Clean slate, but Lieber must pull his weight

Readers have pointed fingers at everyone from Sal Fasano to Gavin Floyd during the Phillies poor start. Very few have been pointed at today’s starting pitcher.

The Phillies have given Jon Lieber all the support he could ask for, a personal catcher, a three-year contract and the honor of starting opening day for two straight seasons. In return, they’ve asked very little in return. All they've asked is that he keep his weight in check.

Coming into today, Lieber drags an 0-4 record, 7.99 ERA and the slight hint of a spare tire into Citizen’s Bank Park. The team, and ticket office, has not recovered from his opening-day TKO.

Lieber, quite frankly, has been a disappointment, and now you begin to wonder if age has crept in. He's on the wrong side of 35 and has injury history. Whether it’s age or something else, he hasn’t been the consistent, stingy pitcher experts thought he would be for the Phils. Close, but not quite.

Hopefully, his slow start gets washed away this afternoon, and I'm optimistic it will. His ERA-FIP differential is an absurd -4.87, indicating he's been the victim of some poor luck and poor fielding. His big problem, however, is he does poorly trying to hold men in scoring position.

The team desperately needs to milk seven innings from Lieber before they head off on their 5-game road trip.

He’ll face Aaron Cook (1-2, 3.57 ERA), who flat dominated the Phils on April 11, only to be one-upped by Brett Myers in a 1-0 shutout. Cook is a groundball pitcher who baited Phils hitters into impatient at bats last time out.

Hamels spectacular in Triple-A debut
In progress: 7 IP, 14 K, 3 H, 0 BB, 0 ER.

Comments

[SamDracula]

Don't panic with Lieber. I think he'll be fine. They need, at least, 7 innings out of him today. A win today and 5 road games in Pittsburgh and Florida could mean they get to .500 when they get home.

[ae]

Hamels - wow!

[J. Weitzel]

Final line for Hamels:

Player IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA
Hamels (W, 1-0) 7.0 3 0 0 0 14 0 0.00

[oisin]

Still in work at the moment, and that line just bounced my jaw off the keyboard. Wow.

[That Dude]

Holy Ish on Cole Hamels. I am literally speechless.

[That Dude]

I am wondering, should I pick him up in my fantasy team and stash him for another month?

[Jon]

Hopefully Hamels will be here soon! That is damn impressive at any level!

[Adam]

Sam--I don't think it's about panic, it's about blame. Though I don't think either one is very productive.

So far very nice outing for Lieber, but knowing him he could explode at any moment. If he keeps it up, I think he could give us 8 innings, which would be a godsend. Hopefully we can score some more runs so Manuel feels comfy putting Cormier or someone in (though I guess he might simply have to, or Clay Condrey)

and to reiterate: holy crap. I miss having a pitcher who could blow them away like the Schillmeister. If Hamels keeps putting up numbers like that while the starters here languish, look for him to definitely be up by early June, with a savior complex to boot.

[Adam]

Looks like this is the inning where Lieber blows it.

[Tony]

If you had to win one game tomorrow night to make it to the playoffs and you had to start either Gavin Floyd, Ryan Madson, or Cole Hamels who would you take?

[Tony]

By the way David Bell has struck out once this year, is hitting .277, and is playing a damn good 3B.

[RickSchuBlues]

Could I take Eude Brito instead?

[That Dude]

Further note, after the SWB game, Hamels walked on water, cutred the blind and fed the entire stadium of people lol.

[MG]

Lieber is listed at 6-2 and 230 in the Phils 2006 media guide. If he is 230, then I have a pot of gold near a rainbox. Try more like 250-260.

He absolutely deserves criticism since he is the Phils' supposed No. 1 starter and the Phils are paying him good money. While Lieber hasn't walked alot of batters this year (only 2 BB coming into today), his WHIP is 1.46. Seems like alot of ball hit against him are smashed line-drives.

People seem to be so fixated on complaining about Bell or Lieberthal but Lieber has easy been the biggest goat on the Phils so far this year. If he continues to stink, Phils should come up nickname that mocks his weight.

[MG]

To Phils management, please don't rush up Hamels. Give him at least 3-4 months to develop at T-AAA.

[That Dude]

3 or 4 months? dude cmon...say he puts 305 more starts together like this? You would hold him back?

Game Synopsis for Hamels

[Jon]

Can we please pitch Franklin in another game?? This is why I hate Manuel...

[kdon]

I don't think the Phillies should wait for Hamels to make 305 more starts before calling him up.

[Jeremy]

Are you implying that it's Manuel's fault that Franklin gave up that home run? I'm not sure if you're familiar with Ryan Franklin's history.

Over his career, he's surrendered 1.4 HR/G on average. This year, he's got a K/HR ratio of 1. He's absolutely terrible. He pitched 12 lucky innings this year and that's it. He's an atrocious pitcher and I have the feeling he'll be reminding us of that again and again throughout this year.

