Phillies Team Retrospective: 1985

Twenty years ago, the Phillies were a team trying to get younger from within, but were falling farther into the depths of the National League basement.

By Martin Smith / Beerleaguer senior correspondent
In the modern era of free agency, it really became tough to be a Phillies fans 20 years ago.

In 1985, the Phillies had just finished the season 75-87, 5th place, 26 games back of the NL East winning Cardinals. It was hard to believe that only two years earlier, they had won the National League. The 1983 Phils were an old team, which included Pete Rose, Joe Morgan, Tony Perez, Steve Carlton and Tug McGraw.

By 1985, they were making a go with a lineup that included a number of young players under rookie manager John Felske. For all the pop still remaining, this was a team that could not hit a baseball. They ranked second last in the league in team batting with .245. The primary reason why was an unheard of number of wiffs, striking out 1,095 times, 132 more than the next highest team.

Two homegrown bats performed well. Mike Schmidt led the team with a 277 BA and 33 homers, and young Juan Samuel hit .264, with 19 homers and stole 53 bases.

But the young players who were supposed to help rebuild from within were producing lukewarm results at best. This group included Rick Schu, Jeff Stone and the notoriously bad Steve Jeltz, who hit .189.   

What could have been
It wasn’t supposed to happen like this. The Phillies had a tremendous farm system in the early ’80s and were signing superb talent from the Dominican Republic. 

During the ’85-’86 offseason, I remember wondering what kind of team the Phils could have had if they didn't make so many bad trades of young talent. 

The following lineup is comprised entirely from homegrown talent drafted and groomed in the Phillies minor league system. Keep in mind their positions are just theoretical.

1B Julio Franco, CLE. Julio hit .288 with 183 hits. This would be one of the last years he hit under .300, culminating with the batting title in 1991.

2B Juan Samuel, PHL. Speed and power, as listed above.

SS Ryne Sandberg, CHI. Ryne was just starting on his path to a Hall of Fame career, hitting .305, 26 HRs with 54 stolen bases.

3B Mike Schmidt, PHL. Hall of Fame.

LF George Bell, TOR. Jorge, then later George with a "G", hit .275 with 28 HRs, just warming up for his AL MVP season of 1987.

CF Bob Dernier, CHI. Bobby wasn't great, but he caught the ball and stole 31 bases.

RF Lonnie Smith, KC. Lonnie was not the best at catching the ball, and 1985 was a down year, hitting .257. He hit .321 in '83 and later, .315 in '89, but Lonnie did steal 52 bases and got a World Series ring in ’85 with the Royals.

C Keith Moreland, CHI. Moreland hit .307 with 106 RBIs. In fairness, the ’85 Phils had three other young catchers, Ozzie Virgil, John Russell, and Darren Daulton.

P Kevin Gross, PHL. 15-13, 3.41 ERA.

P Charles Hudson, PHL. 8-13, 3.78 ERA.

RP Don Carmen, PHL. 9-4, 2.08 ERA

RP Mark Davis, SF. Davis went 5-12, 3.54 ERA with SF, not quite like his Cy Young season in 1989. 

So what's the point of all this?  Nothing really. Maybe to realize, once again, that it’s never easy being a Phillies’ fan. The 1985 season was not a total loss, however. On June 11, they beat the Mets 26-7.

Comments

[Don Eminizer]

This is an excellent blog...& actually is a fun excercise you can do with almost any team if you search it's history...Seems all teams make a deal with the devil (Not George Steinbrenner, the other one) to take one last shot with an old team before rebuilding...Try these...'89 Orioles (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BAL/1989.shtml) including: Schilling, Harnisch, Steve Finley, Cal Jr., Mickey Tettleton, Brady Anderson, and Rene Gonzales...Or the '92 Indians (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CLE/1992.shtml)including: Albert Belle, Kenny Lofton, C. Baerga, S. Alomar, Mark Whitten, Thome, Nagy, Mesa...Even the first year Rockies (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/COL/1993.shtml) in '93...Including: Joe Girardi, Galarraga, V. Castilla, D. Bichette, Dale Murphy (?), & Bruce Hurst...

[Deanna]

If they'd kept Julio Franco, they'd still have him now!

On the other hand, then they wouldn't have gotten Von Hayes. I was a big Von Hayes fan as a kid.

I do agree that trading Ryne Sandberg is one of those "worst trade in history" sorts of trades, though, and there was a lot of good talent that went out of Philly on the way to making those terrible late-80's seasons.

[Geoff]

I've often thought about that. What could have been???? Oh well. One thing though. Mark Davis and Don Carmen were relievers in 85. They'dve been better off sticking with Charles Hudson (probably the first time that phrase has ever been uttered anywhere). By going with strictly homegrown talent, they may not have been much better. Carmen was one of their better relievers, so putting him in the rotation over John Denny or Shane Rawley would've been a big hit. Mark Davis over the other would've made it even larger. Sure, the offense would have been fantastic been better, but the pitching would've been terrible. The key would've been keeping as many of or all those hitters and adding the pitchers they did have. Sure, Lefty went 1-8, but he had a 3.33 ERA. That wouldn't have happened with all those bats. It probably would've been reversered.

[J. Weitzel]

Thanks, Geoff. I gave Carmen and Davis RP designations to represent bullpen for the time being. I'll see if Martin wants to round out the rotation and rest of the pen.

[Brian Michael]

I theorotically wouldnt have minded Greg Gross roaming the '85 outfield more regularly. I was 4 in 1985 and remembered in my first ever pack of Topps getting one of his cards. I thought it was the funniest thing ever that his name was "Gross" and still do today. He's Batavia's hitting coach now.

[MPN]

Don't forget that Dave Stewart.... yes THAT Dave Stewart... also pitched 4 games for the 1985 Phillies. He was no Glenn Wilson or John Wockenfuss... and certainly no #541... err Von Hayes.

[J. Weitzel]

Could have been sweet, but unfortunately I can't count Dave Stewart on this list because he wasn't a product of the Phils farm system. He was originally drafted by the Dodgers and traded to the Phils in 1985.

[MPN]

JW: Yes, point taken. Just throwing that factoid out there in the spirit of the `85 theme.

[Geoff]

I remember when Stewart was in his prime with Oakland, looking at some old Topps cards and seeing him in a Phillies uniform. I couldn't believe it. But like you guys point out, they weren't the only team that gave up on him. At least we can take solace in that.