullpen sucks and starting pitching isn't anything to be happy about.

you want to throw OPS out there...how about Nunez: .374...bench players around the league have better batting averages than that!

Let's try a bigger sample size, shall we...

2005
Burrell w/ RISP
.313/.429/.598

Yes, that's right, our favorite whipping boy posted the 15th best OPS (1.026) in in the Major Leagues last year!!! Now I realize that for some stats don't matter, but those numbers on the outfiled scoreboard and in your morning standings have to come from somewhere, and nothing correlates to runs scored better than OPS.

I shold have said "15th best OPS w/ RISP"

"you want to throw OPS out there...how about Nunez: .374...bench players around the league have better batting averages than that!"

I never understood the Nunez signing. He was never any good. His AB last night was beyond pathetic. First pitch foul out to the catcher, what a waste of an AB.

I think the Phillies had to sign somebody to play 3rd because of Bell's back. Nunez is bad, but his role should only be as utility infielder or spot starter, not first PH off the bench.
He was good at the end of last year for the Cardinals, but that was clearly a fluke. I'm not sure what other options the Phillies have, however, for backups at SS and 2B.

you should have watched the basketball game instead. suns/mavs!!

I know Abreu is better than Kruk, but this year and really ever since the All-Star game last year, he hasn't been himself. His stats are by any means not terrible (they aren't Abreu-like), but its the little things that are really starting to annoy me. Could he once sell out and not short arm a ball? Do I want him to get hurt? No. Do I want him to catch the ball? Yes. It was because of Rowand's injury that we saw what we had in Victorino, who is a nice player who probably could start on a daily basis and perhaps be the leadoff hitter this team is lacking since J-Roll is struggling and Abreu "isn't comfortable there". Could Bobby just for once do what is best for the team? Could Bobby show a little more emotion towards his teammates? I have seen Aaron Rowand support his team more in 2 months than I ever have from Abreu in 8 years.

Maybe I should direct more of my frustration with this team towards Manuel (if that is possible haha). Maybe Manuel should gets some balls and insist that Abreu try the leadoff spot for a little. Maybe Manuel could bench Abreu for one game if he short arms another ball. I am tired of seeing this team come up short and unfortunality Abreu and Manuel are the latest whipping boys. Just for once I would like to see the team do whatever it takes to make it to the playoffs, whether thats having Abreu in the leadoff spot, or cutting Nunez, or replacing Manuel.

Good managers don't have such hot and cold streaks. Good managers know how to use thier pitching staff and get the most from their bench players. Could you tell me how many starts our bench players have this year to keep them fresh? I bet its a very small number. This team needs some kind of change. If the players can't handle it, ship them out. If the manager can't handle it, ship him out. The story continues to repeat itself. Manuel makes bonehad moves. Abreu short arms balls. Franklin is used too much. Nunez sucks and should not be on the team. What's next...

Jon I totally agree with you on Abreu. I posted a couple weeks ago his numbers from the all star break until now, they aren't good for what you expect from a 3 hitter. Something like .270 - 20HR - 90 RBI's over 500 AB's. His OBP is the one constant, that has stayed consistently over .400, all the more reason to move him to leadoff.

And does anyone know what is so funny when Abreu comes up to the plate? He's always laughing and joking with the catcher and 1B. What is so funny about misplaying a line drive over your head for the 4th time this year and your team losing 6 of the last 7 games? It's almost as if he thinks he's playing in the Venezuelan winter league and that he's just out there to have a good time. That is my main "beef" with Abreu. I don't think he realizes it but that is why he's so hated in this town.

Tony you are dead on with Abreu seeming to take everything as a joke when he screws up. He will never win fans over until they see him play with the passion that they would play with if they were fortunate enough to be in his position.

The comments to this entry are closed.

EST. 2005

Top Stories

HardballTalk

Rotoworld News

Follow on Twitter

Follow on Facebook

Contact Weitzel

CSG