[Jon]

Imagine that, Franklin giving up a 2-run homer after being over-used. Yes, I blame Manuel even though I know Franklin's history. I knew it wasn't going to work. I mean how many straight games or run of games has he been in?? Why wasn't Condrey in there?? He was warming up! Cormier could have also started the inning. All he did last night was warm up... I said it a million times, and I will probably say it a million more times, but I cannot wait until Manuel is fired or let go. It's the stupid little bonehead things that he cannot seem to master and they definitely are adding up more and more. I really believe that the Phillies won't go anywhere they want to go with him at the helm. Just my opinion...

[Jon]

This past week Franklin has been used on April 21st, April 23rd, April 24th, April 26th, and now today April 27th!! That is absolutely insane for any reliever! Manuel is a fool to continue to turn the ball over to Franklin! They run him out there like he was Tom Gordon in his prime! I don't even want to think what he will be like when it warms up and the ball really gets hit of the yard. I mean really, who in their right mind would use Franklin out of the pen 5 times in one week?!?!

[RickSchuBlues]

It's true, any time you put Franklin in the game, you are playing with serious fire. He is just not the kind of guy you want out there in a late, close game.

[RickSchuBlues]

Well, way to rise to the occasion yet again. Last game of a homestand - a homestand against below-average teams - to determine if they can even manage a winning record. The game isn't over as I write this (end of the 8th), but it might as well be. No one can possibly believe they will come back. They just don't. What a miserable franchise this is.

[Tim]

there is no reason hamels/myers can't be willis/beckett.

[RickSchuBlues]

By the way, if I'm not mistaken, the Phillies' record when Fasano starts (after this game) will be 1-8.

[kdon]

You saving Rowand for the 10th Charlie?

[Theragtopguy]

Elmer must go!!!!

Bring in Lou Pinella!!

[George S]

I do not know what kind of defense anyone can offer for CM's use of his bullpen. Last night the Phillies have a 3-run lead. Condrey comes in and retires the side 1-2-3 with just 9 pitches. He is not scheduled to bat in the home half of the inning.
As manager, you know (I hope) that you have a day game tomorrow, that tomorrow's starter is 0-4 with an ERA in the 7's, and that you are going to need your pen in that game.

Nevertheless, you use 4 relievers to protect your 3-run lead, even though 2 of them were very effective and did not need to be replaced. You lift Condrey and bring in Franklin, needlessly, without thinking, for the 4-5th time this week, and then call on Franklin as your first option out of the pen in the following day game!

If there is a method to this madness I cannot discern it.

[RickSchuBlues]

Anyone who still feels this team can win, please evaluate the state of the pitching staff. If a starter goes seven innings, it's a crowning achievement. I would like to know the average number of relief pitchers used per game this year. It must be at least close to three.

I've been duped into giving Pat Gillick the benefit of the doubt based on his track record, his self-assurance, and his unorthodox moves. But looking at this team which is confirming all out worst january nightmares, I have to seriously question his judgement. This equation is OFF. Year after year the brass sits around and says, well now, look at all those pretty stats, we have a heckuva team here! Missed the playoffs by a three games, six games, one game! Hell, we'll get 'em next year. Even if not, we still got that Phanatic (make sure Comcast gives 'im plenty of TV time) and that pretty ballpark.

WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. START OVER.

[Adam]

I wouldn't go so far as "start over". I'd at least keep Howard, Utley, and Rollins. I think it might be best to blow things up a bit and try rebuilding the team in time to take advantage of those three while they're still in their primes, along with Hamels/Gio Gonzalez/etc.

[RickSchuBlues]

Well, neither would I, really. But it is long past time to do some gutting. I mean, jeez, c'mon already: it isn't working!

The Rockies are a team that's perpetually 'starting over', but now it looks like they're onto something. They look hungry, they play the game right and they play with a confidence their high-payroll rivals did not exhibit in the series, on the homestand, in this season, in the last decade. I would rather watch a team like that, Dave Montgomery. Okay? I think anyone would. This start-and-stop, endlessly maddening assembly of impressive statistics is not only not good enough, it is as a unit loathed by the fans. So it might hurt a little to eat all those unsold Burrell and Abreu jerseys in the concession stands. But you gotta do it. Hey, I'm enjoying watching Bobby this year. He's a terrific player. But you GOTTA DO IT. Check the attendance figures if you don't believe me, Dave. Oh, and in case you haven't noticed, your lackey chump manager isn't the answer, either.

I hate to sound reactionary. It makes me sound like a WIP-listening numbnut. But I feel I represent a true fan. I started watching this team in 1984, right after its good years, and I have stuck with this team having lived in Boston and now Tucson. I am no casual fan. I still watch every game I possibly can, and always I have all these years. It doesn't make me an expert, but it does make me someone who's seen enough to know that the ongoing state of this team is reprehensible and inexcusable. All of us deserve better.

