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Monday, January 23, 2006


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Wow, you are a lot more positive about this than I am.

If CLE can get that sort of schwag from BOS for the wildly overrated Coco Crisp, why aren't we talking directly with BOS about dealing Michaels to them? He showed last year that he can play CF without killing you. Heck, I'd take either Mota or Marte for Michaels in a heartbeat, let alone both of them.

(a) that's exactly why we can't get marte for michaels, IMO, b/c Crisp is kinda overrated (maybe not wildly, but definitely some)... so boston will give up more for him than for michasel.. plus, I think Crisp is a better leadoff guy than michaels, in terms of speed and so on.

(b) I'm with Tom G... I'm not all that positive about this. Rhodes had a good year last year, but the years before that, he was showing his age... I'm a little skeptical (given our history) of bringing in old old relievers who are coming off one good year. I'm thinking this'll be a case where he'll revert back to 4.36 ERA status. I would have been much much much happier with Betancourt. I'm not sure why we're going with this other than Cleveland is in a stronger bargaining position than we are? But I don't konw why that's true.

Even though the weather sucks, I'm positive this morning because the Phillies are working toward making a deal for a setup man. Rhodes isn't perfect, but I'm fine taking on $2.2 million of his contract for one season. I'll take that over a long-term signing for a player like Looper. Of course, I'd like to see this deal finalized. I wonder if Cleveland will send something else our way since Betancourt was the better option, and since there's a $2.2 million difference in Michaels and Rhodes' salaries.

I'll grant you that Rhodes is better than what COULD have happened [Looper], but that still doesn't make this a good deal. I'm not sure how this makes the team better...Is he any better than what was already in-house?

Where's the love, G? I don't see any of the in-house candidates capable of putting up a 2.08 ERA in the AL. There's still room for some of the in-house guys produce, just one less spot for Eude and Ricardo. No loss.

this deal could be better, if its a straight up potential starting OF for a lefty reliever who threw only 43 innings last year (and only 38 the year for that). we're really not getting very much in return. add a prospect, then its not so bad. i don't think aquiring rhodes assures madson of starting in any way.

Last year yes, but look at the other 14. His ERA and ERA+ look like a roller coaster.

I agree the deal could be better. According to the stories in the Cleveland papers, it may not be Rhodes after all, but instead, Mota or Riske. What are your thoughts on those two. My sense is they would be better.

This is a bad deal all around. I know u never really cared for Michaels, but I feel pretty confident that Cleve will get more out of J-Mike than we will get our of whatever Arthur Lee has left in the tank.

Sadly, we probably had to make this deal.

isn't Boston's front office sabermetrically inclined (including using Bill James himself as a consultant)? So shouldn't they have some love for J-Mike's OBP-ness?

Kuff: Yeah. I thought Boston would be the logical place to shop Captain OBP as well, but Coco is a better fit for Beantown. Cocobean.

Dude: I'll be happy to see J-Mike go if only because I’m tired of reading about his legendary, colossal, Herculean OBP.

The thing I don't get is why Boston is trading Shoppach and Marte, and why the Phillies weren't able to make a move on either, given the team's needs.

and re: Rhodes - his ERA may have been low last year, but apparently he allowed too many inherited runners to score. So that ERA may be incredibly misleading.

Good stuff, Ed, and good point on Arthur Lee's ERA. Where is Shoppach going? I hadn't heard that.

I dont think we talk of Jmike's OBP has herculean, however I think we bring it up since people have a tendancy to underate him.

I had just heard a rumor that shoppach was included in the deal to Cleveland, but it may be unsubstantiated... there seem to be a lot of names flying around. But nevertheless, the fact that Boston has even discussed Shoppach (evidenced by the rumors?) and that Philly isn't linked to any of them bewilders me.

Cleveland is making the right deals in any case... Marte to cover for Boone, getting rid of Rhodes and possibly getting Mota, leaving them with a good young bullpen, even signing Byrd (shudder), replacing overrated Crisp with underrated Michaels... not bad.

I know we really can't judge Gillick till next offseason when he has more flexibility, but still.

riske or betancourt would be much better pickups, just based on stats/age. betancourt maybe the best of the three. less experience than riske, but cheaper and riske's K numbers took a dive last year. my guess is, in rhodes, gillick sees an guy who is (a) familiar and (b) a lefty, and those factors probably made the decision. in gillick's eyes, he may already have 1-3 betancourts in lopez, booker, and/or santana.

It is a huge mistake for the Phillies to deal Micheals to Cleveland for an at-best standard reliever. Gillick and the club have made it fairly evident that this year is not going the one. They have not made significant additions to the starting rotation and failed to resign Wagner, both issues which were promised to be addressed. If Micheals is dealt the Phillies need to focus on the future and acquire a nice prospect, either at third base or catcher. I have heard rumor that the Phillies may get Shoppach in the three way deal which would make the deal much sweeter. What confuses me is why the Phillies have not approached Boston themselves. If the Bo Sox are actually giving up Marte for Crisp then why would they not consider talking for Micheals?

kev- my guess is, the phils did approach boston and they felt michaels was not the CF/lead-off guy they wanted. i can't imagine pat gillick and workaholic style didn't try this angle. crisp may be somewhat similar to michaels in many stats but he's younger and more dynamic a commodity.

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