Manny would sell Phillies short on character

According to the NY Post, talks between the Phillies and Red Sox are heating up.

Beerleaguer take: A straight-up deal involving Bobby Abreu and Manny Ramirez does not get the Phillies any closer to the prize.

Pat Gillick should be in the market for a frontline starter, not offense, so if the team is serious about Manny, it must be with the intention of trading him for pitching.

In addition, how many times have we read that officials from around the league consider the Phillies the least self-motivated bunch in baseball? How does Manny help the Phillies in that regard? Who does Manny play for?

Picking one over the other, ballplayer for ballplayer, I'd rather have Manny than Abreu, but the financial and spiritual cost are just too high.

On paper, the Phils have had a playoff-caliber offense for three years. Lack of motivation cannot be unrelated to their failures. The bats are good enough, but pitching, and drive, needs an overhaul. While Manny will be long on the longball, he will sell the Phils short on self-motivation.

The Phillies have improved three departments with the addition of Aaron Rowand, right-handed pop, defense and heart. They've got dough in their pockets by trading Jim Thome and letting Billy Wagner choke on his $43 million. Do not take a step back by adding, and keeping, Manny.

Update: This morning, Jayson Stark of ESPN wrote that this deal is "highly unlikely."

The primary reason is that the Phillies have been telling teams they are only interested in trading Abreu for top-of-the-rotation starting pitching. The second is that there is a major money imbalance. Ramirez has $57 million coming over the next three years. Abreu has two years, $30 million left on his deal. Both players can veto any trades.

The only way this trade could happen, then, is if the Red Sox were interested in trading a starting pitcher along with Ramirez, AND evening out all the money.

Comments

[enrico]

While I'm not drooling over a Bobby4Manny straight up deal. I still think this would be a good move if we only had to pay Abreu's salary for him.

Maybe Manny's nonchalance wouldn't help the Phils, I see that, but it can't be any worse than Bobby's attitude. And Manny comes up with big hits in key spots, maybe not Big Pappi caliber, but certainly a lot better than Abreu.

I don't understand the facination with Bobby Abreu.

I also agree that a stud pitcher is more important, just not as exciting as Manny.

[gr]

i don't agree, exactly. two more clutch hits in close games, against the astros or otherwise, gets us a wild card spot. we were very close with our best player all but invisible the last month of the season.

[That Dude]

I think this is Lucchino feeding false info to a Post writer, trying to make Omar Minaya offer up more for Manny. Remember, within basbeall circles, Minaya isn't exactly considered that bright and his open lust for Manny over the past 18 months makes the Red Sox smart to plant these seeds of doubt.

[Oisin]

Could be onto something there, That Dude. They've still got money to burn.

The whole trade bobby thing still feels like a mutha of a hobson's choice. keep the production from the outfield, or lose it for a gamble on victorino, a better starting rotation and the salary dump? I'm loath to give up the hits, the obp and the homerun unless we get 7-8 innings of good pitcher every fifth day, plus a prospect. And I'm okay with him staying on for the first half of the season whilst we work out all the other kinks, and use him to improve at the trade deadline.

As good as the thome deal was, I still wish we got a ready-to-go starting pitcher out of it. then we could have traded bobby to improve the line-up come deadline time.

[MPN]

I agree that this whole situation stinks of showmanship. Manny puts his condo on the market. Lucchino, et al, put out a story about an Abreu for Manny straight up trade to get Omar to up his offer.... which really is only meant to tell the Mariners and Angels that lowballed offers are not acceptable.... The only way this would make sense for the Phillies is if they could flip Manny immediately to the Mariners or Angels... or else create a monster three-way deal with a lot of prospects (Wood, etc.) and bad contracts (Beltre?) moving around the map.

[EG]

All -

I've been reading all along - just not posting as of late. I'm not for this trade. The PHILS need to focus - repeat after me - STARTING PITCHING!!!!!!!!!! I do like Gillick so far - let's hope this is all just for show..:)

[Cliff]

Wait...so how about a starting pitcher?

[MPN]

Cliff: Agreed. I wouldn't trade Abreu at all unless we get a "1" pitcher.... unless we could get a "2"-"3" plus a closer, plus something else. Eddie Guardado + ??? + ???. Not sure.

Jayson Stark's Rumblings (http://tinyurl.com/bzou2) & Grumblings and Insider Rs&Gs (http://tinyurl.com/af9a9) are chock-full-o Phillies stuff... including very positive things about Mathieson, Gio Gonzalez, and Daniel Haigwood. And also talk about Danys Baez... which is surprising because I remembered reading last summer that Charlie begged Wade off Danys.

[gr]

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/13303877.htm

i'm weary of this signing unless he's also a better playcaller than lieberthal. lieber probably ain't too happy about it.