[Jon]

Amen Rick, Amen!! Can you forward that to Dave Montgomery?? Ha!!

[Carson Book]

I love our Phillies, but to think this team is a playoff caliber team is delusional! Lieber pitched better, but he's just not that great. Myers is our only legit starting pitcher. Floyd is a headcase. Madson is unproven. Lieber and Lidle are very hittable! I want to think this team can turn it around, but what gives us any indication that "turn around" is coming...they can't even scrap out a winning April with an extremely easy schedule!

[Lake Fred]

Let's play a prediction game: What will happen first? (A.) Hamels starts for the Phillies, (B.)Foghorn is fired, (C.)Phils drop to ten games under .500, or (D.)Phils are eliminated from playoff race? My predicted order C,D,B,then A.

[kdon]

I been phrustrated by this team as much as anyone, but I don't think trading top players like Abreu and Burell is the way to go (I assume this is what is meant by Start Over, since the bad players are untradable and I don;t think anyone wants to trade Myers, Howard, Utley, etc.)
Abreu and Burell are NOT the problem.

The team's major problems (and possible solutions) so far as I see them:

1)Lieber and Madson have not pitched up to their historicaly demonstrated abilities. While it's possible Lieber will fall off a cliff this year, I don't think so. In 5 starts, he has pitched 3 good games, 1 terrible game (opening day) and one poor game (in COlorado). Madson has pitched 2 good games, 1 terrible game and 1 below-average game. WHile both players raw numbers look awful, this is more a result of one awful game each than outright phutility. I think both can be expected to pitch better based on their past performances.

2)Floyd seems in over his head. I don't think FLoyd can be a major league pitcher. He needs to be replaced. Franklin is still a terrible pitcher and wouldn't be an improvement. Wolf is months away. I would give Floyd another few starts, but replace him with Hamels (or Brito if you want to protect Hamels) if he continues to struggle.

3) Manuel is a poor strategist. While his calming effect may have helped the team down the stretch last year, he gives away a handful of games a year either through poor in-game decisions or bulllpenn overuse (see: Gordon, Cormier, Madson, Rhodes, etc.). He needs to go.

4) Bullpen. The bullpen is average, and probably would be better if Manuel had less rigid patterns. The talent is not there to make it a strength, but when you look around the majors everyone has this problem.

5) Hitting w/RISP. This has improved drastically. The Phillies still have a ridiculously low BABIP (which is most likely due to luck) and will score more runs. By the end of the year, they will have one of the best offenses in the game.

I think even average pitching by the PHils combined with what should be a great offense is enough to compete for a playoff spot, provided Manuel goes.

[kuff6]

For people getting on Gillick for not doing enough this off-season, I think the problem is that there simply was not enough payroll flexibility to allow him to fix everything in a single off-season. Looking ahead, he saw that Lieberthal, Bell, and Wolf are done at the end of this year, which will remove $21 million from the payroll. Rather than lock us down with some long-term mediocrities, which is all he could have done with the payroll ownnership has allowed him to work with this year, he decided to bite the bullet for a year, and we'll be able to bring in much better players this coming off-season. Or that's what I'm telling myself, anyway, in an effort to keep my tenuous grip on sanity.

[Billy Mac]

There is reason to be concerned with this team and for me it starts with Lieber. He was supposed to be your staff ace and is winless. To the posting that he has pitched well in 3 starts, I don't think giving up 9 hits or 4 runs in 7 innings is a good outing. In his five starts, he has had 2 terrible outings , 1 good outing, and 2 were average at best. The question is where are the wins going to come from this staff with the exception of Myers.

[RickSchuBlues]

Jon Lieber is an "ace" by pure default. No one in their right mind could think of him as a no. 1 pitcher, even before this season started.

While Abreu and Burrell aren't the problem, they are the most obvious expendable pieces that could net some worthwhile pitching and/or prospects. Gillick tried to get something for them this off-season, without results. Try, try again, Pat. I believe what needs to be done is to be rid of the players who have been a constant of this roster through so many failed seasons; purging the Phillies of those two, to begin with, would come off as a willingness to accept this failure of an ongoing, delusional postseason vision on the part of management.

I don't really buy the argument that Gillick knew his hands were so tied, forcing him to be resigned to a non-winning season. I point to the Dellucci trade as evidence that he felt the team was close enough that such an essential spare part for the bench (so it was perceived) was worth the exchange of one of the few pitching alternatives in the system. That was a trade for NOW.

I'll be happily resigned to a non-winning season if only the stagnation of this franchise is fully addressed. It is not without reason that people want and need to see major changes. Although admittedly without a fundamental change in organizational philosophy, whatever personnel changes that are made are likely to be in vain.