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Friday, May 19, 2006


too bad the bullpen is where they really need a decent arm.

I hope Wolf can help, because the pitching staff needs it.

Crazy thought: demoting Madson. People's thoughts?

Hasn't Madson now blown two leads for Hamels? And Hamels bumped Madson from his starting position.

Surely just an coincidence, but an interesting one no less. I'm surprised I haven't seen it mentioned somewhere.

Madson looks lost. I hate saying that, but he just doesn't seem to stand a chance out there on the mound right now...numbers are horrible! I'm not saying banish him to Scranton for the season, but do we really think he's going to "figure it out" pitching for the big league team right now?

don't think madson has minor league options left at this point.

good point gr, I didn't think about that.

The Phillies' younger arms appear to be having difficulty pitching from the stretch.
Locating pitches didn't seem to be a strength of Madson, Floyd, or Hamels, but from the stretch they really struggle. Should Myers, Lieber or Lidle be providing some leadership and guidance to these guys?
Or is this a pitching coach thing?

this is madson's 4th year on the 40 man roster, meaning he is out of options. last year they could have sent him up and down as much as they wanted, but this year he would have to clear waivers (no shot at that). moreover, this is floyd's last option year, so no free trip to scranton (allentown?) for him next year.

Madson has at least one minor league option left.

S&B, I am not an expert on baseball transaction rules, but I don't think that being in the 4th year on the 40 man roster means you are out of options. If this was the case, Geoff Geary would not have been able to be optioned. This is his 4th season as he pitched with the Phils in 2003 -- same as Madson. My understanding is an option is used when the team sends a player to the minors and it covers the entire year. The Phils only sent Madson to the minors one year -- 2004. Many players never use their options. But players with 5 years or more MLB experience can refuse an option. Madson cannot. If someone who knows this better, I welcome the education and correction.

you are absoulutely right. a player has 3 option years. i was under the assumption that these years would expire based on service time regardless of use based on this espn article (search: transactions primer) where they said:
When you hear that a player is "out of options," that means he's been on the 40-man roster during three different seasons, beginning with his fourth as a pro, and to be sent down again he'll have to clear waivers.
but the geary example proves this wrong (he had 4 years as a pro, then 3 years on the phils 40 man and was still sent down).

therefore, they used options on madson in 03 and 04 i believe, leaving him one more, as you said

sorry for the confusion.

So I wonder why Geary does have options left this year. Anybody have a clue?

I think I've got it.

He started 2003 with a minor league contract. The Phillies purchased his contract late in 2003, and he remained on the 25-man roster for the rest of that season. Therefore, although he pitched in the minors and majors in 2003, he was never optioned.

Now, to make it even more confusing, I see that he was indeed optioned to Clearwater on 8/31/03, but was recalled the very next day, without having made an appearance for the Threshers. I assume that that didn't actually count as an option.

Casey, Nice detective work on Geary's transactions. Your explanation makes sense.

And I would not be opposed to sending Madson to the minors if he continues to struggle.

Sending Madson to the minors seems harsh, but is probably not a bad idea at this point. If the Phils were truly merciful, though, they'd trade him to an organization which appreciates him and can make a commitment to him as a starting pitcher.

As much as I'd liked to consider Madson as a starter some day, with his limited pitch selection I just don't see it happening. His change-up is his good pitch, other than that, not much. Meaning, career bullpener in my opinion.

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